I am not mistaken. The assumption that the source material is correct is inane.
Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2010 05:23:20 AM
HBO's ROME is supported by a wide variety of contemporary and well-supported sources. Very few things in the show are directly contradicted by evidence that we have.
300 is based loosely on the "histories" of Herodotus, who is universally known to be unreliable. This is an understatement of epic proportions. This is the historian who references enormous gold-digging ants (Histories 3.102-105).
And even so, there are countless contradictions between the movie and history. The concept of Spartans fighting for freedom. The disdain of Spartans for "boy-loving" Athenians (they called them boy-lovers, yes, but fellatio was a rite of passage for a Spartan youth). The depiction of the ephors, who were in reality elected officials (that you can call this even remotely close to a source text is laughable). The depiction of Ephialtes. The depiction of the Persian army. The depiction of damned near everything. The Spartans aren't wearing proper armor, by the way. Those helmets are Corinthian. They should be wearing bronze cuirasses.
Xerxes. Everything about Xerxes. You do not have to be a classicist to realize this. Go to a museum. Look at a picture of a Persian king. Speaking of kings... there were two Spartan kings at a time. Poor Leotychidas didn't even get a cameo.
The list goes on. It doesn't snow in the southern Peloponnese. 7000 Greeks fought at the battle, among which were included Ionian slaves. You hold a spear above your head, not at your side. The phalanx held a line formation, not a wedge, and never breaks formation. There was an ongoing sea battle at the time. Grenades generally do not figure in ancient warfare (read: never). The rhinoceros has never been domesticated. The story of Aristodemus--I'm sorry, "Dilios"--who was exiled from society and shamed, not given command at Platea. That whole bit about Leonidas hurting Xerxes? Not so much. The "tortoise" formation was a Roman invention, several centuries later.
I don't particularly enjoy movies that end with people telling me that Spartans mocking Athenians for pederasty is anything close to historically accurate, no.
If you think that historical accuracy is irrelevant, fine. But don't attempt to equate a brilliantly researched and produced show with mind candy.
EDIT: While I say ROME is rarely contradicted by sources, I am not saying that everything in it is true. However, I am fine with embellishment when sources are weak, which is why all of the complaints above are in direct opposition to actual historical evidence.
300 is based loosely on the "histories" of Herodotus, who is universally known to be unreliable. This is an understatement of epic proportions. This is the historian who references enormous gold-digging ants (Histories 3.102-105).
And even so, there are countless contradictions between the movie and history. The concept of Spartans fighting for freedom. The disdain of Spartans for "boy-loving" Athenians (they called them boy-lovers, yes, but fellatio was a rite of passage for a Spartan youth). The depiction of the ephors, who were in reality elected officials (that you can call this even remotely close to a source text is laughable). The depiction of Ephialtes. The depiction of the Persian army. The depiction of damned near everything. The Spartans aren't wearing proper armor, by the way. Those helmets are Corinthian. They should be wearing bronze cuirasses.
Xerxes. Everything about Xerxes. You do not have to be a classicist to realize this. Go to a museum. Look at a picture of a Persian king. Speaking of kings... there were two Spartan kings at a time. Poor Leotychidas didn't even get a cameo.
The list goes on. It doesn't snow in the southern Peloponnese. 7000 Greeks fought at the battle, among which were included Ionian slaves. You hold a spear above your head, not at your side. The phalanx held a line formation, not a wedge, and never breaks formation. There was an ongoing sea battle at the time. Grenades generally do not figure in ancient warfare (read: never). The rhinoceros has never been domesticated. The story of Aristodemus--I'm sorry, "Dilios"--who was exiled from society and shamed, not given command at Platea. That whole bit about Leonidas hurting Xerxes? Not so much. The "tortoise" formation was a Roman invention, several centuries later.
Also, if you feel that historical accuracy is necessary for a work of fantasy to be entertaining, then you must be entertained rarely.
I don't particularly enjoy movies that end with people telling me that Spartans mocking Athenians for pederasty is anything close to historically accurate, no.
If you think that historical accuracy is irrelevant, fine. But don't attempt to equate a brilliantly researched and produced show with mind candy.
EDIT: While I say ROME is rarely contradicted by sources, I am not saying that everything in it is true. However, I am fine with embellishment when sources are weak, which is why all of the complaints above are in direct opposition to actual historical evidence.
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla
Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel
*MySmiley*
~Camilla
Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel
*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Ghavrel on 19/01/2010 at 05:38:01 AM
Spartacus: Blood and Sand starts this week...on Starz...but who's going to watch?
19/01/2010 12:07:46 AM
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Rome and 300 really shouldn't ever be put in the same sentence.
19/01/2010 01:20:16 AM
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You are mistaken. Both films/shows were close to their source material..
19/01/2010 02:29:00 AM
- 409 Views
I am not mistaken. The assumption that the source material is correct is inane.
19/01/2010 05:23:20 AM
- 490 Views
The source of 300 is the graphic novel, not history
19/01/2010 11:35:59 AM
- 443 Views
And the graphic novels gets its source material/distorts its source material from where?
19/01/2010 04:58:30 PM
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The question is what the film aimed to be
19/01/2010 07:45:18 PM
- 420 Views
And, as I said, that places it in a much lower league of quality than ROME, which was very accurate. *NM*
20/01/2010 04:17:57 AM
- 180 Views
You do realize that the Graphic Novel is a work of fiction, right?
20/01/2010 05:24:27 PM
- 398 Views
300 is deliberately supposed to be non-historical, but this message got lost somewhere along the way
21/01/2010 01:47:50 AM
- 426 Views
That was such a stupid potential argument that I gave him the benefit of the doubt and discarded it.
20/01/2010 04:17:10 AM
- 380 Views
Sounds good, as long as it doesn't look like Xena or Hercules *NM*
19/01/2010 11:34:23 AM
- 181 Views
I'll watch it for the soft core porn value. Full frontal male nudity! The gays will love it.
19/01/2010 05:00:27 PM
- 407 Views