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Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM

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Look at from this point of view. When the first move came out all the little boys went home wanting to be either Hans or Luke and al the little girls went home wanting to be Leia.

And we want a repeat of this? We want boys to only idolize men, and girls to only idolize women?
She was a strong confident women who has no problem speaking her mind and did not wait around waiting to be rescued by men but instead played her own critical role in the story. Hell she even stood up to the wookie tha had Finn cowering. No one would say the Leia took a back seat to Luke or Hans but the same cannot be said for Finn the sidekick. I guess in world of social justice girl power trumps racial equality but in the end little boys did not go home wanting to be Finn, they went home still wanting to be Luke.

Firstly, lets say this is true (though as Legolas argued, it doesn't really hold up)... what makes you think little boys can't go home wanting to be like Rey? Nothing about her role is fundamentally male or female anyway. Not even her costume. She just happens to be female. Her femininity doesn't permeate her story.

The problem people have had with the way Hollywood did this is that it was always a male in the lead. Its not that girls can't look up to male leads and idolize them. But when you only show men doing certain things, you set up the expectation that girls shouldn't bother with those activities.


As for helping the plight of women and minorities that is just flawed logic.

Indeed. No one is saying this will help the plight of women and minorities today. This is NOT a solution that has a current impact.
I fully support making a main character black, the original series did it to a degree.

Luke was black?
Of the major black characters in the series Finn, the former sanitation worker, is the weakest and I am not sure how making the black man the little buddy to the white girl helps minorities.

The idea that he's a "little buddy" is absurd. They're shown to be friends, not boss and underling. For another, if you truly don't get the cultural import of a friendship, and possible romantic relationship between a black man and white woman in which both are shown to be strong independent characters, I'm not sure you've been paying much attention to the narrative on such relationships in the United States.
I do object to the idea that new white characters can only be bad guys

The exact same thing was true of the Original Trilogy. The main heroes and villains were ALL White. This is just not true here, and I do hope they have people of color as villains too, but if you think the narrative of this story is "white men are always evil", neither Han Solo, nor Luke, or even Kylo Ren make any sense.
and need to look as much like Nazis as possible, make sure you zoom in on those blue eyes and blonde hair. I am sure that was no accident fro the Jewish Abrams.

Exactly one person can be accused of looking like a Nazi. And he reports to a quite non-human looking Supreme Leader.

The Nazi undertones to the Empire were always thee. Yes, it is a little ham handed that one of them now looks a little too Nazi, but that doesn't mean this Nazi parallel was invented from scratch.


The idea that portraying women as a match for men in close combat is not just misguided but it is down right stupid and has the exact opposite affect that is intended. In the real world when girls fight boys they get hurt and they can be hurt badly. Anything that makes it OK for a man to fight a women like she is a man does not help women and presenting women as equals to men in combat does exactly that.

You do know these things aren't fixed, right? There isn't some fundamental law of nature that makes human females on average weaker than human males, and the amount by which that differs isn't fixed either. If girls are pushed to develop their upper body strength from an early age, that WILL change.

No one is asking that we enforce some such program. But we should certainly be above the idea that girls SHOULDN'T do this. We shouldn't tag women who lift and increase their upper body strength as unfeminine. Or men who don't as emasculated. A character like Rey might, in some small way, encourage girls to try out activities that are traditionally reserved for "boys". Maybe a teenager will lift, or go rock climbing, or get sweaty at the gym, because Rey does some version of all that.


Have message but please keep the misguided social justice from running the story line. It is almost as bad the product marking driving the plot in the prequel.

There is nothing misguided about this, given that the Force has no gendered bias that we know of. And it certainly isn't anywhere close to Social Justice. It is, at best, not sticking to the ludicrous patriarchal assumption that males always lead.
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Star Wars : The Force Awakens review (spoiler free) - 17/12/2015 09:18:26 AM 2178 Views
Love your review! I'm seeing it tomorrow night at 9pm. Can't wait! *NM* - 18/12/2015 01:20:16 AM 719 Views
Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM 1264 Views
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Agreed, Driver did a great job..... - 19/12/2015 05:46:44 AM 1038 Views
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Re: Replies and spoilers - 21/12/2015 06:31:54 PM 1338 Views
The books... - 21/12/2015 09:05:28 PM 1111 Views
Re: The books... - 22/12/2015 03:12:52 AM 1045 Views
In general agreement ** potential Spoilers ** - 19/12/2015 06:06:23 AM 1005 Views
There are books? - 19/12/2015 11:19:07 AM 1068 Views
Re: There are books? - 19/12/2015 05:41:45 PM 1106 Views
So Darth Plagieus might still be in? Sweet. - 20/12/2015 04:44:21 AM 989 Views
Palpatine's master? - 20/12/2015 02:25:45 PM 986 Views
I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 09:47:16 PM 1008 Views
Re: I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 10:05:49 PM 1095 Views
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same one. - 24/12/2015 12:05:57 AM 995 Views
Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 19/12/2015 06:07:16 PM 1085 Views
I don't think any of that had to be explained. - 19/12/2015 12:16:07 PM 972 Views
I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM 1088 Views
Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 06:04:43 AM 1149 Views
Re: Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 08:06:40 PM 951 Views
Re: I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 20/12/2015 10:07:36 AM 1064 Views
Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM 1220 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:11:30 PM 1084 Views
You're making me reply to two posts - 18/12/2015 03:29:23 PM 1095 Views
The death (spoilers) - 22/12/2015 10:30:05 PM 1057 Views
Re: You're making me reply to two posts - 29/12/2015 05:24:39 AM 1092 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 29/12/2015 05:19:54 AM 1048 Views
I have tickets for tonight - 18/12/2015 04:47:17 PM 1042 Views
Arbrams impressed me(spoiler free) - 19/12/2015 05:17:42 AM 1170 Views
'Revenge of the Sith' (3rd prequel) was actually a decent movie - 18/12/2015 10:46:52 PM 1084 Views
They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 18/12/2015 11:38:36 PM 1030 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 12:19:10 AM 1179 Views
Well - 19/12/2015 05:53:56 AM 1003 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 07:46:06 AM 1189 Views
people forget they were kids movies *NM* - 19/12/2015 01:17:10 AM 697 Views
Yeah, people take the whole 'Star Wars' thing too seriously - 19/12/2015 02:59:29 AM 1084 Views
BTW, Daniel Craig is totally forgiven for Spectre. He was a Stormtrooper (spoilers for role) - 18/12/2015 11:40:44 PM 978 Views
Yip that's true *NM* - 19/12/2015 07:46:59 AM 674 Views
And Simon Pegg was the alien who ran the trading post Rey always went to *NM* - 20/12/2015 02:30:59 PM 776 Views
I got the impression he was actually her boss or contractor - 28/12/2015 12:48:48 PM 1133 Views
Pretty much... - 29/12/2015 12:08:58 AM 1042 Views
Absolutely, yes *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:54:52 PM 731 Views
Just saw it! Holy shit, shit, shit, shit.....it was amazing. - 19/12/2015 05:38:44 AM 1049 Views
Loved it (Spoilers) - 19/12/2015 06:16:54 AM 1013 Views
Fantastic characters, great entertainment, no originality, no logic - 29/12/2015 03:33:43 AM 1047 Views
Your Mom has no originality or logic! *NM* - 29/12/2015 11:39:41 AM 725 Views
JJ Abrams should be able to do better than my Mom - 30/12/2015 04:20:54 AM 973 Views
I gave it a B+ overall but I think the characters are its weak spot - 29/12/2015 05:08:15 PM 902 Views
JJ Abrams' movies are character-driven, Lucas' movies are plot-driven - 30/12/2015 04:38:49 AM 964 Views
Lucas has created some of the most iconics chacters in movie history ? - 31/12/2015 02:29:02 PM 954 Views
So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 10:11:01 AM 1046 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 07:10:56 PM 1358 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 09:24:08 PM 1003 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 31/12/2015 04:58:24 PM 959 Views
It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 30/12/2015 09:26:10 PM 1001 Views
Why is time for female lead and why does the lef think subtraction is the answer to inequality? - 04/01/2016 01:37:37 PM 823 Views
Because the six other movies had zero female Jedis of any importance? - 04/01/2016 05:58:25 PM 1040 Views
Just another check the box movie, then - 04/01/2016 06:02:41 PM 924 Views
Oh, come on. You're really going to complain just because they had a woman and a black guy? - 04/01/2016 11:48:52 PM 1023 Views
They are talking abou tmakin ght Gunslinger black - 05/01/2016 02:05:36 PM 950 Views
Yeah, Star Wars is just part of the larger trend. It can't be viewed in a vacuum (pun intended). - 05/01/2016 02:38:34 PM 922 Views
That's not really what I said, you'll note. - 05/01/2016 07:48:08 PM 1132 Views
I don't think it was Disney's business acumen. - 06/01/2016 06:59:46 PM 1203 Views
Wow. That's... sad. - 06/01/2016 09:32:37 PM 1039 Views
Re: Wow. That's... sad. - 08/01/2016 03:08:58 AM 1025 Views
I am noit sure how well that 7-12 girl demographic will work in merchandising - 08/01/2016 06:30:47 PM 1023 Views
Your premise is entirely wrong. - 12/01/2016 05:53:26 AM 962 Views
Actually, they do have a major character who is Latino. - 12/01/2016 07:15:31 PM 1002 Views
The culture wars are just about blacks and feminists. - 13/01/2016 02:31:20 AM 998 Views
All that Paul said - 17/01/2016 05:13:59 PM 1645 Views
LOL - 05/01/2016 06:33:50 PM 952 Views
Funny that people use strwmen arguments to make themsleves feel smart - 08/01/2016 04:22:22 PM 1046 Views
It's not a straw man - 08/01/2016 04:52:03 PM 1005 Views
it was story of a father and son so it makes sense to male leads - 04/01/2016 06:59:33 PM 881 Views
Male leads, sure, but it wasn't just the leads. - 04/01/2016 11:28:12 PM 1008 Views
Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 05/01/2016 05:55:51 PM 983 Views
I don't see how it makes sense to compare their roles, but Finn is certainly plenty strong. - 05/01/2016 07:38:05 PM 976 Views
Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 02:52:58 PM 1014 Views
Re: Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 05:50:08 PM 994 Views
I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 02:49:44 PM 970 Views
Re: I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 03:26:34 PM 1013 Views
The reall issue it looks like Luke sucked as Jedi master - 07/01/2016 07:14:31 PM 953 Views
Sorry, no. - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM 1032 Views
What a load of crap. - 08/01/2016 10:29:35 AM 929 Views
I only partially agree - 08/01/2016 03:27:10 PM 987 Views
Sorry if science isn't your thing but no what I said is true - 09/01/2016 11:49:15 PM 1101 Views
Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM 909 Views
Well said *NM* - 05/01/2016 12:01:25 PM 743 Views
Because it isn't "subtraction"... - 08/01/2016 09:33:24 AM 957 Views
Of course it is - 09/01/2016 10:19:53 PM 938 Views
Okay so about the big bad guy *spoilers* - 05/01/2016 06:27:37 PM 1024 Views
I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:07:26 PM 1016 Views
Re: I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:42:42 PM 939 Views
What speaks against is for me... - 05/01/2016 10:57:44 PM 1358 Views
Re: What speaks against is for me... - 06/01/2016 10:08:35 AM 1096 Views
It's all good stuff, like the first book in a good sci-fi/fantasy trilogy! - 07/01/2016 06:44:45 AM 1044 Views
I think it's pretty obvious... - 17/01/2016 07:43:19 AM 1079 Views

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