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Sorry, no. Legolas Send a noteboard - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM

View original postEscaping from the Strom Troopers is about the only decision he makes. I will give you the fact the he was able to hold his own for a little while in light saber battle against a trained sith which makes no sense at all. I am not saying he a complete wimp but there is no argument about who was leading and it wasn't him.

I agree that Rey tended to take the lead, and if you insist you can say that makes him a sidekick, but by that definition just about everybody is a sidekick. When Rey isn't there, the whole section where they discuss the superweapon and the plans to go disable it, he takes plenty of initiative and even takes the huge gamble of pretending he knows exactly how to disable everything, just to get a chance to find Rey. Which I quite agree is absurd as the plot goes, but it certainly isn't an indication of a weak character or follower mentality.
View original postNo I would have called him a weak character compared to first series regardless of who was with him. I think Rey was a poorly developed character. The best character and most likeable character was the pilot and it would have been a better movie if they had left Finn out and just had him.

Well, I do agree Rey needs to be fleshed out more as a character, and I'm not so sure they'll pull it off convincingly in the next movie. And the pilot is a flashier kind of hero, to be sure, but you don't see him going out of his comfort zone as easily as Finn does. I think at this stage it would've been impossible to make the fans compare any new character favourably to Luke and Leia and Han, but fine, call him a weak character if you must. It still doesn't show how they made him 'weaker' than he should have been - not in the battles, not in his decision-making, not in any way that I can see. Weaker than Rey, sure, but that's just because they made Rey unnaturally strong as some kind of new Anakin-like superhero of the Force.
View original postThat is because I was not referring Kylo Ren, he was not really the bad guy but was an angry and troubled victim. General Hox is the real bad guy. Like his grandfather before him Ren will be redeemed. Look at the scenes of Hox addressing his troops and tell me Nazi doesn't come to mind.

Sorry, you're right - wasn't thinking of that scene when I wrote that. That was definitely a shameless copy of the famous Nazi propaganda movie by Leni Riefenstahl. Not the first time in modern blockbusters, either - the Two Towers movie had Saruman in a basically identical scene.

Stealing the Nazi propaganda scene was lazy in the extreme and did annoy me for that reason, but I really don't think it makes sense to see it as racially motivated.


View original postThe first series accomplished and still gave positive heroes to little white boys. Take a look at the movies out recently and explain again how there is a lack of strong females characters. Hunger Games, Harry Potter, the latest Avengers, Fury Road, The 100 ect ect. There is a better argument to be made for a lack of strong black roles but since blacks only make about 15% of the country I think the argument could be made that they are represented correctly. Hispanics on the other hand make up a larger percentage of population and the main Hispanic character had a limited role despite the fact he was one of the strongest characters

Haven't seen all of those, but HP's and the Avengers' heroines are in supporting roles. Hunger Games and now the new Star Wars are more uncommon than you'd think. And to be honest I'm not really thinking about population ratios in the USA in this whole thing - and neither is Disney. The new movie has attracted more viewers outside the USA than inside it, and I suspect the same was true for the earlier movies. The big movie studios have long started thinking globally, at least for this kind of movie.
View original postSorry but that is horse shit. Men on average are 50% stronger than women, have more capacity and more blood cells. Like other species with sexual dimorphism similar to humans the male of the species is designed to be able fight to defend his right to breed and to survive when he is pushed put out the troop. The female is designed to give birth and hold status in the troop. The reality is only a tiny percentage of females can hold their own against even average males and none can hold their own against the more elite males and no amount of wishful thinking or bad ass chicks in the movies is going to change that. In the vast majority of female on male abuse cases the males was not fighting back or was attacked with a weapon.

We're not arguing about whether women should be admitted to the Marines here. None of your numbers detract from my basic point that there's no good moral reason to say that man A beating woman B is somehow more wrong than man A, or woman C of equal strength, beating man D who has precisely the same physical strength as woman B. Those scenarios are not all equally likely, but they are all equally wrong. You may still disagree with that of course, but that at least is my view and the view of modern feminists.

Regardless of that whole debate, I don't really think any woman will seriously take Star Wars as life advice when considering whether to try physically assaulting a much stronger man. It may however have an effect on a more subtle level of the woman being the most important and essential character of the story, not subservient in any way to any man.


View original postI have no problem with the lead being a women. Can you finally admit that they lessen the men to make the female lead more believable?

I'm glad you say that, but that particular paragraph did suggest otherwise. And no. I do agree that, firstly, Rey is clearly stronger than Finn in almost every way thanks to plot convenience and the Force, and secondly, neither is necessarily a particularly well-written or well-developed character so far (personally I do think they have potential). But neither of those things in any way proves your premise. Rey is a freak of nature - taking that as a basic premise, having Finn match up to her would've been precisely the opposite: making him equally freakishly strong just to avoid him being eclipsed by the woman.

And you know, as for believability, what Sidious said. Just to prove my Star Wars credentials I'll even quote Yoda himself: 'Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is.'

This message last edited by Legolas on 06/01/2016 at 06:56:38 PM
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Star Wars : The Force Awakens review (spoiler free) - 17/12/2015 09:18:26 AM 2167 Views
Love your review! I'm seeing it tomorrow night at 9pm. Can't wait! *NM* - 18/12/2015 01:20:16 AM 715 Views
Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM 1255 Views
I pretty much agree with most of that. - 18/12/2015 01:05:16 PM 1173 Views
Agreed, Driver did a great job..... - 19/12/2015 05:46:44 AM 1027 Views
Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 03:04:37 PM 1114 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 04:35:49 PM 962 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 05:51:29 PM 1006 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 04:44:36 AM 1017 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 07:37:39 PM 1002 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 19/12/2015 05:30:13 PM 1036 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 20/12/2015 09:51:22 AM 1189 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 21/12/2015 06:31:54 PM 1329 Views
The books... - 21/12/2015 09:05:28 PM 1101 Views
Re: The books... - 22/12/2015 03:12:52 AM 1031 Views
In general agreement ** potential Spoilers ** - 19/12/2015 06:06:23 AM 992 Views
There are books? - 19/12/2015 11:19:07 AM 1058 Views
Re: There are books? - 19/12/2015 05:41:45 PM 1096 Views
So Darth Plagieus might still be in? Sweet. - 20/12/2015 04:44:21 AM 975 Views
Palpatine's master? - 20/12/2015 02:25:45 PM 975 Views
I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 09:47:16 PM 997 Views
Re: I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 10:05:49 PM 1084 Views
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same one. - 24/12/2015 12:05:57 AM 984 Views
Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 19/12/2015 06:07:16 PM 1076 Views
I don't think any of that had to be explained. - 19/12/2015 12:16:07 PM 960 Views
I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM 1077 Views
Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 06:04:43 AM 1134 Views
Re: Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 08:06:40 PM 940 Views
Re: I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 20/12/2015 10:07:36 AM 1055 Views
Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM 1209 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:11:30 PM 1073 Views
You're making me reply to two posts - 18/12/2015 03:29:23 PM 1087 Views
The death (spoilers) - 22/12/2015 10:30:05 PM 1040 Views
Re: You're making me reply to two posts - 29/12/2015 05:24:39 AM 1082 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 29/12/2015 05:19:54 AM 1036 Views
I have tickets for tonight - 18/12/2015 04:47:17 PM 1031 Views
Arbrams impressed me(spoiler free) - 19/12/2015 05:17:42 AM 1156 Views
'Revenge of the Sith' (3rd prequel) was actually a decent movie - 18/12/2015 10:46:52 PM 1072 Views
They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 18/12/2015 11:38:36 PM 1016 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 12:19:10 AM 1168 Views
Well - 19/12/2015 05:53:56 AM 987 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 07:46:06 AM 1176 Views
people forget they were kids movies *NM* - 19/12/2015 01:17:10 AM 696 Views
Yeah, people take the whole 'Star Wars' thing too seriously - 19/12/2015 02:59:29 AM 1074 Views
BTW, Daniel Craig is totally forgiven for Spectre. He was a Stormtrooper (spoilers for role) - 18/12/2015 11:40:44 PM 970 Views
Yip that's true *NM* - 19/12/2015 07:46:59 AM 670 Views
And Simon Pegg was the alien who ran the trading post Rey always went to *NM* - 20/12/2015 02:30:59 PM 774 Views
I got the impression he was actually her boss or contractor - 28/12/2015 12:48:48 PM 1121 Views
Pretty much... - 29/12/2015 12:08:58 AM 1034 Views
Absolutely, yes *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:54:52 PM 727 Views
Just saw it! Holy shit, shit, shit, shit.....it was amazing. - 19/12/2015 05:38:44 AM 1036 Views
Loved it (Spoilers) - 19/12/2015 06:16:54 AM 1000 Views
Fantastic characters, great entertainment, no originality, no logic - 29/12/2015 03:33:43 AM 1036 Views
Your Mom has no originality or logic! *NM* - 29/12/2015 11:39:41 AM 720 Views
JJ Abrams should be able to do better than my Mom - 30/12/2015 04:20:54 AM 959 Views
I gave it a B+ overall but I think the characters are its weak spot - 29/12/2015 05:08:15 PM 890 Views
JJ Abrams' movies are character-driven, Lucas' movies are plot-driven - 30/12/2015 04:38:49 AM 948 Views
Lucas has created some of the most iconics chacters in movie history ? - 31/12/2015 02:29:02 PM 945 Views
So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 10:11:01 AM 1035 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 07:10:56 PM 1350 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 09:24:08 PM 992 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 31/12/2015 04:58:24 PM 945 Views
It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 30/12/2015 09:26:10 PM 989 Views
Why is time for female lead and why does the lef think subtraction is the answer to inequality? - 04/01/2016 01:37:37 PM 813 Views
Because the six other movies had zero female Jedis of any importance? - 04/01/2016 05:58:25 PM 1031 Views
Just another check the box movie, then - 04/01/2016 06:02:41 PM 913 Views
Oh, come on. You're really going to complain just because they had a woman and a black guy? - 04/01/2016 11:48:52 PM 1012 Views
They are talking abou tmakin ght Gunslinger black - 05/01/2016 02:05:36 PM 938 Views
Yeah, Star Wars is just part of the larger trend. It can't be viewed in a vacuum (pun intended). - 05/01/2016 02:38:34 PM 910 Views
That's not really what I said, you'll note. - 05/01/2016 07:48:08 PM 1117 Views
I don't think it was Disney's business acumen. - 06/01/2016 06:59:46 PM 1190 Views
Wow. That's... sad. - 06/01/2016 09:32:37 PM 1029 Views
Re: Wow. That's... sad. - 08/01/2016 03:08:58 AM 1013 Views
I am noit sure how well that 7-12 girl demographic will work in merchandising - 08/01/2016 06:30:47 PM 1009 Views
Your premise is entirely wrong. - 12/01/2016 05:53:26 AM 952 Views
Actually, they do have a major character who is Latino. - 12/01/2016 07:15:31 PM 985 Views
The culture wars are just about blacks and feminists. - 13/01/2016 02:31:20 AM 988 Views
All that Paul said - 17/01/2016 05:13:59 PM 1632 Views
LOL - 05/01/2016 06:33:50 PM 943 Views
Funny that people use strwmen arguments to make themsleves feel smart - 08/01/2016 04:22:22 PM 1031 Views
It's not a straw man - 08/01/2016 04:52:03 PM 996 Views
it was story of a father and son so it makes sense to male leads - 04/01/2016 06:59:33 PM 872 Views
Male leads, sure, but it wasn't just the leads. - 04/01/2016 11:28:12 PM 997 Views
Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 05/01/2016 05:55:51 PM 969 Views
I don't see how it makes sense to compare their roles, but Finn is certainly plenty strong. - 05/01/2016 07:38:05 PM 966 Views
Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 02:52:58 PM 971 Views
Re: Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 05:50:08 PM 982 Views
I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 02:49:44 PM 958 Views
Re: I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 03:26:34 PM 1003 Views
The reall issue it looks like Luke sucked as Jedi master - 07/01/2016 07:14:31 PM 943 Views
Sorry, no. - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM 1018 Views
What a load of crap. - 08/01/2016 10:29:35 AM 916 Views
I only partially agree - 08/01/2016 03:27:10 PM 979 Views
Sorry if science isn't your thing but no what I said is true - 09/01/2016 11:49:15 PM 1086 Views
Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM 894 Views
Well said *NM* - 05/01/2016 12:01:25 PM 741 Views
Because it isn't "subtraction"... - 08/01/2016 09:33:24 AM 943 Views
Of course it is - 09/01/2016 10:19:53 PM 928 Views
Okay so about the big bad guy *spoilers* - 05/01/2016 06:27:37 PM 1013 Views
I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:07:26 PM 1005 Views
Re: I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:42:42 PM 929 Views
What speaks against is for me... - 05/01/2016 10:57:44 PM 1349 Views
Re: What speaks against is for me... - 06/01/2016 10:08:35 AM 1080 Views
It's all good stuff, like the first book in a good sci-fi/fantasy trilogy! - 07/01/2016 06:44:45 AM 1034 Views
I think it's pretty obvious... - 17/01/2016 07:43:19 AM 1067 Views

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