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Re: Replies and spoilers Sidious Send a noteboard - 20/12/2015 09:51:22 AM

That wasn't my impression at all. Not sure what makes you believe Kylo Ren is around 18 y.o. when the actor is in his thirties and looks at best mid twenties? The Knights of Ren led by Kylo Ren killed Luke's Jedi students, after which Luke fled into hiding. My feeling from their scenes is that Solo and Leia have been estranged from each other for many years, not just a couple. Don't forget that it's passed into "legend" that Han Solo once fought in the Rebellion (not the "Resistance" to the point an orphan on Jakku know this. If Han had left 2 years ago, it wouldn't be part of his legend that he has left the Rebellion.... Let's consider also the possibility that Rey herself might have been a survivor of this attack on Luke's students, (as a Skywalker or not). She was abandoned on Jakku as a little girl. Even if Rey is a bit younger than her actress (who's 23), it's probably around 10 years ago and maybe closer to 15.

All in all, it's very likely that Ben Solo was born a few years at most after the battle Endor (and not when Leia was around 40...), and in his late teens or early twenties he turned against Luke and destroyed his attempt to resurrect the Jedi Order. We don't know for now how much Jedi training he got from Luke, and we know Snoke doesn't consider him fully trained in the dark side either... but it did look like Snoke had better uses for Kylo's time than train him anyway - but with the apparition of Rey he has now reconsidered his priorities...


Okay but remember that the age of the actors really means little, especially in movies. Most of the people in a highschool movie are 25 years old, but we're made to believe they're all 17. Hollywood tends to use older actors because true 18 year olds look very young and can't be taken seriously.

It's been 30 years, so Ren could be up to 30 years old in theory. Even if he is 25, he is a very young dark jedi. I think Darth Maul was at least in his mid 30's. When Leia asks Han to 'bring him home' I got more of an adolescent feeling from Ren. I just can't imagine them saying that about a 30 year old.

I'm not sure how long Ren has been under Snoke's wing, or how long he was under Luke's tutelage. I suspect he was about 10-12 when Leia sent him to Luke and by the time he was 18 he was reasonably trained and also decided to rebel.

If Han and Leia had Ben 5 years after Endor and he is now 20, then Han could have been estranged from Leia for 5 years. I also got a feeling that it's been a while. I was very sorry to see that they were no longer a couple.


My impression is that aside from being severely wounded and obviously in emotional turmoil during the duels Kylo Ren just isn't a very physicaly fit person nor close to a jock (I wouldn't be surprised he is more the geek or intellectual type), and one who may not train his lightsaber skills that much over the years, not really expecting to meet someone to fight against, aside from Luke. Apparently his lightsaber is pretty primitive - based on an "historical" design that still required 2 exhausts vents at the bottom for the extra heat. My guess is that it's the only design Kylo Ren managed to find, for lack of a "modern" Jedi or Sith model to copy.

Mmm, but this shouldn't make a difference. Force users have abilities that defy their bodies. Yoda was an old man and Sidious was hardly a 'jock' even when he was young. With the Force flowing through them they can perform impossible feats. I find it very unrealistic that anyone could stand against even a reasonably trained dark jedi. Finn was perhaps the most offensive of all, but at least Rey is Force sensitive. I agree that Ren was also significantly injured, but he really didn't need to even dignify Finn with a duel. He could have broken him with the Force alone.

I also, like you, think that Ren hasn't had much guidance regarding the dark side. It's possible that he was too young to have learned from Luke how to construct a Lighsaber - it always seems like the ultimate test, and his red blade does seem primitive. I like theories that I have read that Snoke is a Sith Holocron that Ren found (perhaps on Korriban) in his search to be trained in the dark side.


A lot of people also missed the clues placed in the movie by the screenwriters to explain why Finn and Rey could more or less handle their own. In Finn's case, he has full military training and it appears the stormtroopers are trained now (and equipped) to fight against lightsabers (why, when there was only Luke and a bunch of apprentices now decimated is another question...). He's not a force user and didn't last that long, but it explains why he wasn't inept. As for Rey, she's no stranger to sparring - on Jakku her weapon was a kind of quarterstaff doubling as a walking staff, and she was skilled with it. Add the Force to which she seems to have more an Anakin-like affinity than a slow emerging Luke-style one, the adrenalin, the survivor instincts she's no doubt developed to survive alone on Jakku to the facts Kylo Ren was in emotional and psychological turmoil and physically badly wounded, and it's not all that surprising the duels went the way they did.

Once again, this isn't really good enough for me. Finn was trained in combat but we don't know if he was only exposed to a blaster or if he has training in multiple weapons. We know that his desertion followed his very first battle. He also worked in sanitation, so his track record to match a dark Jedi isn't all that great. Even Luke managed to injure Vader in Empire with very basic training. It's possible.

As I've said in other posts Rey is probably a Force prodigy made to balance the Force again. I think the galaxy is heavily unbalanced towards the dark side and the Force never allows that. She's probably more powerful than is normal in such a young Force adept. It's also possible she's Luke's daughter or Ren's sister, in which case she is naturally powerful. Apart from that she is very skilled in many ways. People forget how often she solved problems in the movie.


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Star Wars : The Force Awakens review (spoiler free) - 17/12/2015 09:18:26 AM 2262 Views
Love your review! I'm seeing it tomorrow night at 9pm. Can't wait! *NM* - 18/12/2015 01:20:16 AM 758 Views
Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM 1325 Views
I pretty much agree with most of that. - 18/12/2015 01:05:16 PM 1264 Views
Agreed, Driver did a great job..... - 19/12/2015 05:46:44 AM 1126 Views
Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 03:04:37 PM 1201 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 04:35:49 PM 1063 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 05:51:29 PM 1104 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 04:44:36 AM 1125 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 07:37:39 PM 1087 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 19/12/2015 05:30:13 PM 1128 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 20/12/2015 09:51:22 AM 1270 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 21/12/2015 06:31:54 PM 1420 Views
The books... - 21/12/2015 09:05:28 PM 1206 Views
Re: The books... - 22/12/2015 03:12:52 AM 1142 Views
In general agreement ** potential Spoilers ** - 19/12/2015 06:06:23 AM 1088 Views
There are books? - 19/12/2015 11:19:07 AM 1150 Views
Re: There are books? - 19/12/2015 05:41:45 PM 1198 Views
So Darth Plagieus might still be in? Sweet. - 20/12/2015 04:44:21 AM 1085 Views
Palpatine's master? - 20/12/2015 02:25:45 PM 1089 Views
I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 09:47:16 PM 1090 Views
Re: I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 10:05:49 PM 1170 Views
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same one. - 24/12/2015 12:05:57 AM 1083 Views
Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 19/12/2015 06:07:16 PM 1174 Views
I don't think any of that had to be explained. - 19/12/2015 12:16:07 PM 1055 Views
I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM 1179 Views
Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 06:04:43 AM 1239 Views
Re: Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 08:06:40 PM 1037 Views
Re: I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 20/12/2015 10:07:36 AM 1154 Views
Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM 1321 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:11:30 PM 1169 Views
You're making me reply to two posts - 18/12/2015 03:29:23 PM 1179 Views
The death (spoilers) - 22/12/2015 10:30:05 PM 1152 Views
Re: You're making me reply to two posts - 29/12/2015 05:24:39 AM 1176 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 29/12/2015 05:19:54 AM 1146 Views
I have tickets for tonight - 18/12/2015 04:47:17 PM 1120 Views
Arbrams impressed me(spoiler free) - 19/12/2015 05:17:42 AM 1254 Views
'Revenge of the Sith' (3rd prequel) was actually a decent movie - 18/12/2015 10:46:52 PM 1174 Views
They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 18/12/2015 11:38:36 PM 1117 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 12:19:10 AM 1271 Views
Well - 19/12/2015 05:53:56 AM 1086 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 07:46:06 AM 1277 Views
people forget they were kids movies *NM* - 19/12/2015 01:17:10 AM 740 Views
Yeah, people take the whole 'Star Wars' thing too seriously - 19/12/2015 02:59:29 AM 1174 Views
BTW, Daniel Craig is totally forgiven for Spectre. He was a Stormtrooper (spoilers for role) - 18/12/2015 11:40:44 PM 1060 Views
Yip that's true *NM* - 19/12/2015 07:46:59 AM 719 Views
And Simon Pegg was the alien who ran the trading post Rey always went to *NM* - 20/12/2015 02:30:59 PM 807 Views
I got the impression he was actually her boss or contractor - 28/12/2015 12:48:48 PM 1216 Views
Pretty much... - 29/12/2015 12:08:58 AM 1139 Views
Absolutely, yes *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:54:52 PM 767 Views
Just saw it! Holy shit, shit, shit, shit.....it was amazing. - 19/12/2015 05:38:44 AM 1145 Views
Loved it (Spoilers) - 19/12/2015 06:16:54 AM 1086 Views
Fantastic characters, great entertainment, no originality, no logic - 29/12/2015 03:33:43 AM 1146 Views
Your Mom has no originality or logic! *NM* - 29/12/2015 11:39:41 AM 766 Views
JJ Abrams should be able to do better than my Mom - 30/12/2015 04:20:54 AM 1063 Views
I gave it a B+ overall but I think the characters are its weak spot - 29/12/2015 05:08:15 PM 956 Views
JJ Abrams' movies are character-driven, Lucas' movies are plot-driven - 30/12/2015 04:38:49 AM 1067 Views
Lucas has created some of the most iconics chacters in movie history ? - 31/12/2015 02:29:02 PM 1045 Views
So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 10:11:01 AM 1133 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 07:10:56 PM 1451 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 09:24:08 PM 1084 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 31/12/2015 04:58:24 PM 1052 Views
It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 30/12/2015 09:26:10 PM 1085 Views
Why is time for female lead and why does the lef think subtraction is the answer to inequality? - 04/01/2016 01:37:37 PM 901 Views
Because the six other movies had zero female Jedis of any importance? - 04/01/2016 05:58:25 PM 1136 Views
Just another check the box movie, then - 04/01/2016 06:02:41 PM 1020 Views
Oh, come on. You're really going to complain just because they had a woman and a black guy? - 04/01/2016 11:48:52 PM 1099 Views
They are talking abou tmakin ght Gunslinger black - 05/01/2016 02:05:36 PM 1026 Views
Yeah, Star Wars is just part of the larger trend. It can't be viewed in a vacuum (pun intended). - 05/01/2016 02:38:34 PM 1006 Views
That's not really what I said, you'll note. - 05/01/2016 07:48:08 PM 1222 Views
I don't think it was Disney's business acumen. - 06/01/2016 06:59:46 PM 1280 Views
Wow. That's... sad. - 06/01/2016 09:32:37 PM 1150 Views
Re: Wow. That's... sad. - 08/01/2016 03:08:58 AM 1113 Views
I am noit sure how well that 7-12 girl demographic will work in merchandising - 08/01/2016 06:30:47 PM 1101 Views
Your premise is entirely wrong. - 12/01/2016 05:53:26 AM 1028 Views
Actually, they do have a major character who is Latino. - 12/01/2016 07:15:31 PM 1084 Views
The culture wars are just about blacks and feminists. - 13/01/2016 02:31:20 AM 1090 Views
All that Paul said - 17/01/2016 05:13:59 PM 1727 Views
LOL - 05/01/2016 06:33:50 PM 1041 Views
Funny that people use strwmen arguments to make themsleves feel smart - 08/01/2016 04:22:22 PM 1144 Views
It's not a straw man - 08/01/2016 04:52:03 PM 1085 Views
it was story of a father and son so it makes sense to male leads - 04/01/2016 06:59:33 PM 977 Views
Male leads, sure, but it wasn't just the leads. - 04/01/2016 11:28:12 PM 1100 Views
Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 05/01/2016 05:55:51 PM 1080 Views
I don't see how it makes sense to compare their roles, but Finn is certainly plenty strong. - 05/01/2016 07:38:05 PM 1066 Views
Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 02:52:58 PM 1122 Views
Re: Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 05:50:08 PM 1072 Views
I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 02:49:44 PM 1060 Views
Re: I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 03:26:34 PM 1109 Views
The reall issue it looks like Luke sucked as Jedi master - 07/01/2016 07:14:31 PM 1046 Views
Sorry, no. - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM 1147 Views
What a load of crap. - 08/01/2016 10:29:35 AM 1009 Views
I only partially agree - 08/01/2016 03:27:10 PM 1093 Views
Sorry if science isn't your thing but no what I said is true - 09/01/2016 11:49:15 PM 1186 Views
Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM 1001 Views
Well said *NM* - 05/01/2016 12:01:25 PM 785 Views
Because it isn't "subtraction"... - 08/01/2016 09:33:24 AM 1044 Views
Of course it is - 09/01/2016 10:19:53 PM 1028 Views
Okay so about the big bad guy *spoilers* - 05/01/2016 06:27:37 PM 1078 Views
I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:07:26 PM 1111 Views
Re: I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:42:42 PM 1030 Views
What speaks against is for me... - 05/01/2016 10:57:44 PM 1432 Views
Re: What speaks against is for me... - 06/01/2016 10:08:35 AM 1195 Views
It's all good stuff, like the first book in a good sci-fi/fantasy trilogy! - 07/01/2016 06:44:45 AM 1122 Views
I think it's pretty obvious... - 17/01/2016 07:43:19 AM 1173 Views

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