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Also, SPOILER thoughts. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM

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This new addition to the Star Wars series feels everything like the original trilogy, and nothing like the prequels. To me this is a fantastic thing, as I consider the prequels to be horrible in general.

You're horrible in general.


Some people say that the movie felt rushed and should have been longer, but I didn't really get that feeling.

It was a bit rushed at the end, and the quest for Luke felt kind of tacked-on. I think if these people were doing Empire, they'd have had Lando and Chewie fly off and arrive at Jabba's palace with Lando trudging across the desert, to enter, presumably to apply for a guard's job, while staring longingly at Han's carbon frozen form. That was one misstep, I felt, solely to include the dramatic turn and appearance of Luke, and to justify all the announcements that Mark Hamill was in it. If they actually HAD to put Hamill in it, they could have had a flashback or something, and save the encounter with Rey for episode VIII.
The villains are brilliant, and you'll be constantly reminded of Darth Vader and Grand Moff Tarkin in so many scenes.

If they were whiny douchebags. I thought they were everything WoT fans hated the Forsaken being revealed to be. It seems like on the WoT boards, one of our main disagreements about the Forsaken was that you wanted them to be Vader, Palpatine or Maul, but they were actually Kylo Ren, and I was the only one who was fine with that. When he took off his mask, my first thought was "You know nothing about the Force, Jon Snow!"
The dark side is terrifying in this movie, and I do mean terrifying. It's good to see true evil making a come back to the series and not one-dimensional comic book villainy from the prequels. The Force is well explored - far more powerful and expressed than in the prequels, and about on a level with the original trilogy.
I don't get this at all. What did they do aside from holding back the blaster round? It seemed to me like they bucked previously established stuff. Luke's first conscious use of the Force was to make a difficult shot that was not far removed from what he is implied to have been subconsciously doing all the time. Rey, on the other hand, does the Jedi mind-trick with absolutely no training or experience whatsoever. Both she and Finn are way more adept with a light saber than anyone who touched one for the first time in this film has any business being. By contrast, Kylo Ren seems like the least competent Dark Side swordsman in the entire series. Even Obi-Wans' and Vader's first/last duel gave more of a sense of competence, as in two great masters who are so good that they only need to use economical feints and movements, and so far removed from the emotional conflict of their previous match-up that they feel no need for strenuous lunges and chops. Kylo Ren just flails around smashing inanimate objects, and killing non-resisting old men, while taking far too long to defeat a powerless stormtrooper and unable to overcome a total tyro.
An outstanding job, and one of the best movies of the year.

Yes.

9 out of 10.

Also yes.

Also, the lightsaber from episodes 3, 4 & 5 is apparently Star Wars' benevolent equivalent of the One Ring. It WANTS to be found!

Are we supposed to know or care who Max von Sydow's character is? It seems like he should have been connected to the old characters somehow.

I also wonder if killing Han was the right move. Historically, the acceptance of a Star Wars film seems to hinge a great deal on his appearance in it. On the other hand, it fits the pattern establish by I & IV of killing the mentor in a confrontation with the villain, despite his being the best or otherwise most impressive character, and thus preventing his overshadowing the protagonists in the upcoming films. I also wonder how they're going to justify Luke running off to hide instead of dealing with the problems his failure created. Maybe they won't, which might be really good for characterization, if done right. On the other hand, I thought this film exhibited, if any flaw, a tendency to gloss over stuff or skip past developments that might slow things down. That could really ruin Luke's return in the next film. I think it might have been better for him to be the sacrificial mentor in this one, but that might have overcrowded it with OT characters, or necessitated the reduction of Han's role. I can't see trading some Han for more Luke being an improvement. Also, while killing Luke might have been something that could be moved past on Kylo Ren's redemption arc, killing Han is a whole other order of magnitude. If anything is going to put him beyond redemption, in the eyes of characters AND fans, that was it. That means either his redemption must be REALLY earned, if done right, or that there is no redemption for him. Either of those stories could be really good going forward. Forgetting it to have Luke and Leia redeem & embrace him...not so much.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Star Wars : The Force Awakens review (spoiler free) - 17/12/2015 09:18:26 AM 2178 Views
Love your review! I'm seeing it tomorrow night at 9pm. Can't wait! *NM* - 18/12/2015 01:20:16 AM 719 Views
Some (relatively spoiler free) thoughts - 18/12/2015 12:27:22 PM 1264 Views
I pretty much agree with most of that. - 18/12/2015 01:05:16 PM 1180 Views
Agreed, Driver did a great job..... - 19/12/2015 05:46:44 AM 1037 Views
Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 03:04:37 PM 1123 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 04:35:49 PM 975 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 18/12/2015 05:51:29 PM 1013 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 04:44:36 AM 1033 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 29/12/2015 07:37:39 PM 1014 Views
Re: Replies and spoilers - 19/12/2015 05:30:13 PM 1046 Views
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Re: Replies and spoilers - 21/12/2015 06:31:54 PM 1338 Views
The books... - 21/12/2015 09:05:28 PM 1111 Views
Re: The books... - 22/12/2015 03:12:52 AM 1045 Views
In general agreement ** potential Spoilers ** - 19/12/2015 06:06:23 AM 1005 Views
There are books? - 19/12/2015 11:19:07 AM 1068 Views
Re: There are books? - 19/12/2015 05:41:45 PM 1106 Views
So Darth Plagieus might still be in? Sweet. - 20/12/2015 04:44:21 AM 989 Views
Palpatine's master? - 20/12/2015 02:25:45 PM 986 Views
I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 09:47:16 PM 1008 Views
Re: I mean the novel of that name. - 22/12/2015 10:05:49 PM 1094 Views
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same one. - 24/12/2015 12:05:57 AM 995 Views
Journey to Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 19/12/2015 06:07:16 PM 1085 Views
I don't think any of that had to be explained. - 19/12/2015 12:16:07 PM 972 Views
I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 19/12/2015 08:22:21 PM 1088 Views
Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 06:04:43 AM 1149 Views
Re: Some thoughts about the Force... - 20/12/2015 08:06:40 PM 951 Views
Re: I'm more or less in complete agreement (spoilers) - 20/12/2015 10:07:36 AM 1064 Views
Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:00:32 PM 1220 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 18/12/2015 01:11:30 PM 1084 Views
You're making me reply to two posts - 18/12/2015 03:29:23 PM 1095 Views
The death (spoilers) - 22/12/2015 10:30:05 PM 1057 Views
Re: You're making me reply to two posts - 29/12/2015 05:24:39 AM 1091 Views
Re: Also, SPOILER thoughts. - 29/12/2015 05:19:54 AM 1048 Views
I have tickets for tonight - 18/12/2015 04:47:17 PM 1041 Views
Arbrams impressed me(spoiler free) - 19/12/2015 05:17:42 AM 1169 Views
'Revenge of the Sith' (3rd prequel) was actually a decent movie - 18/12/2015 10:46:52 PM 1083 Views
They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 18/12/2015 11:38:36 PM 1030 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 12:19:10 AM 1178 Views
Well - 19/12/2015 05:53:56 AM 1003 Views
Re: They were all good. Internet geeks suck. - 19/12/2015 07:46:06 AM 1189 Views
people forget they were kids movies *NM* - 19/12/2015 01:17:10 AM 697 Views
Yeah, people take the whole 'Star Wars' thing too seriously - 19/12/2015 02:59:29 AM 1084 Views
BTW, Daniel Craig is totally forgiven for Spectre. He was a Stormtrooper (spoilers for role) - 18/12/2015 11:40:44 PM 978 Views
Yip that's true *NM* - 19/12/2015 07:46:59 AM 673 Views
And Simon Pegg was the alien who ran the trading post Rey always went to *NM* - 20/12/2015 02:30:59 PM 776 Views
I got the impression he was actually her boss or contractor - 28/12/2015 12:48:48 PM 1133 Views
Pretty much... - 29/12/2015 12:08:58 AM 1042 Views
Absolutely, yes *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:54:52 PM 731 Views
Just saw it! Holy shit, shit, shit, shit.....it was amazing. - 19/12/2015 05:38:44 AM 1049 Views
Loved it (Spoilers) - 19/12/2015 06:16:54 AM 1013 Views
Fantastic characters, great entertainment, no originality, no logic - 29/12/2015 03:33:43 AM 1046 Views
Your Mom has no originality or logic! *NM* - 29/12/2015 11:39:41 AM 725 Views
JJ Abrams should be able to do better than my Mom - 30/12/2015 04:20:54 AM 973 Views
I gave it a B+ overall but I think the characters are its weak spot - 29/12/2015 05:08:15 PM 901 Views
JJ Abrams' movies are character-driven, Lucas' movies are plot-driven - 30/12/2015 04:38:49 AM 964 Views
Lucas has created some of the most iconics chacters in movie history ? - 31/12/2015 02:29:02 PM 954 Views
So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 10:11:01 AM 1046 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 07:10:56 PM 1358 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 30/12/2015 09:24:08 PM 1003 Views
Re: So, Rey (Possible Spoilers ahead) - 31/12/2015 04:58:24 PM 959 Views
It was fun, and I look forward to the next ones, but can't say I was that wowed. - 30/12/2015 09:26:10 PM 1001 Views
Why is time for female lead and why does the lef think subtraction is the answer to inequality? - 04/01/2016 01:37:37 PM 823 Views
Because the six other movies had zero female Jedis of any importance? - 04/01/2016 05:58:25 PM 1040 Views
Just another check the box movie, then - 04/01/2016 06:02:41 PM 924 Views
Oh, come on. You're really going to complain just because they had a woman and a black guy? - 04/01/2016 11:48:52 PM 1023 Views
They are talking abou tmakin ght Gunslinger black - 05/01/2016 02:05:36 PM 950 Views
Yeah, Star Wars is just part of the larger trend. It can't be viewed in a vacuum (pun intended). - 05/01/2016 02:38:34 PM 922 Views
That's not really what I said, you'll note. - 05/01/2016 07:48:08 PM 1132 Views
I don't think it was Disney's business acumen. - 06/01/2016 06:59:46 PM 1203 Views
Wow. That's... sad. - 06/01/2016 09:32:37 PM 1039 Views
Re: Wow. That's... sad. - 08/01/2016 03:08:58 AM 1025 Views
I am noit sure how well that 7-12 girl demographic will work in merchandising - 08/01/2016 06:30:47 PM 1022 Views
Your premise is entirely wrong. - 12/01/2016 05:53:26 AM 961 Views
Actually, they do have a major character who is Latino. - 12/01/2016 07:15:31 PM 1002 Views
The culture wars are just about blacks and feminists. - 13/01/2016 02:31:20 AM 997 Views
All that Paul said - 17/01/2016 05:13:59 PM 1645 Views
LOL - 05/01/2016 06:33:50 PM 952 Views
Funny that people use strwmen arguments to make themsleves feel smart - 08/01/2016 04:22:22 PM 1046 Views
It's not a straw man - 08/01/2016 04:52:03 PM 1005 Views
it was story of a father and son so it makes sense to male leads - 04/01/2016 06:59:33 PM 881 Views
Male leads, sure, but it wasn't just the leads. - 04/01/2016 11:28:12 PM 1008 Views
Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 05/01/2016 05:55:51 PM 983 Views
I don't see how it makes sense to compare their roles, but Finn is certainly plenty strong. - 05/01/2016 07:38:05 PM 976 Views
Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 02:52:58 PM 1014 Views
Re: Finn reacts and is pretty much drug through the story - 06/01/2016 05:50:08 PM 993 Views
I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 02:49:44 PM 969 Views
Re: I don't have an issue with a strong female jedi - 07/01/2016 03:26:34 PM 1013 Views
The reall issue it looks like Luke sucked as Jedi master - 07/01/2016 07:14:31 PM 952 Views
Sorry, no. - 06/01/2016 06:56:09 PM 1032 Views
What a load of crap. - 08/01/2016 10:29:35 AM 929 Views
I only partially agree - 08/01/2016 03:27:10 PM 987 Views
Sorry if science isn't your thing but no what I said is true - 09/01/2016 11:49:15 PM 1101 Views
Re: Was finn as strong as Leia? I would say not even close - 08/01/2016 10:01:16 AM 908 Views
Well said *NM* - 05/01/2016 12:01:25 PM 743 Views
Because it isn't "subtraction"... - 08/01/2016 09:33:24 AM 956 Views
Of course it is - 09/01/2016 10:19:53 PM 938 Views
Okay so about the big bad guy *spoilers* - 05/01/2016 06:27:37 PM 1024 Views
I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:07:26 PM 1016 Views
Re: I may be alone on this, but... - 05/01/2016 08:42:42 PM 939 Views
What speaks against is for me... - 05/01/2016 10:57:44 PM 1358 Views
Re: What speaks against is for me... - 06/01/2016 10:08:35 AM 1095 Views
It's all good stuff, like the first book in a good sci-fi/fantasy trilogy! - 07/01/2016 06:44:45 AM 1044 Views
I think it's pretty obvious... - 17/01/2016 07:43:19 AM 1079 Views

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