Re: The concept of evil in SW (like in WOT) is Zoroastrian, not Taoist
dacole Send a noteboard - 11/06/2012 05:05:31 PM
Evil is something like a foreign virus which managed to invade the body of Creation. It exists, but people must reject it by abstaining from actions associated with evil or leading to it. Sinning makes evil grow.
It's not the manichean principle in which good and evil are complementary notions.
In SW, the Zoroastrian inspiration is transformed in a dark side of the Force that musn't be used, or evil will grow and destroy the cosmic harmony.
In WOT it's very similar: the shadow might have a cosmic role, but that role has it outside of Creation, barely able to touch what's inside (the role of that small brushing of the Lord of the Grave on Creation seems fairly obvious: it's to allow everything in Creation to decay and to trigger the transition between life state and death state, without making death final.). The Bore allowed Shai'tan to touch what's inside Creation in a larger way, and the more people have embraced its service the more it spread like a virus that would eventually destroy Creation.
As for Taoism, your understanding of the Yin Yang and what it represents is completely wrong (and seems to derive from wrong notions about WOT, where you associate the Shadow to the dark part and the Light to the white part, when this is strictly a representation of the harmony between the female and male aspects of the Light).
The Yin Yang is not good vs. evil. It represents the whole (thus the circle) in harmony, the female (dark) and male (white) aspects in balance. Female/Male isn't just the gender, but a whole set of opposite values/aspects that is associated with each (solar and lunar, wet and dry, active and passive and so on). The dots represents in turn the small part of female aspects in a male and vice versa, and the fact no aspect should dominate at the complete exclusion of its opposite. The symbol doesn't have to rotate (and has nothing to do whatsover with the Wheel of Time/Wheel of Suffering), that harmony doesn't purely mean constant equality between the two aspects, that one sometimes have to dominate, is already represented by the shape of the halves, each with a thin end and a large end, and the dots are placed in the large end.
The taoist aspect in Star Wars has nowhere the importance it has in WOT, and is pretty much limited to the dynamics of Anakin/Padmé and Luke/Leia. In WOT the Taoist inspiration is much greater as the equivalent of The Force is split in male/female aspects, and gender balance is a main theme of the series. But like in SW, the vision of good vs. evil isn't Taoist but mostly Zoroastrian.
In Taoism there's no Evil, evil is strictly an ethical concept, associated with behaviours disrupting cosmic harmony. It isn't represented in the Yin Yang, no more than evil is represented in WOT in the symbol of the Aes Sedai (the whole one, not the third age halves).
It's not the manichean principle in which good and evil are complementary notions.
In SW, the Zoroastrian inspiration is transformed in a dark side of the Force that musn't be used, or evil will grow and destroy the cosmic harmony.
In WOT it's very similar: the shadow might have a cosmic role, but that role has it outside of Creation, barely able to touch what's inside (the role of that small brushing of the Lord of the Grave on Creation seems fairly obvious: it's to allow everything in Creation to decay and to trigger the transition between life state and death state, without making death final.). The Bore allowed Shai'tan to touch what's inside Creation in a larger way, and the more people have embraced its service the more it spread like a virus that would eventually destroy Creation.
As for Taoism, your understanding of the Yin Yang and what it represents is completely wrong (and seems to derive from wrong notions about WOT, where you associate the Shadow to the dark part and the Light to the white part, when this is strictly a representation of the harmony between the female and male aspects of the Light).
The Yin Yang is not good vs. evil. It represents the whole (thus the circle) in harmony, the female (dark) and male (white) aspects in balance. Female/Male isn't just the gender, but a whole set of opposite values/aspects that is associated with each (solar and lunar, wet and dry, active and passive and so on). The dots represents in turn the small part of female aspects in a male and vice versa, and the fact no aspect should dominate at the complete exclusion of its opposite. The symbol doesn't have to rotate (and has nothing to do whatsover with the Wheel of Time/Wheel of Suffering), that harmony doesn't purely mean constant equality between the two aspects, that one sometimes have to dominate, is already represented by the shape of the halves, each with a thin end and a large end, and the dots are placed in the large end.
The taoist aspect in Star Wars has nowhere the importance it has in WOT, and is pretty much limited to the dynamics of Anakin/Padmé and Luke/Leia. In WOT the Taoist inspiration is much greater as the equivalent of The Force is split in male/female aspects, and gender balance is a main theme of the series. But like in SW, the vision of good vs. evil isn't Taoist but mostly Zoroastrian.
In Taoism there's no Evil, evil is strictly an ethical concept, associated with behaviours disrupting cosmic harmony. It isn't represented in the Yin Yang, no more than evil is represented in WOT in the symbol of the Aes Sedai (the whole one, not the third age halves).
Hmm I am going to have to reread the notes I have on Taoism from college years ago but that is a VERY different interpretation of it than I was operating under. I do realize it doesn't rotate in Taoism that was my addition to relate it to wheel of time and the larger point I was trying to make about the cyclical nature of good and evil in Star Wars and possibly in Wheel of Time (even wookipedia says Anakin only brought "balance" to the force for a time).
I have never really considered Zoroastrian eastern either as it was a prelude to Christianity. But I know even less about it than I do Toaism. (what I remember most about Toaism is it was very anti education and anti trying to change things to make things better as anything you did would really cause more harm than good even if it didn't look that way in the beginning. Very much a this is the best of all possible worlds philosophy which I reject pretty strongly).
"..the one to bring balance to the force"
08/06/2012 08:42:49 PM
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I was under the impression it was widely accepted that Anakin brought balance to the force...
08/06/2012 09:36:55 PM
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Actually, the most recent book revealed a solid answer to the prophecy.
08/06/2012 10:48:43 PM
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Is that really as canon as the movies?
09/06/2012 01:29:49 AM
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As canon as Han saying the Death Star was too big to be a space station...
09/06/2012 03:21:12 PM
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Re: As canon as Han saying the Death Star was too big to be a space station...
10/06/2012 06:24:16 AM
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The books are entirely canon.
11/06/2012 06:46:23 AM
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Re: The books are entirely canon.
11/06/2012 04:43:47 PM
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There are certainly some inconsistencies, but very few outright contradictions.
11/06/2012 07:47:25 PM
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"Balance to the Force" is a numbers game. The key is in a comment by Yoda at the end of Ep. 1.
08/06/2012 11:04:03 PM
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Re: "Balance to the Force" is a numbers game. The key is in a comment by Yoda at the end of Ep. 1.
09/06/2012 06:04:39 AM
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But Obi Wan said Anakin was prophecied to destroy the Sith "not join them!" And he did. Eventually. *NM*
11/06/2012 04:38:42 PM
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Technically, going strictly by the films, that could have been supposition rather than quotation. *NM*
11/06/2012 10:01:16 PM
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If things are going well, then balance is the last thing you want
09/06/2012 04:46:37 AM
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Re: If things are going well, then balance is the last thing you want
09/06/2012 06:17:44 AM
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I still think the bringing balance refers to what happens AFTER ROTJ
09/06/2012 10:19:01 AM
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Re: I still think the bringing balance refers to what happens AFTER ROTJ
09/06/2012 11:42:32 AM
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Re: I still think the bringing balance refers to what happens AFTER ROTJ
11/06/2012 04:49:06 PM
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This will sound offensive, sorry, but that sounds incredibly dumb.
09/06/2012 03:09:20 PM
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I don't see how it's dumb
09/06/2012 04:26:43 PM
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Re: I don't see how it's dumb
09/06/2012 06:18:17 PM
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I don't like your analogy - organisation vs nationality
09/06/2012 07:06:44 PM
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What if I had said Christians instead of Americans? Then you'd have the comparison you favor. *NM*
09/06/2012 08:44:21 PM
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No I wouldn't, I'm frankly confused as to why you think I would favour that more
09/06/2012 09:03:28 PM
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Not ideal maybe, but more an organization of people than a nation of people.
10/06/2012 12:11:51 AM
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What you seem to be overlooking...
09/06/2012 08:50:30 PM
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I'm not overlooking it. I just don't view the moment as one of "balance achievement".
10/06/2012 12:09:45 AM
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Your other posts don't sound as if you see what I'm getting at here...
10/06/2012 12:22:02 AM
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No, I do. You probably read my tangent about my disagreement with Lucas about Vader's redemption.
10/06/2012 12:41:36 AM
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The concept of evil in SW (like in WOT) is Zoroastrian, not Taoist
09/06/2012 12:26:20 PM
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Re: The concept of evil in SW (like in WOT) is Zoroastrian, not Taoist
11/06/2012 05:05:31 PM
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The problem with Star Wars is that smart people analyze it, but... it's pretty simplistic
10/06/2012 03:34:13 AM
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Re: The problem with Star Wars is that smart people analyze it, but... it's pretty simplistic
11/06/2012 05:06:54 PM
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