She still made plenty of choices and she did choose to kill.
Vivien Send a noteboard - 05/04/2012 07:13:47 PM
"She does use the tracker-jackers on the group below her tree, with full awareness of the possible lethality, so it isn't even like she was trying not to kill anyone, either."
Absolutely! She made the choice and the action to drop the nest of the wasps when she was in that tree. She knew what it would do and she did think about it and make that choice. It caused 2 deaths (in the book it was 2 though in the movie it was only 1) and it's not like she was shocked by that outcome. Dropping the nest of deadly wasps is not that different from throwing a bomb, I don't see how anyone could argue that Katniss did not make choices or that she chose not to kill.
Katniss could have just stayed up in that tree and who knows something else could have happened to remove the threat of the careers without making Katniss be responsible for the deaths.
The Rue thing... It kind of makes me wonder, let's say Rue is not killed and it's the end of the Hunger Games and the 3 people that are left are Rue, Katniss, and Peeta. What happens then? If Katniss values Rue's life over her own, does Peeta respect that choice or still seeks to keep Katniss alive at any cost? Does Katniss kill Peeta and then herself so that Rue can live?
Or does Rue somehow manage to kill them both to be the victor and her innocent angelic thing was all a clever ruse? Or it wasn't a ruse, she's still the same Rue but when it comes down to it she wants to live and values her life over the life of her friends.
Absolutely! She made the choice and the action to drop the nest of the wasps when she was in that tree. She knew what it would do and she did think about it and make that choice. It caused 2 deaths (in the book it was 2 though in the movie it was only 1) and it's not like she was shocked by that outcome. Dropping the nest of deadly wasps is not that different from throwing a bomb, I don't see how anyone could argue that Katniss did not make choices or that she chose not to kill.
Katniss could have just stayed up in that tree and who knows something else could have happened to remove the threat of the careers without making Katniss be responsible for the deaths.
The Rue thing... It kind of makes me wonder, let's say Rue is not killed and it's the end of the Hunger Games and the 3 people that are left are Rue, Katniss, and Peeta. What happens then? If Katniss values Rue's life over her own, does Peeta respect that choice or still seeks to keep Katniss alive at any cost? Does Katniss kill Peeta and then herself so that Rue can live?
Or does Rue somehow manage to kill them both to be the victor and her innocent angelic thing was all a clever ruse? Or it wasn't a ruse, she's still the same Rue but when it comes down to it she wants to live and values her life over the life of her friends.
Not actively pursuing and killing the other competitors in NOT the same as not making a choice. She was forced (with some slight volunteering) into a situation where she was presented with 2 options (Kill or be killed), and chose the third (survival). This choosing the third, non-presented, option is not unique to this story and is a common element in stories themed around maintaining morality in an "immoral" environment.
While she did try to avoid killing and preferred to get away and survive where she could, she never actually refused or refrained from killing, except with people for whom she cares (Peeta, Rue). I think the reviewer touched on that, that she was never in a position to refuse that option. For instance, the guy from Rue's district letting her go, or the Foxface girl, could both have been instances of morally conflicting choices. Neither was a "villain" per se, and were presented somewhat sympathetically, but they were also conveniently removed without Katniss having to make a choice about their lives or hers, as the Games bosses would almost certainly not have allowed the loophole they made for her and Peeta. She does use the tracker-jackers on the group below her tree, with full awareness of the possible lethality, so it isn't even like she was trying not to kill anyone, either. Though the capitol has removed so many of the people's freedoms, Katniss is able to maintain her free will and choose to not descend into the violent murder role that the capitol has chosen for her.
She only refused to kill her friend. I think the reviewer was aware of this issue, but complained that she was spared the necessity of having to make this choice when it could result in her death. In the end it could be debated that her choice to maintain her morality was more important to her than her own life when she chose double suicide when the gamemakers' reneged on their implied promise of a possible two survivors. I say debate because IIRC it is not 100% clear whether she would have gone though with it even if she felt the gamemakers were going to allow their deaths.
Agreed
The Hunger Games gets a ... different kind of review.
03/04/2012 03:37:39 PM
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"Written by a female with femalist themes"
03/04/2012 04:38:54 PM
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I grant that I haven't read the Hunger Games yet
03/04/2012 05:10:38 PM
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It's not. That's what shallow idiots say about things where women have power or physical skills *NM*
04/04/2012 03:45:22 PM
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I can only speak for the film, which was not feminist.
03/04/2012 06:01:18 PM
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Where do I start?
03/04/2012 07:43:18 PM
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But that is exactly what feminist means "it could have been a boy just as well"
04/04/2012 01:42:43 PM
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Makes me almost wish I knew the source material so I could judge what he is saying
03/04/2012 10:50:48 PM
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Why don't you think the Hunger Games are feminist?
03/04/2012 11:17:53 PM
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Why would I consider it to be femenist?
04/04/2012 01:51:24 AM
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I just don't consider feminism as something that has to be radical.
04/04/2012 05:42:59 AM
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Completely agree with your first paragraph
04/04/2012 08:22:35 AM
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To you "feminist" is a dirty word? To me, it means acceptable. Differences in definitions I think
04/04/2012 01:50:32 PM
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Unfortunately truly ordinary female characters are so rare that the exceptions stand out
04/04/2012 01:49:16 PM
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Fair enough
04/04/2012 02:33:22 PM
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Stop using female as a noun!
04/04/2012 03:51:13 PM
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It's stuff like that that makes you lose cred
04/04/2012 05:26:24 PM
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It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one.
04/04/2012 07:30:18 PM
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I don't think Jens was really using it that way, though
04/04/2012 07:34:28 PM
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Of course he didn't intend it that way, but that's how it sounds.
04/04/2012 08:06:03 PM
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I understand that, but it's still such a ridiculous thing to get fussed over
04/04/2012 09:20:01 PM
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You are rather exaggerating just how "fussed" anyone did get, you do realize.
04/04/2012 09:51:22 PM
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Her tone was not just "informative". It was accusatory
04/04/2012 10:17:57 PM
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Female is perfectly acceptable to use in a medical/clinical setting. *NM*
04/04/2012 10:36:57 PM
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so if your problem is people using it disparagingly...
04/04/2012 10:45:10 PM
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That's not what I said.
04/04/2012 10:51:41 PM
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Which flies in the face of it's ordinary usage, which smacks of needless revisionism.
06/04/2012 09:42:15 AM
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Accusatory of what.i think you meant annoyed. So youre annoyed she was annoyed? Let's out this to re *NM*
09/04/2012 12:44:17 PM
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Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears)
06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM
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Nope. (edit)
06/04/2012 07:23:54 PM
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Re: Nope. (edit)
07/04/2012 04:51:30 AM
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"Female that"? That's even worse.
07/04/2012 11:42:00 AM
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Ok.
07/04/2012 03:27:16 PM
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Let's try and whittle this down some so as to help you with the quotes.
07/04/2012 05:42:32 PM
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However he meant it, it was unpleasant to read. Just use "woman" instead. *NM*
05/04/2012 08:13:13 PM
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Re: It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one.
05/04/2012 02:21:21 AM
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English is not French, and it's not German. Particularly the connotations of American English words
06/04/2012 09:39:00 AM
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The prospect of "losing cred" is not going to stop me from speaking my mind.
04/04/2012 10:30:03 PM
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That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that.
04/04/2012 08:19:02 PM
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Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that.
04/04/2012 10:48:07 PM
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wait, so now you're claiming it's a grammatical thing? *NM*
04/04/2012 10:58:31 PM
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Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that.
05/04/2012 02:08:26 AM
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Re: Stop using female as a noun!
05/04/2012 02:18:47 PM
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If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here.
05/04/2012 05:59:16 PM
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Oh, so now we're using 'dislike' instead of 'should'. It's funny how you fell back on that.
06/04/2012 10:01:59 AM
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Fascinating.
06/04/2012 09:54:47 PM
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Re: Fascinating.
07/04/2012 03:54:26 AM
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Just in case (however slim that chance may be) you are genuinely interested in citations/references.
07/04/2012 05:34:37 AM
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What a joke. Do you even know what grammar is?
07/04/2012 05:57:40 AM
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Oh, come off it. This should be the point where you admit to being wrong.
07/04/2012 12:11:07 PM
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Sorry, no. Read better.
07/04/2012 02:23:10 PM
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Re: If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here.
09/04/2012 03:09:06 AM
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Nothing wrong with your use of female. You should ignore those crazy foreigners saying otherwise. *NM*
06/04/2012 02:49:41 PM
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I think I'll start saying males instead of men. If the males here don't mind? *NM*
09/04/2012 12:58:54 PM
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You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive
04/04/2012 01:46:16 PM
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Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive
04/04/2012 02:23:33 PM
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Interesting. I really need to read these books soon, evidently. *NM*
03/04/2012 10:52:43 PM
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And it appears the writer of the article completely missed a central point of the story *spoilers*
04/04/2012 05:44:40 AM
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I think that might be debatable
05/04/2012 06:59:35 PM
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She still made plenty of choices and she did choose to kill.
05/04/2012 07:13:47 PM
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The reviewer is kind of full of it, but makes a good point about the character
04/04/2012 04:22:30 PM
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