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Re: It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. DomA Send a noteboard - 05/04/2012 02:21:21 AM
I am no native speaker. I just checked. The word can be used as noun.

Yes. But mostly for animals. If you go around talking about a movie in German and all the "Weibchen" in it, I dare say people will call you a male chauvinist pig as well. :P


:D I'm with you.

I'm fairly averse to using it as a noun except for animals in English too, though I know that's all to do with how you use and don't use femelle (anymore) in French.

It would be extremely derogatory to use the word a noun for a human woman, except in a medical contex or as a short cut for "genre féminin". Another acceptable use would be for humour (non offensive gender humour, for e.g....)

I guess it has a lot to do with culture. Femelle for French speakers reduces the gender to its reproductive function and was mostly used in other contexts by mysogynists or men wishing to dismiss or attack the gender. Since feminism, the word is barely ever used except for animals and a proper scientific term (totally non offensive when used this way). A few decades ago however, a priest could for example (and if you go back far enough, often would) refer to Eve as a "femelle" (while referring to Adam as a Man), but nowadays a priest doing that would really ruffle his flock.

Anyway, culturally I still find it really weird and odd to use female as a noun for women in English when the context isn't scientific, and when others use it sounds derogative and rude (even aggressive), whatever the real intent. Based on the argument, it sounds like with English speakers the word has gained the same derogative stigma for some women, but it's not as widely established culturally/linguistically as it is in French. In French even the adjective could be derogative out of the scientific context, and féminin is much preferred for all the others.

Typically, mâle has none of those connotations. Using it over homme (man) for a human male is often even flattering. French can be incredibly sexist in some of its usages.

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The Hunger Games gets a ... different kind of review. - 03/04/2012 03:37:39 PM 2191 Views
"Written by a female with femalist themes" - 03/04/2012 04:38:54 PM 973 Views
Ok, I did and basically it's garbage. *NM* - 03/04/2012 04:53:00 PM 795 Views
I grant that I haven't read the Hunger Games yet - 03/04/2012 05:10:38 PM 920 Views
No, it's totally off. *NM* - 03/04/2012 05:39:03 PM 783 Views
fair enough. like I said, I haven't read it yet. *NM* - 03/04/2012 07:20:34 PM 731 Views
I can only speak for the film, which was not feminist. - 03/04/2012 06:01:18 PM 886 Views
Where do I start? - 03/04/2012 07:43:18 PM 895 Views
Hermoine was the most kick ass of the Potter kids. - 04/04/2012 03:08:17 AM 760 Views
So? Hunger Games has lots of male characters. - 04/04/2012 05:30:21 AM 814 Views
His racism point... - 04/04/2012 02:32:43 PM 700 Views
Makes me almost wish I knew the source material so I could judge what he is saying - 03/04/2012 10:50:48 PM 802 Views
Why don't you think the Hunger Games are feminist? - 03/04/2012 11:17:53 PM 907 Views
Why would I consider it to be femenist? - 04/04/2012 01:51:24 AM 789 Views
Completely agree with your first paragraph - 04/04/2012 08:22:35 AM 844 Views
Re: Completely agree with your first paragraph - 04/04/2012 01:43:55 PM 808 Views
Unfortunately truly ordinary female characters are so rare that the exceptions stand out - 04/04/2012 01:49:16 PM 841 Views
Fair enough - 04/04/2012 02:33:22 PM 877 Views
Stop using female as a noun! - 04/04/2012 03:51:13 PM 804 Views
It's stuff like that that makes you lose cred - 04/04/2012 05:26:24 PM 804 Views
It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. - 04/04/2012 07:30:18 PM 796 Views
I don't think Jens was really using it that way, though - 04/04/2012 07:34:28 PM 729 Views
Thank you! - 04/04/2012 08:03:38 PM 832 Views
Of course he didn't intend it that way, but that's how it sounds. - 04/04/2012 08:06:03 PM 813 Views
I understand that, but it's still such a ridiculous thing to get fussed over - 04/04/2012 09:20:01 PM 852 Views
You are rather exaggerating just how "fussed" anyone did get, you do realize. - 04/04/2012 09:51:22 PM 766 Views
Her tone was not just "informative". It was accusatory - 04/04/2012 10:17:57 PM 744 Views
Female is perfectly acceptable to use in a medical/clinical setting. *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:36:57 PM 983 Views
so if your problem is people using it disparagingly... - 04/04/2012 10:45:10 PM 712 Views
That's not what I said. - 04/04/2012 10:51:41 PM 827 Views
I'm going to have to just outright disagree with you then. *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:54:25 PM 759 Views
If I wanted to be accusatory... - 04/04/2012 11:05:37 PM 776 Views
Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM 798 Views
Nope. (edit) - 06/04/2012 07:23:54 PM 795 Views
Re: Nope. (edit) - 07/04/2012 04:51:30 AM 863 Views
"Female that"? That's even worse. - 07/04/2012 11:42:00 AM 750 Views
Ok. - 07/04/2012 03:27:16 PM 1029 Views
Re: It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. - 05/04/2012 02:21:21 AM 805 Views
I think the language difference is really interesting. - 05/04/2012 03:13:03 PM 812 Views
English is not French, and it's not German. Particularly the connotations of American English words - 06/04/2012 09:39:00 AM 875 Views
LOL! You don't say... - 06/04/2012 05:06:20 PM 784 Views
LOL u so mad - 06/04/2012 06:19:28 PM 776 Views
The prospect of "losing cred" is not going to stop me from speaking my mind. - 04/04/2012 10:30:03 PM 758 Views
My dear - 09/04/2012 01:07:34 PM 809 Views
LOL - 09/04/2012 01:57:53 PM 656 Views
guess what, it is a noun. *NM* - 04/04/2012 07:26:39 PM 638 Views
That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. - 04/04/2012 08:19:02 PM 774 Views
well it's important that you say "female human" - 04/04/2012 09:28:45 PM 765 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. - 04/04/2012 10:48:07 PM 757 Views
wait, so now you're claiming it's a grammatical thing? *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:58:31 PM 759 Views
No, I have issues with words that begin with the letter f. - 04/04/2012 11:09:45 PM 788 Views
ooookay then. - 04/04/2012 11:11:23 PM 844 Views
Re: Stop using female as a noun! - 05/04/2012 02:18:47 PM 708 Views
If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. - 05/04/2012 05:59:16 PM 745 Views
For the record, I certainly don't think you're crazy town. - 05/04/2012 07:23:18 PM 759 Views
Oh, so now we're using 'dislike' instead of 'should'. It's funny how you fell back on that. - 06/04/2012 10:01:59 AM 778 Views
Fascinating. - 06/04/2012 09:54:47 PM 808 Views
Re: Fascinating. - 07/04/2012 03:54:26 AM 783 Views
Just in case (however slim that chance may be) you are genuinely interested in citations/references. - 07/04/2012 05:34:37 AM 783 Views
What a joke. Do you even know what grammar is? - 07/04/2012 05:57:40 AM 841 Views
Oh, come off it. This should be the point where you admit to being wrong. - 07/04/2012 12:11:07 PM 718 Views
Sorry, no. Read better. - 07/04/2012 02:23:10 PM 754 Views
*deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. - 07/04/2012 06:38:08 PM 745 Views
Re: *deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. - 07/04/2012 09:26:34 PM 845 Views
Aha, we found the problem - 09/04/2012 01:03:35 PM 830 Views
You're being disingenuous. - 09/04/2012 12:57:38 PM 756 Views
To be fair - 04/04/2012 02:37:25 PM 794 Views
You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 01:46:16 PM 820 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 02:23:33 PM 771 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 07:51:46 PM 788 Views
This - 05/04/2012 12:20:04 AM 764 Views
I got half way through the review and got bored. - 04/04/2012 03:09:58 AM 739 Views
And it appears the writer of the article completely missed a central point of the story *spoilers* - 04/04/2012 05:44:40 AM 804 Views
I think that might be debatable - 05/04/2012 06:59:35 PM 779 Views
She still made plenty of choices and she did choose to kill. - 05/04/2012 07:13:47 PM 732 Views
The reviewer is kind of full of it, but makes a good point about the character - 04/04/2012 04:22:30 PM 830 Views
Out of curiosity (this off topic) - 04/04/2012 07:32:25 PM 726 Views
Rachel, of course. - 05/04/2012 12:17:41 AM 787 Views
Well. Now I've actually seen it. (mild spoilers) - 09/04/2012 12:17:03 AM 842 Views