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Rachel, of course. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 05/04/2012 12:17:41 AM
What would you consider a strong "kickass girl hero"? Or would you say that if the point of the character is her gender, you're already ruining the strength of the character? I feel like the latter frequently ends up being the case...
All to often. I guess it just means you need an author who is gender blind or at least considers both genders as different things, rather than better or worse options. See, usually for characters, the problem I have with kickass girl heroes is that people come up with "girl" and "kickass" and stop there. Then, in an ironically sexist twist, they consider their job done, because she's a girl and therefore that automatically means something. No, that means something to prospective romantic partners of the appropriate sexuality, and to her doctor and to the role in her societies. It has nothing to do with the ideals or morals she is expected to meet or live up to in order to be a hero. Defying social conventions is not a heroic thing in and of itself, especially not whent the defiant one profits. Defying social conventions to free a slave, simply because the slave is mistreated, is heroic. Defying social conventions to free a slave out of personal identification, physical attraction or other self-serving motive is NOT heroic. Yet all too often, girl characters are given lesser, selfish motives, and this is presumed to be heroic, for no other reason I can tell than the bar being set lower for a girl.

In aSoI&F Robb & Ned Stark are critiqued for not being politcally savvy enough to appease contemptible characters and are written off as incompetant and bad leaders. Yet, Daenerys Targaryen gets lauded and praised simply because she does things, whether good or bad, and still brings destruction and ruin, and what is more, owes a lot of her success to accidents of fortune and birth, and certainly gives no indication of operating under any code beyond her whims and sentiments. She is not heroic, and many things said about some of the worse rulers in the series could be applied to her as well. The worst of her trials have been in pursuit of personal advantage, which kind of undercuts any association of heroism.

The only explanation I can find for this unequal assessment of the characters (which I suspect the author may share) is lookism & sexism. She's an attractive teenaged girl, so there is already a sympathetic leaning to her actions and deeds, and they get interpreted in a sympathetic light unless she goes too far. It's the same thing for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The creator and showrunner of that character & show claims he was attempting to "take back the dark alley" for all the shallow blonde attractive victims in horror films, and calls himself a feminist. Yet, the character herself is explicitly stated on more than one occasion to have superior powers to her titular adversaries, and throughout the course of the show, humor is derived from her conflict between personal amusements and recreational pastimes and her supposed heroic vocation. She is supposed to be subverting the trope of the typical vampire-hunting scholar or detective or hard-bitten stake-whittler, by being a ditsy teenager who blows off hunting the undead for dances and shopping. And that's fine, if your work is merely parody or commentary on the others. But stop calling her a kickass action hero!

Buffy is Hancock, not Superman, but everyone has come to see powers as the measure of a hero, so Daenerys is a hero, because she has magic dragons. Katniss is a hero because she is a good shot and hunter. Captain America is a hero because he got instant muscles. The real measure of a hero is what they do, which is why someone with powers who acts in a heroic manner is a SUPERhero. Katniss is a hero because of things she did mostly before the story even begins, but readers and critics act as if what she does over the course of the book is what makes her heroic. She supports and protects her family, at great risk to herself. She does not volunteer for a heroic quest, she offers herself for death in place of her sister. Her better chance of winning/surviving over her sister never enters into her consideration except as a rationalization. She thinks it's certain death when she takes her sister's place, and so does pretty much everyone else. THAT is heroic. Winning a competition that is almost as much popularity contest as trial of skill? Meh.

Buffy is not a hero, even if she is a kick-ass girl. Katniss is a hero and a girl, and might be capable of kicking ass, but that is purely in potential. As the reviewer noted, she actually kicks very little ass.

Another fallacious version of the "kickass girl hero" is the belligerent and aggressive female who nonetheless has little or no cause for such behavior, or has reasons for personal maladjustment but takes them out on the wrong parties. The problem with such a figure is that her otherwise bad behavior is excused solely on account of her gender - behavior that would make a man a boor and a bully equates to "kickass female hero". Laurel K Hamilton's Anita Blake character, especially later in that series, fits that to a certain degree, and from what I recall of the Kevin Costner Robin Hood film, Maid Marian acts in such a manner, attacking Robin Hood without provocation when he comes by to pay a visit and continuing with unjustifiable physical confrontation once she is made aware of his identity (a neighbor, childhood acquaintance and friend of her brother), all of which seems to be intended to portray a strong, independant woman.

It seems all too many authors, in attempt to subvert a notion of female worth that is based on a relatively obsolete criterion of qualification for violence, fall into the trap of upholding that very criterion, by making their female heroes exemplify no other trait beyond qualification for violence!

The sexist reader, author, critic or character or institution would say "women should NOT have X power because of Y reason" and the inept answer of the post-modern "femalist" is to say "in my work women DO have X power! So there!" and they never actually adress the supposed fallacy. Sexists have said that women should not rule because of their emotional natures or romantic inclinations or sympathetic tendencies subverting their judgement, yet authors who would seem to be attempting to subvert that notion, such as Robert Jordan and George RR Martin, create female monarchs who are portrayed in the books as good and positive rulers, such as Morgase and Daenerys, who nonetheless DO create problems with their ill-advised romantic attachments and abuse of their authority to the ends of those attachments, who create problems for their subjects out of their sympathies for those suffering hardships, and who are frequently and explicitly governed by their emotions in making decisions.

Regarding the answer I gave in the title, Rachel from the Animorphs is one of the few examples who spring readily to mind, because she IS courageous, altruistic and heroic, often in explicit contrast to those with the same powers as she, and thus her exploits are shown to not be merely a function of her extraordinary abilities.

And, from what I've been told of the books, your little mini-review there is spot on. Honestly, it makes me want to go steal them from my friend to read more than any one else's comments :P
Thanks. Glad to help. I liked the book. I just liked it for what I perceived, rather than what everyone else seems to take out of it, which I A) do not find important or appealing in its own right, and B) do not actually find existing in the book/film itself.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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This message last edited by Cannoli on 05/04/2012 at 05:14:31 AM
  • Edit 1 by Cannoli on 05/04/2012 at 05:14:31 AM
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The Hunger Games gets a ... different kind of review. - 03/04/2012 03:37:39 PM 2183 Views
"Written by a female with femalist themes" - 03/04/2012 04:38:54 PM 966 Views
Ok, I did and basically it's garbage. *NM* - 03/04/2012 04:53:00 PM 787 Views
I grant that I haven't read the Hunger Games yet - 03/04/2012 05:10:38 PM 915 Views
No, it's totally off. *NM* - 03/04/2012 05:39:03 PM 778 Views
fair enough. like I said, I haven't read it yet. *NM* - 03/04/2012 07:20:34 PM 726 Views
I can only speak for the film, which was not feminist. - 03/04/2012 06:01:18 PM 879 Views
Where do I start? - 03/04/2012 07:43:18 PM 888 Views
Hermoine was the most kick ass of the Potter kids. - 04/04/2012 03:08:17 AM 752 Views
So? Hunger Games has lots of male characters. - 04/04/2012 05:30:21 AM 807 Views
His racism point... - 04/04/2012 02:32:43 PM 694 Views
Makes me almost wish I knew the source material so I could judge what he is saying - 03/04/2012 10:50:48 PM 794 Views
Why don't you think the Hunger Games are feminist? - 03/04/2012 11:17:53 PM 900 Views
Why would I consider it to be femenist? - 04/04/2012 01:51:24 AM 783 Views
Completely agree with your first paragraph - 04/04/2012 08:22:35 AM 838 Views
Re: Completely agree with your first paragraph - 04/04/2012 01:43:55 PM 801 Views
Unfortunately truly ordinary female characters are so rare that the exceptions stand out - 04/04/2012 01:49:16 PM 831 Views
Fair enough - 04/04/2012 02:33:22 PM 870 Views
Stop using female as a noun! - 04/04/2012 03:51:13 PM 796 Views
It's stuff like that that makes you lose cred - 04/04/2012 05:26:24 PM 797 Views
It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. - 04/04/2012 07:30:18 PM 791 Views
I don't think Jens was really using it that way, though - 04/04/2012 07:34:28 PM 725 Views
Thank you! - 04/04/2012 08:03:38 PM 826 Views
Of course he didn't intend it that way, but that's how it sounds. - 04/04/2012 08:06:03 PM 808 Views
I understand that, but it's still such a ridiculous thing to get fussed over - 04/04/2012 09:20:01 PM 845 Views
You are rather exaggerating just how "fussed" anyone did get, you do realize. - 04/04/2012 09:51:22 PM 761 Views
Her tone was not just "informative". It was accusatory - 04/04/2012 10:17:57 PM 733 Views
Female is perfectly acceptable to use in a medical/clinical setting. *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:36:57 PM 977 Views
so if your problem is people using it disparagingly... - 04/04/2012 10:45:10 PM 705 Views
That's not what I said. - 04/04/2012 10:51:41 PM 818 Views
I'm going to have to just outright disagree with you then. *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:54:25 PM 751 Views
If I wanted to be accusatory... - 04/04/2012 11:05:37 PM 773 Views
Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM 790 Views
Nope. (edit) - 06/04/2012 07:23:54 PM 788 Views
Re: Nope. (edit) - 07/04/2012 04:51:30 AM 855 Views
"Female that"? That's even worse. - 07/04/2012 11:42:00 AM 741 Views
Ok. - 07/04/2012 03:27:16 PM 1023 Views
Re: It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. - 05/04/2012 02:21:21 AM 796 Views
I think the language difference is really interesting. - 05/04/2012 03:13:03 PM 803 Views
English is not French, and it's not German. Particularly the connotations of American English words - 06/04/2012 09:39:00 AM 869 Views
LOL! You don't say... - 06/04/2012 05:06:20 PM 773 Views
LOL u so mad - 06/04/2012 06:19:28 PM 769 Views
The prospect of "losing cred" is not going to stop me from speaking my mind. - 04/04/2012 10:30:03 PM 751 Views
My dear - 09/04/2012 01:07:34 PM 799 Views
LOL - 09/04/2012 01:57:53 PM 647 Views
guess what, it is a noun. *NM* - 04/04/2012 07:26:39 PM 631 Views
That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. - 04/04/2012 08:19:02 PM 770 Views
well it's important that you say "female human" - 04/04/2012 09:28:45 PM 759 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. - 04/04/2012 10:48:07 PM 750 Views
wait, so now you're claiming it's a grammatical thing? *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:58:31 PM 754 Views
No, I have issues with words that begin with the letter f. - 04/04/2012 11:09:45 PM 781 Views
ooookay then. - 04/04/2012 11:11:23 PM 838 Views
Re: Stop using female as a noun! - 05/04/2012 02:18:47 PM 701 Views
If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. - 05/04/2012 05:59:16 PM 738 Views
For the record, I certainly don't think you're crazy town. - 05/04/2012 07:23:18 PM 752 Views
Oh, so now we're using 'dislike' instead of 'should'. It's funny how you fell back on that. - 06/04/2012 10:01:59 AM 770 Views
Fascinating. - 06/04/2012 09:54:47 PM 797 Views
Re: Fascinating. - 07/04/2012 03:54:26 AM 775 Views
Just in case (however slim that chance may be) you are genuinely interested in citations/references. - 07/04/2012 05:34:37 AM 775 Views
What a joke. Do you even know what grammar is? - 07/04/2012 05:57:40 AM 834 Views
Oh, come off it. This should be the point where you admit to being wrong. - 07/04/2012 12:11:07 PM 710 Views
Sorry, no. Read better. - 07/04/2012 02:23:10 PM 750 Views
*deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. - 07/04/2012 06:38:08 PM 736 Views
Re: *deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. - 07/04/2012 09:26:34 PM 839 Views
Aha, we found the problem - 09/04/2012 01:03:35 PM 822 Views
You're being disingenuous. - 09/04/2012 12:57:38 PM 750 Views
To be fair - 04/04/2012 02:37:25 PM 788 Views
You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 01:46:16 PM 812 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 02:23:33 PM 762 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 07:51:46 PM 778 Views
This - 05/04/2012 12:20:04 AM 758 Views
I got half way through the review and got bored. - 04/04/2012 03:09:58 AM 734 Views
And it appears the writer of the article completely missed a central point of the story *spoilers* - 04/04/2012 05:44:40 AM 798 Views
I think that might be debatable - 05/04/2012 06:59:35 PM 772 Views
She still made plenty of choices and she did choose to kill. - 05/04/2012 07:13:47 PM 722 Views
The reviewer is kind of full of it, but makes a good point about the character - 04/04/2012 04:22:30 PM 823 Views
Out of curiosity (this off topic) - 04/04/2012 07:32:25 PM 721 Views
Rachel, of course. - 05/04/2012 12:17:41 AM 781 Views
Well. Now I've actually seen it. (mild spoilers) - 09/04/2012 12:17:03 AM 832 Views