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Re: Martin's writing is often full of symbolism Cannoli Send a noteboard - 25/06/2011 10:08:38 PM
I think it was important to show the Arya Hotpie scene (which really happens in ACoK not AGoT, but the rest of the scene is the same) for Arya really goes to town on Hotpie. It shows Arya could be savage and evil, for Arya went far past what was required to defend herself, she almost cripples Hotpie and she enjoyed causing Hotpie pain. It shows that even the good guys can do evil acts (even though it was fun)
They might have actually altered that stuff in service to the character arcs. It's a bit much to expect a TV audience to wonder for the next 40 weeks if Arya is getting knifed or raped or something by Yorren, so they used the CoK scene to show off where she was going next. Even if Yorren's identity and good intentions are not questioned, by showing Arya with her new road companions establishes that she has not been "rescued" or in any way removed from danger. While she might be in the care of an ally, she is also now in greater physical danger than she might have been had the Lannisters caught her. She has value to them as a hostage, and the rules protecting noble girls apply to her. On the road with Yorren and his criminals, she faces entirely different dangers. Beating up Hot Pie as the final scene of the season would only serve to establish her as a badass (for a kid) and leave viewers confident that she can handle her shit. It would be better to move the fight to the beginning of next season, to establish her violent characteristics and budding sociopathic tendencies as a counterpoint to her fighting ability. Beating a guy up seconds after your dad's
beheading gives you credit with the audience, and they're less likely to note her nasty traits.


5) Having no Roose Bolton army is going to be a problem for a story telling perspective for Robb having his armies split is the reason he can not advance against Tywin's army. Robb if his army was one and with the riverlords had an army the size of Tywin or in fact larger, but he could not advance due to the fact the army was on the wrong side of the trident, and there was no chance of reuniting without attacking/being attacked via Tywin, and with his army split in two he would surely lose such a frontal assualt just like Jamies army was defeated at riverun since it was really three armies due to the river splitting it in thirds.
They did have the army fight Tywin, so they can still bring it up. I believe you are also exaggerating the strategic difficulty Robb faces. Robb's forces were not set up for defeat in detail as you suggest, but rather they had Tywin trapped. That's why he fled to Harrenhal. Once there, the problem was that Robb and Roose could not converge on him to take such a secure fortress against an army the size of Tywin's host. They didn't have the siege train and Gregor & Lorch & Hoat had orders to lay waste to all the lands in between their position and Harrenhal, which would have made it very difficult for the northerners to supply their forces if they tried to besiege the Lannisters in Harrenhal. Once Tywin fled to Harrenhal, he was no longer in between Stark & Bolton, but he WAS in position to attack them if they joined up or to move to the defense of King's Landing. Tywin's problem was the number of separate enemies he now faced, which limited his options, because if he moved against one, the others might pull tricks to his detriment. He had the numbers and power to be fairly confident of a tactical victory no matter what he did, but any such fight might have strategic costs. He defeated Roose Bolton's reduced force on the Green Fork, but had he known Robb was moving on Riverrun, in other words, that he faced two different armies, he would never have advanced to fight Bolton's force. Tywin was not afraid of the OUTCOME of any battle, he feared the political or strategic problems he fight get by getting stuck in a fight. That was why Robb raided into the West, to lure Tywin out of position just as he had with Bolton's army in GoT. Robb COULD have fought Tywin with a united Northern army without even crossing the river or paying Frey's price, but he did not want that, which was why he came up with the idea of splitting his force to go after Riverrun. After the battles of the Green Fork, Whispering Wood and Riverrun, he had even fewer men and less desire to fight Tywin head on and the Lannisters knew it and Tyrion points out as much to Cersei. That was Edmure's problem - he was thinking with his ego, and thinking of the immediate threat and ignoring the strategic concepts involved. Even not knowing Robb's strategy, he should have been thinking like the Lord of Riverrun and protector of its lands, and WANTED Tywin to pass Riverrun unmolested and out of his lands back into the West. By bloodying his nose, Edmure forced Tywin to remain in the Riverlands, raping and plundering Edmure's own vassals and his king's subjects. That's why even his own uncle was ready to rip him a new one.

Regarding the TV show, all they have to do at some point is mention the remnants of the northern army that fought Lord Tywin while Robb was lifting the siege of Riverrun. They really have not given themselves any troubles here, or irreparably altered the story. I think subsequent seasons are going to be greater departures from the books, because GoT was the most self-contained and straightforward book, and the least dependent on old history and pre-continuity to explain the events and actions. Much of the history of the old rebellion and the various houses' interactions with the Targaryens are still a mystery at this point and contribute nothing to the story. If the rest of the show is not going to devolve into endless lectures and stories, they are going to have to get a little creative at providing context for the relationships between power blocs and so forth.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Game of Thrones - Season 1 Finale.....(Spoilers) - 20/06/2011 04:39:17 AM 1467 Views
If Martin's series is good for anything, it's seeing the butterfly effect at work - 20/06/2011 09:41:15 AM 812 Views
Varys + Littlefinger - 20/06/2011 08:30:39 PM 644 Views
What is Pycelle's story in the books? - 21/06/2011 01:04:29 AM 680 Views
The show Pycelle is very similar to the book one - 21/06/2011 01:22:11 AM 688 Views
Also, what don't you like about TV-series Robb? *NM* - 21/06/2011 01:06:16 AM 294 Views
Wondered about that too - 21/06/2011 08:15:31 AM 649 Views
Huh. I thought the exact opposite, lol. Hell if I know who's right. *NM* - 21/06/2011 11:01:16 PM 287 Views
Nope, I agree with you. TV Rob is much more likeable. - 22/06/2011 12:44:22 AM 616 Views
You're letting things that aren't even close to happening in the show affect your comparison?? - 22/06/2011 06:29:54 AM 628 Views
I think you are really splitting hairs here..... *NM* - 22/06/2011 08:19:14 PM 388 Views
I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. *general book spoilers* - 23/06/2011 12:10:23 AM 608 Views
I think people are reading way too much into what I said. - 23/06/2011 09:53:24 AM 547 Views
Probably. - 23/06/2011 10:24:59 PM 610 Views
Re: Probably. - 24/06/2011 08:10:34 AM 588 Views
which Kingsguard was it that was slapping Sansa around? - 20/06/2011 01:24:12 PM 740 Views
I'm sorry, where am I? - 20/06/2011 03:29:34 PM 660 Views
I think you are confused - 20/06/2011 04:25:49 PM 649 Views
oh!! - 20/06/2011 07:47:03 PM 636 Views
It was Sir Meryn Trant - 20/06/2011 04:26:24 PM 693 Views
thanks *NM* - 21/06/2011 12:47:35 AM 264 Views
I. Want. More. - 20/06/2011 03:31:40 PM 658 Views
Great episode - 20/06/2011 08:31:40 PM 653 Views
Brilliant - 20/06/2011 08:33:49 PM 681 Views
Things I HATED - 21/06/2011 02:58:01 AM 716 Views
These complaints seem so funny to someone who read the book once 8 years ago - 21/06/2011 05:10:13 AM 889 Views
True. 5 years for me and I don't remember any of that or care *NM* - 21/06/2011 08:16:47 AM 322 Views
Martin's writing is often full of symbolism - 21/06/2011 03:35:34 PM 692 Views
fully explaining it didn't change my opinion - 21/06/2011 07:10:33 PM 685 Views
Re: Martin's writing is often full of symbolism - 25/06/2011 10:08:38 PM 639 Views
Re: Things I HATED - 21/06/2011 08:04:00 AM 716 Views
I think you're being a little nit-picky - 23/06/2011 12:46:52 AM 757 Views

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