I'm not an expert by any means, but I think you have that wrong.
Aemon Send a noteboard - 19/04/2011 03:22:46 AM
The second half is right. "Too sharp," "too clean," and so on, yeah, that's just HD resolution. If you don't like seeing individual pores on the characters, too bad, get used to it.
The first part, though, is (as I understand it) wrong. The soap opera effect he's talking about is very well known, and is NOT caused by the difference between 24fps and 30fps material. Rather, it's caused by the interpolation of extra frames that higher end LCD tvs use to create additional smoothing. You're right to say that the refresh rate of a TV is not directly tied to its motion processing, but you're wrong to say that TVs don't extrapolate frames; they do, and this behavior is almost always associated with the 120/240hz image modes. See this link for reference. If you still don't believe me, go to amazon and look at the advertisements for 120hz tvs. The word "interpolation" is often included in the description of the 120hz smoothing feature (whatever the manufacturer decides to call it).
Now that the soap opera effect is taken care of, we have to to talk about movies, which are shot in 24fps. TVs have to deal with this material differently, because the standard refresh rate of an LCD monitor is 60hz, and 24 does not divide evenly into 60 (as the 30fps of regular television does). So, you can deal with this in one of two ways. See the following link for reference.
1) 3:2 pulldown. You touched on this, and explained it pretty well. 60/24 = 2.5, but a tv can't display "half" a frame, so it alternates between displaying a frame three times, and two times, with some algorithmic magic to make it all sync up. The problem is that it doesn't sync quite perfectly, so you get some "judder." This doesn't bother most people, but film purists don't like it. And so...
2) ...we have the other way of handling 24fps, which is to have a refresh rate that's a multiple of 24. LCD tvs that are 120/240hz capable handle this by using the higher refresh rate without the motion interpolation associated with their smoothing modes. Generally, 120 WITH interpolation is called "Automotion" (or some other "motion" related name) and 120 WITHOUT interpolation is a separate mode called "Cinema" or "film" or something along those lines. Note that native 24fps handling is common in LCD tvs, but still a fairly high end feature on plasma tvs, whose technology is more difficult to adapt to different refresh rates.
Anyway, I might have some of that wrong, but I think I've got most of it. You sound like you know what you're talking about, so I hesitate to correct you, but it's just not true that TVs don't do motion interpolation, or that the soap opera effect is the same thing as 3:2 pulldown judder. They're two very different issues.
The first part, though, is (as I understand it) wrong. The soap opera effect he's talking about is very well known, and is NOT caused by the difference between 24fps and 30fps material. Rather, it's caused by the interpolation of extra frames that higher end LCD tvs use to create additional smoothing. You're right to say that the refresh rate of a TV is not directly tied to its motion processing, but you're wrong to say that TVs don't extrapolate frames; they do, and this behavior is almost always associated with the 120/240hz image modes. See this link for reference. If you still don't believe me, go to amazon and look at the advertisements for 120hz tvs. The word "interpolation" is often included in the description of the 120hz smoothing feature (whatever the manufacturer decides to call it).
Now that the soap opera effect is taken care of, we have to to talk about movies, which are shot in 24fps. TVs have to deal with this material differently, because the standard refresh rate of an LCD monitor is 60hz, and 24 does not divide evenly into 60 (as the 30fps of regular television does). So, you can deal with this in one of two ways. See the following link for reference.
1) 3:2 pulldown. You touched on this, and explained it pretty well. 60/24 = 2.5, but a tv can't display "half" a frame, so it alternates between displaying a frame three times, and two times, with some algorithmic magic to make it all sync up. The problem is that it doesn't sync quite perfectly, so you get some "judder." This doesn't bother most people, but film purists don't like it. And so...
2) ...we have the other way of handling 24fps, which is to have a refresh rate that's a multiple of 24. LCD tvs that are 120/240hz capable handle this by using the higher refresh rate without the motion interpolation associated with their smoothing modes. Generally, 120 WITH interpolation is called "Automotion" (or some other "motion" related name) and 120 WITHOUT interpolation is a separate mode called "Cinema" or "film" or something along those lines. Note that native 24fps handling is common in LCD tvs, but still a fairly high end feature on plasma tvs, whose technology is more difficult to adapt to different refresh rates.
Anyway, I might have some of that wrong, but I think I've got most of it. You sound like you know what you're talking about, so I hesitate to correct you, but it's just not true that TVs don't do motion interpolation, or that the soap opera effect is the same thing as 3:2 pulldown judder. They're two very different issues.
Game of Thrones - Episode 1: Official discussion thread
17/04/2011 11:04:49 AM
- 3075 Views
i'm going to start off with....
17/04/2011 04:08:12 PM
- 1380 Views
It seems to have focused him back on aSoFaI....He has made alot of progress on aDwD almost Done!!! *NM*
17/04/2011 10:58:09 PM
- 587 Views
HOLY CRAP
18/04/2011 03:06:55 AM
- 1397 Views
No, but Jaime and Tyrion have a VERY strong sibling resemblance.
18/04/2011 06:29:00 AM
- 1047 Views
Joff's lips were just not pouty enough I thought, still I can't stand the sight of him, so good job *NM*
18/04/2011 07:13:22 AM
- 454 Views
I also approve of the casting. Other impressions:
18/04/2011 06:33:44 AM
- 1165 Views
Dany's wedding night did not end with a smile....
18/04/2011 07:08:38 AM
- 1183 Views
Hmm.
18/04/2011 07:47:44 AM
- 1088 Views
I think you're pretty close to remembering correctly
19/04/2011 02:28:06 AM
- 1054 Views
Meh, I didn't really mind that scene.
19/04/2011 03:38:34 AM
- 896 Views
I really enjoyed it, but one thing that was distracting me...
18/04/2011 08:15:54 AM
- 1244 Views
So you were definitly watching it on a LCD or LED tv with 120hrtz or greater.....they are poopy
18/04/2011 08:52:29 AM
- 1039 Views
Ouch....
18/04/2011 09:59:28 PM
- 980 Views
I'm not an expert by any means, but I think you have that wrong.
19/04/2011 03:22:46 AM
- 1165 Views
Re: I'm not an expert by any means, but I think you have that wrong.
19/04/2011 02:29:30 PM
- 925 Views
As I said, you sound like you know what you're talking about.
19/04/2011 03:53:34 PM
- 1047 Views
I've gotta butt in
19/04/2011 04:46:28 PM
- 892 Views
The more, the merrier.
19/04/2011 05:26:29 PM
- 1042 Views
Poopy was kinda strong language. It is a matter of taste and Aemon is my new favorite.
19/04/2011 06:25:15 PM
- 962 Views
Re: Poopy was kinda strong language. It is a matter of taste and Aemon is my new favorite.
19/04/2011 06:44:18 PM
- 937 Views
Re: As I said, you sound like you know what you're talking about.
20/04/2011 12:24:25 AM
- 891 Views
this whole discussion has gone way over my head
20/04/2011 12:53:06 AM
- 848 Views
Don't worry about it, there's no reason to know most of that stuff.
20/04/2011 08:08:15 AM
- 961 Views
One question that can be seen in the preview
18/04/2011 06:55:16 AM
- 1058 Views
I wondered at this too
18/04/2011 07:26:15 PM
- 885 Views
Re: I wondered at this too
18/04/2011 08:21:07 PM
- 930 Views
Yes like predator! Don't like the noises they had it making too. Importance of colour:
18/04/2011 11:47:17 PM
- 1150 Views
It appears doggy-style is the preferred method of copulation so far. *NM*
18/04/2011 08:11:45 AM
- 523 Views
the last couple we saw doing it that way
18/04/2011 08:34:33 AM
- 1381 Views
I could be wrong but I seem to think the book had her looking over his shoulder from missionary. *NM*
19/04/2011 04:29:26 AM
- 553 Views
Is it me
18/04/2011 12:48:48 PM
- 1075 Views
Yes, it was definitely a different scenery than the rest of Winterfell.
19/04/2011 04:31:00 AM
- 976 Views
Yeah, she was walking through the inner yard and then arrived there
19/04/2011 08:35:54 AM
- 1117 Views
Well I think it was as good as it could have been.
19/04/2011 03:03:27 AM
- 1154 Views
Interesting that you comment on the looks, because I felt the same.
19/04/2011 03:50:49 AM
- 1124 Views
That was very good, but...
19/04/2011 08:17:02 AM
- 1069 Views
A couple of early impressions...
19/04/2011 07:55:04 PM
- 1214 Views
nah, the break out performance on this show is going to be
20/04/2011 01:00:50 AM
- 982 Views
I enjoyed it. I'll continue watching and maybe even give the book another go when I have time.
20/04/2011 12:58:56 AM
- 932 Views