So Beet: where you intending to level accusations against Isaac or what? Honestly, what are your thoughts on the matter? Who do you think we should chase after Today?
Honestly? I'm still not sure. I WAS sure (well, 90%) about F-T; I detailed my reasons on Day 1, and I'll mention them at the end of this post.
The problem is that all of the focus is on Issac and me. I've defended myself. With Issac, I don't have nearly the same certainty.
Well, I know one of the reasons you stand out to me is simply because you took a strong stance yesterday. There were so few people who did so, those who do tend to stick in the mind. And of course, there's the potential for evil that goes along with your particular case.

I mentioned on Day 1 that I didn't think Issac was a DF, just because of the massive amounts of text he wrote attacking FT. If Issac was a DF, he'd have known he was setting himself up for suspicion, and probably would have backed off a bit.
Now, Issac's been aggressive towards me today (at least, compared to all of the other players). I find myself in the same dilemma F-T was in: I know I'm innocent, so is this a case of a DF trying to drum up support for a lynch against me, or is it just Issac seizing on one of the few pieces of evidence available, and seeing where it leads?
Annoyingly, I'd have to say Issac seems innocent to me. The rest of you (barring Kronin, I think?) have more or less supported me, or at the least don't seem to find me nearly as suspicious as Issac does. Again, a DF would probably back off, right?
Or it could just be an example of the aggressive playstyle that Issac himself has admitted he uses (hold on... I'll go find the damn quote!).......................................................................................................................................................................................................OK, so I hate the world for hunting through every post to find this stupid thing.
PS I'm not accusing Issac, mostly BECAUSE he's been so dogged in attacking F-T. A DF wouldn't be that blatant, especially on Day 1.
Yes, I would. I hate to say it, but if I don't someone else will.
Df or townie, I tend to instigate the majority of Day 1 lynches.

So yeah, the reason I keep mentioning Issac without making a direct accusation is because while it's true he's one of the few things we are ABLE to discuss (along with me, FT, voting records, and the night kills), I don't have enough evidence yay or nay to make a convincing case, even for myself.
We appreciate the quote hunting.

Basically: I Am Open To Ideas. Anyone Have Some?
I guess we ought to see where Fox's accusation against Hieshyn go.
I pretty much agree on this point. I am never EVER sure about anything, and when I am I usually turn out to be wrong. The fact of the matter was that there was no evidence for either side, and both scenarios were just about equally likely.
Actually, since I'm already quoting things, I'll just quote my reasoning from Day 1:
My only main objection is your point saying that a non-random lynch is better than a random lynch. This CAN be true, but isn't always the case. A lynch isn't better simply because it's non-random; a lynch is better because it's non-random and built upon solid logic (or at least solid guesses).
Above, I made a post thinking about F-T's logic. It boiled down to two scenarios:
1) He is a DF, and decided to go from having zero suspicion on him to having major suspicion on him, on Day One. Likely part of an elaborate scheme to preemptively allay suspicion if the cop investigates him.
2) He is a Miller, knew something like this would come up eventually, and decided to do it now, rather than after he'd been investigated.
2 seems much, much more likely to me. It's obviously not working out as well as F-T had hoped, but a similar thing happened to Hopper last game: both had plans they thought would help the town, but instead drew the town's suspicion upon themselves.
Plan 1 requires a long term gambit, flying in the face of accepted DF wisdom, and ignoring the fact that on Day 1, everyone is pretty much equally suspicious- painting a bullseye on your face and telling people its fake doesn't make you less suspicious.
I was basically playing the odds like everyone else, but my rationale was "Which is more likely: A DF exposing himself for no reason, or a Lightsider trying something unorthodox and getting jumped on by nervous villagers?" Add to that the fact that many DFs have alternate abilities that make sacrificing even less attractive, and I felt confident in my choice.
Well, I suppose you were right in the end, but I still think that it was a rather over-confidant assumption. Idk. Both you and Isaac have become Persons of Interest, but we'll see.
Insert theme music here.
Rafo Mafia 4 Day 2 is over.
08/02/2010 06:53:53 PM
- 3435 Views
Well, I guess I'll kick off this discussion
08/02/2010 08:53:49 PM
- 1371 Views
Re: Well, I guess I'll kick off this discussion
08/02/2010 09:28:57 PM
- 1175 Views
Hey, by the way, are you Mafia?
08/02/2010 09:34:46 PM
- 1322 Views
I am not Hopper
08/02/2010 10:37:55 PM
- 1245 Views

Maybe I am AWESOME
08/02/2010 11:19:48 PM
- 1308 Views
A few questions and comments
08/02/2010 09:29:06 PM
- 1253 Views
Re: Well, I guess I'll kick off this discussion
09/02/2010 02:47:03 AM
- 1235 Views
RBIRL ... test tomorrow. Probably not going to post tonight. *NM*
09/02/2010 12:03:38 AM
- 749 Views
You know what?
09/02/2010 01:17:52 AM
- 1203 Views
Re: You know what?
09/02/2010 01:34:42 AM
- 1143 Views
Heh, inorganic chemistry.
09/02/2010 01:57:39 AM
- 1200 Views
Re: Heh, inorganic chemistry.
09/02/2010 02:38:45 AM
- 1189 Views
Re: Heh, inorganic chemistry.
09/02/2010 03:29:32 AM
- 1249 Views
Re: Heh, inorganic chemistry.
09/02/2010 03:36:28 AM
- 1224 Views
Well thanks for the encouragement.
09/02/2010 04:14:50 AM
- 1388 Views

Heh, Mafia: Other than the occasional lynching or assassination, we're one big supportive family.
09/02/2010 04:24:26 AM
- 1197 Views
Hypocop (Table)
09/02/2010 12:59:06 AM
- 1279 Views
I investigated Fox and Ravens and found hi to be for the shadow. *NM*
09/02/2010 04:46:50 AM
- 683 Views
Hmmm,
09/02/2010 06:18:29 AM
- 1180 Views
We didn't lose two of our biggest roles. Also- I wonder if there are more roles?
09/02/2010 06:35:05 AM
- 1093 Views
Re: We didn't lose two of our biggest roles. Also- I wonder if there are more roles?
09/02/2010 07:16:19 AM
- 1190 Views
Huh. Oh boy oh
09/02/2010 06:39:15 AM
- 1018 Views
Care to give us your thoughts? *NM*
09/02/2010 07:26:09 AM
- 718 Views
Well, losing Doc and Deputy same night is bound to cause trouble. Especially losing Doc. *NM*
09/02/2010 08:54:49 AM
- 680 Views
I want to throw this out here.
09/02/2010 07:21:04 AM
- 1233 Views
What changed your mind? *NM*
09/02/2010 08:58:09 AM
- 672 Views
Well, I realized I was the one telling everyone to just vote for someone.
09/02/2010 04:56:17 PM
- 1192 Views
Why is everyone assuming we have a SK?
10/02/2010 12:09:47 AM
- 1251 Views
What tips me off is the "melted plastic".
10/02/2010 12:22:56 AM
- 1079 Views
That's so arbitrary, though.
10/02/2010 12:57:09 AM
- 1051 Views
EBWOP: It's probably not a vigilante.
10/02/2010 01:05:57 AM
- 1278 Views
That seems like good reasoning
10/02/2010 01:50:47 AM
- 1213 Views
Re: That seems like good reasoning
10/02/2010 01:58:14 AM
- 1227 Views
That's a vig rule? I did not know that
10/02/2010 08:16:56 PM
- 1191 Views
Well, it's pretty common sense.
10/02/2010 09:09:09 PM
- 1289 Views
I think he might have been referring to vigilante kills being blockable
10/02/2010 09:43:53 PM
- 1134 Views
As the resident expert on vigilantism
10/02/2010 08:04:17 PM
- 1504 Views
Youre the resident expert on vigilantism? *NM*
11/02/2010 11:06:24 PM
- 681 Views
He was a vig once or twice. *NM*
12/02/2010 01:33:57 AM
- 716 Views
Wait, haven't you proposed an arsonist most games. *NM*
10/02/2010 04:37:33 AM
- 660 Views
Because we have a SK *NM*
10/02/2010 05:14:00 AM
- 630 Views
wait a minute
10/02/2010 01:15:32 PM
- 1206 Views
Another thing
10/02/2010 04:42:50 PM
- 1313 Views
F-T, I assume
10/02/2010 05:08:58 PM
- 1140 Views
Probably, might be a hint at an RB but I doubt it *NM*
10/02/2010 06:57:01 PM
- 695 Views
I don't think it could be a RB
10/02/2010 07:47:55 PM
- 1241 Views
We're stalling out a bit
11/02/2010 10:05:09 PM
- 1150 Views
We could talk about my heroic failure to defend the innocent some more? Fine...
12/02/2010 07:12:51 AM
- 1225 Views
You seem engaged in a very active defense so far this game
12/02/2010 09:40:23 PM
- 1376 Views
Yawn...
12/02/2010 11:28:50 PM
- 1338 Views
Re: Yawn...
13/02/2010 12:32:30 AM
- 1305 Views
Re: Yawn...
13/02/2010 01:31:41 AM
- 1232 Views
He's brought up accusations on himself
13/02/2010 02:40:01 AM
- 1342 Views
Alrighty, let's try this again.
14/02/2010 06:38:26 AM
- 1035 Views
Always happy to answer your questions
14/02/2010 07:35:35 AM
- 1066 Views
Thanks for the answers.
15/02/2010 07:29:31 PM
- 1182 Views
On F-T's accusations against you.
14/02/2010 01:54:20 AM
- 1214 Views
Re: On F-T's accusations against you.
14/02/2010 03:43:52 AM
- 1108 Views
That's right, I am the Breaker of Unbroken Records
14/02/2010 05:56:52 AM
- 1185 Views

Actually, quite few of my streaks were broken on that one
14/02/2010 08:43:09 AM
- 1095 Views
I'm in second? Woo!
14/02/2010 02:46:05 PM
- 1179 Views
Yep, welcome to being a lightning rod
14/02/2010 09:10:43 PM
- 1316 Views

I'm not gonna be as targeted as you; I've died a LOT.
14/02/2010 11:17:24 PM
- 1182 Views
Ironically I don't think I've ever killed you
14/02/2010 11:56:03 PM
- 1161 Views
Game 1 I remember.
15/02/2010 12:01:21 AM
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Re: Game 1 I remember.
15/02/2010 12:19:30 AM
- 1380 Views
Three stalled out over the winter holidays and we had to restart.
15/02/2010 01:26:59 AM
- 1361 Views
Actually...
15/02/2010 04:57:50 PM
- 1274 Views
A second line of thought: ranagrande
12/02/2010 07:40:37 AM
- 1443 Views
Vote: Hieshyn
15/02/2010 03:27:04 AM
- 1037 Views
Re: Hieshyn
15/02/2010 12:54:42 PM
- 1330 Views
Well, it's less that discussion is winding down, and more that we don't have any new topics
15/02/2010 05:48:22 PM
- 1085 Views
Well this was unexpected.
15/02/2010 06:07:44 PM
- 1143 Views
Re: Well this was unexpected.
15/02/2010 08:30:57 PM
- 1156 Views
I think he's saying that he's been quiet because he's busy, not a DF
15/02/2010 08:39:53 PM
- 1065 Views
If he was the SK
15/02/2010 07:55:38 PM
- 1264 Views
Game 9 was F-T's Cairhienen Civil War/Succession.
15/02/2010 08:53:03 PM
- 1136 Views
Oh that's right!
15/02/2010 09:03:40 PM
- 1115 Views
Re: Game 9 was F-T's Cairhienen Civil War/Succession.
15/02/2010 11:54:44 PM
- 1223 Views
Lol irony
16/02/2010 12:16:49 AM
- 1191 Views
So, it's just because he hasn't been talking much? That fits a lot of people
15/02/2010 09:31:02 PM
- 1261 Views
OK, I'm glad that vote got some discussion flowing.
16/02/2010 02:58:55 AM
- 1278 Views
Ooo sneaky sneaky
16/02/2010 03:58:37 AM
- 1382 Views
Re: Ooo sneaky sneaky
16/02/2010 04:25:26 AM
- 1200 Views
You know doing this sort of thing can get you lynched
16/02/2010 04:40:23 AM
- 1251 Views
Oh, I know it can.
16/02/2010 05:23:13 AM
- 1214 Views
Re: Oh, I know it can.
16/02/2010 07:00:53 AM
- 1276 Views
It's weird- I've never played Live Mafia, but I imagine it's very different.
16/02/2010 08:58:09 AM
- 1286 Views
I'm still here, I've been busy with studying, and hadn't realized I was gone this long.
16/02/2010 06:50:44 AM
- 1175 Views
Sorry all. Friday thru Monday suddenly got really hectic, I wasn't home much at all.
18/02/2010 01:54:02 AM
- 1195 Views
So, where are we at?
18/02/2010 02:40:32 AM
- 1200 Views
EBWOP: Issac's maybe only a 5.5. No, a 5.7
18/02/2010 06:58:40 AM
- 1228 Views
OK so I apparantly lack the technical know-how to reply to myself
18/02/2010 07:08:36 AM
- 1315 Views
Re: OK so I apparantly lack the technical know-how to reply to myself
18/02/2010 07:54:05 AM
- 1186 Views
Well yeah, all of that is mostly why I haven't been pushing anything
18/02/2010 08:51:14 AM
- 1096 Views
Uggggghhhh...Ok. This post makes me want to vote you off.
18/02/2010 03:28:19 PM
- 1123 Views
You seem to have misunbderstood my question
18/02/2010 04:28:47 PM
- 1132 Views
Re: You seem to have misunbderstood my question
18/02/2010 05:10:14 PM
- 1303 Views
Nice little typo I have there on misundertood, that's gonna be nagging at me for all of Day 2
18/02/2010 05:25:49 PM
- 1142 Views
Re: Nice little typo I have there on misundertood, that's gonna be nagging at me for all of Day 2
19/02/2010 04:45:25 AM
- 1127 Views
Thanks, all right let's review it
19/02/2010 11:41:19 AM
- 1180 Views
Alright then.
19/02/2010 05:20:39 PM
- 956 Views
EBWOP
19/02/2010 05:23:06 PM
- 1268 Views
Re: EBWOP
19/02/2010 06:53:08 PM
- 1264 Views
Naive?
19/02/2010 07:13:14 PM
- 1268 Views
Naive or sinister, take your pick
19/02/2010 07:29:09 PM
- 1218 Views
We could go with "arrogant," instead of either of those, if you like
20/02/2010 01:59:22 AM
- 1016 Views
Hmm...well here's something interesting now that you reminded me of that game...
19/02/2010 08:26:33 PM
- 1112 Views
Re: Hmm...well here's something interesting now that you reminded me of that game...
19/02/2010 08:40:47 PM
- 1096 Views
Re: EBWOP
19/02/2010 08:32:55 PM
- 1086 Views
Re: EBWOP
19/02/2010 08:57:50 PM
- 1103 Views
Actually, that reminds me. HEY KRONIN!
18/02/2010 07:09:39 AM
- 1155 Views
Hey.
18/02/2010 04:09:08 PM
- 1197 Views
Re: Hey.
18/02/2010 05:37:33 PM
- 1278 Views
FT had no evidence one way or the other if Issac was a DF
18/02/2010 05:44:43 PM
- 1099 Views
Don't put words in my mouth.
18/02/2010 06:03:55 PM
- 1247 Views
Oh no, I know, I know. I'm just saying, FT has no more credibility than any of us *NM*
18/02/2010 07:48:58 PM
- 697 Views
But he IS a damn good player, and his advice, however limited, should be taken into account. *NM*
18/02/2010 07:49:58 PM
- 671 Views
fistofpainx, Do you have any thoughts?
18/02/2010 05:46:38 PM
- 1186 Views
I think that
18/02/2010 09:45:56 PM
- 1242 Views
Well, if my combine the Vote Record with our previous suspicions...
18/02/2010 09:48:24 PM
- 1150 Views
All right, ranagrande (and everyone else). Why shouldn't we lynch you?
18/02/2010 11:32:07 PM
- 1156 Views
Re: All right, ranagrande (and everyone else). Why shouldn't we lynch you?
19/02/2010 03:01:45 AM
- 1083 Views
Re: All right, ranagrande (and everyone else). Why shouldn't we lynch you?
19/02/2010 04:07:03 AM
- 1222 Views
I think you're overestimating the appearance of your own innocence.
19/02/2010 05:38:53 AM
- 1127 Views
Yeah, it's mostly just about getting the conversation going
19/02/2010 06:40:17 AM
- 1179 Views
In response to Fox and Ravens (down here to stop horizontal scroll)
19/02/2010 09:50:16 PM
- 1204 Views
Re: In response to Fox and Ravens (down here to stop horizontal scroll)
19/02/2010 10:22:37 PM
- 1241 Views
Well, the reason for the prohibition doesn't apply post-game, so I'll go with no
20/02/2010 05:07:38 AM
- 1139 Views
After seeing this thread....
20/02/2010 05:53:47 AM
- 1057 Views
Go ahead and start one then.
20/02/2010 06:08:12 AM
- 1192 Views
Re: Go ahead and start one then.
20/02/2010 06:47:23 AM
- 1287 Views
Isaac, did you say you have Cor's original rules saved somewhere?
20/02/2010 04:50:29 PM
- 1281 Views
Re: Isaac, did you say you have Cor's original rules saved somewhere?
20/02/2010 05:16:09 PM
- 1342 Views
Alright.
20/02/2010 05:43:51 PM
- 1235 Views
Thanks
20/02/2010 07:48:20 PM
- 1093 Views
Re: Thanks
20/02/2010 10:35:26 PM
- 1087 Views
Ranagrande *NM*
21/02/2010 12:55:29 AM
- 652 Views
Really?
21/02/2010 01:58:24 AM
- 1178 Views
Re: Thanks
21/02/2010 01:57:25 AM
- 1176 Views
Well, you kind of said it yourself.
21/02/2010 07:38:32 PM
- 1139 Views
I'm purposefully trying to not be so focussed on ranagrande
21/02/2010 11:06:40 PM
- 1229 Views
Not sure I follow
22/02/2010 06:49:11 PM
- 1239 Views
Items of note from my NB archive:
21/02/2010 09:37:49 PM
- 1305 Views
I am kind of confused about what you're doing here.
22/02/2010 07:20:49 PM
- 1351 Views
I'm feeling the same thing.
22/02/2010 07:36:46 PM
- 1186 Views
I hadn't even seen Beet's post at the bottom there until after I'd posted this.
22/02/2010 07:44:49 PM
- 1171 Views
Re: Rafo Mafia 4 Day 2
22/02/2010 12:09:20 PM
- 1260 Views
Alright. Here's a quick synposis
22/02/2010 07:54:19 PM
- 1233 Views
That sounds about right to me.
22/02/2010 07:58:29 PM
- 1197 Views
I'll try to, I just may not have the time to. If I do, I'll definately read them all. *NM*
23/02/2010 07:05:24 AM
- 615 Views
Another minor piece against ranagrande
22/02/2010 07:13:44 PM
- 1259 Views
Re: Another minor piece against ranagrande
22/02/2010 08:23:48 PM
- 1363 Views
Fair enough
22/02/2010 08:38:51 PM
- 1311 Views
Re: Fair enough
22/02/2010 09:07:57 PM
- 1164 Views
Maybe I missed it....
22/02/2010 09:26:47 PM
- 1280 Views
Re: Maybe I missed it....
23/02/2010 09:38:23 PM
- 1134 Views
I will destroy the world
23/02/2010 11:17:26 PM
- 1275 Views
And yet, that's the exact same thing you called me out on yesterday. *NM*
24/02/2010 01:07:07 AM
- 574 Views
Ok, that's totally different...
24/02/2010 06:36:00 AM
- 1129 Views
All that's different is the presumed final intent.
24/02/2010 12:36:32 PM
- 1244 Views
Yeah ... those are pretty much the same. *NM*
24/02/2010 03:17:25 PM
- 581 Views
Yea.... beet's looking worse and worse every time he opens his mouth, so to speak. *NM*
24/02/2010 09:00:47 PM
- 678 Views
No, this is my view:
24/02/2010 11:23:25 PM
- 1264 Views
And my view was:
25/02/2010 01:29:13 AM
- 1151 Views
shrug. I haven't been attacking you today, you know
25/02/2010 01:46:39 AM
- 1224 Views
Vote: Fox and Ravens *NM*
24/02/2010 04:51:24 AM
- 672 Views
Can I ask why?
24/02/2010 05:06:22 AM
- 1166 Views
We're sort of in a holding pattern here, Hieshyn
25/02/2010 07:01:23 PM
- 1325 Views
You're right, Isaac.
25/02/2010 08:47:03 PM
- 1330 Views
Though I presume this was already somewhat obvious, ^Seconded. *NM*
25/02/2010 08:56:19 PM
- 582 Views
I'll agree. Beet has been suspicious, and we havent found enough with ranagrande to continue *NM*
26/02/2010 02:00:36 AM
- 704 Views
At first I thought he was going for a F&R-style trap
26/02/2010 01:44:16 AM
- 1228 Views
RBIRL. Had a lot of school stuff, gone for the weekend. Sorry. *NM*
27/02/2010 01:05:40 AM
- 676 Views
Sorry I've been insanely busy.
27/02/2010 03:33:43 AM
- 1314 Views
This seems a lot like an OMGUS.
27/02/2010 07:02:12 AM
- 1117 Views
Re: Sorry I've been insanely busy.
27/02/2010 07:06:39 AM
- 1204 Views
Okay, let's try to finish off today
27/02/2010 07:27:09 PM
- 1225 Views
Interesting.
27/02/2010 09:28:33 PM
- 1146 Views
I sort of assumed everyone knew where I'm aiming, I've been pretty open about it
27/02/2010 09:45:50 PM
- 1192 Views
Vote: ranagrande
27/02/2010 09:12:51 PM
- 1150 Views
What, if anything, has changed?
28/02/2010 03:19:49 AM
- 1164 Views
Dang, I didn't know you could make text larger. Fancy! *NM*
28/02/2010 04:57:28 AM
- 641 Views
A little joke
28/02/2010 05:16:14 AM
- 1762 Views
Yikes (warning: lots of text)
28/02/2010 12:35:16 AM
- 1165 Views
Guess I'll set up the other camp: Vote: beetnemesis
28/02/2010 03:22:49 AM
- 1157 Views
my stance on voting
01/03/2010 03:08:33 AM
- 1283 Views
Re: my stance on voting
01/03/2010 03:21:32 AM
- 1312 Views
Perhaps a deadline would liven things up?
02/03/2010 08:46:35 PM
- 1153 Views
I hope you all feel really guilty about this
03/03/2010 06:22:57 AM
- 1054 Views
Not likely, we're pretty draconian about lynches these days
03/03/2010 09:15:00 AM
- 1049 Views
..I can and HAVE rebutted these.
03/03/2010 05:15:32 PM
- 1123 Views
EBWOP: I need to start hitting preview to make sure the formatting is right.
03/03/2010 05:18:43 PM
- 1096 Views
I'm sorry, I am not convinced
03/03/2010 11:16:36 PM
- 1049 Views
I figured it'd be meaningless to RC, but ok...
04/03/2010 01:54:36 AM
- 1133 Views
All right, let's look at this
04/03/2010 02:06:58 AM
- 1253 Views
I find this very, very, very, VERY unlikely.
04/03/2010 05:25:41 AM
- 1269 Views
At this point I feel like anything I could say would only hurt my case
04/03/2010 06:34:43 AM
- 1196 Views
You brought this upon yourself.
03/03/2010 01:06:58 PM
- 1137 Views
Are you a Town Roleblocker? (Table) - Summary: All 'No'
04/03/2010 02:28:55 AM
- 1286 Views
Well, I don't think there is much point in further delay
04/03/2010 11:44:57 PM
- 1044 Views
I think that's everyone.
05/03/2010 04:39:23 AM
- 1064 Views
Well, Beet already hammered.
05/03/2010 06:44:08 AM
- 1152 Views
Beetnemesis has been lynched
05/03/2010 05:38:05 PM
- 1205 Views
Sorry Beet!
*NM*
06/03/2010 05:11:56 AM
- 662 Views

You shall be the only one I don't haunt *NM*
06/03/2010 06:29:23 AM
- 586 Views
Yo, what did I do to you? *NM*
06/03/2010 06:47:51 PM
- 737 Views
I meant of those who lynched me! You shall be EXALTED!
06/03/2010 06:52:39 PM
- 1273 Views