Fair question, but it's actually pretty straightforward.
Isaac Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 04:41:18 PM
You're not seeing the odds, I think, and that causes confusion. I view FT at 50/50, coinflip, like I said. Everyone else is more like 30-70, specifically 14-1 divding the total number of baddies, which is probably four. 4/13 is 30%, 5 out of 13 is 38%, but I'd think if we had 5 then the miller claim is unlikely, since the miller role is essentially there to weaken the town, which would be weird if we had a 5 man DF faction or 4 Dfs and a SK, or 2 DFs factions, a cult, etc. Of course, this all relies on two assumptions, first that Gher generated a fair game (highly likely but if not there's nothing we can do so it's not worht contemplating) and second that nothing incredibly bizarre is part of the setup (which is also not worth contemplating at this stage since we can't expect our guesswork there to be very fruitful) which is why I'd guess 4 at this stage, giving me 30%.
So targeting FT is really just statistics, unable to decide if he's DF or town, considering both options equal, puts him at 50%. I consider anyone who is above the estimated norm (in this case 30%) to be a legtiimate candidate for lynching. I hope that clarifies things.
I do want to emphasize I've no objection to people pursuing other inquiries, I encourage, but this is where my crosshairs are right now so while I'll be glad to debate the merits of another candidate I myself do not plan to go hunting for any at this time. Give me a better option and I'll vote accordingly.
Now, there are some add-ons that further elevate FT, not in terms of guilt but in terms of acceptability as a lynchee. We of course, can not determine his guilt without kjilling him so as is often the case we don't just want a high-prob DF but a lynch which if flawed (dead townie) has the minimum fallout or otherwise profits us. i.e. two equally dubious claims, one as vanilla and one as a useful role, you lynch the vanilla because if you're wrong there is less damage, and as subsequent RCs come in you tend to be in a better position to evaluate the probability of role claim anyway.
Let us assume FT is not a DF, that he is a miller, which again I place at 50%
Positives of lynching him - if claim true
Confirms we have a cop
Removes a role no more valuable and arguably much less valuable than a vanilla
Discourages future use of miller claims and likely discourages mods from inserting self-aware millers
Confirms the existence of a miller thus indicating a game balance that is protown
Prevents risk of exposure of roles by defensive RC or let the DFs narrow it down.
Likely highlights some players who were supporting him as pro-town.
Gives us a vote record which is not based off a near-random vote, which is more likely to be useful.
Negatives of lynching FT - if claim true
Essentially circumvents furthering questioning today, protecting roles but also protecting DFs
Removes one of the better players from circulation.
Anyone is welcome to add on to those, but the ones listed seem fairly indisputeable, again, those are if FT is innocent, obviously the advantage if he is not is a dead DF/SK/etc with possible indicators of alliances to other players.
So targeting FT is really just statistics, unable to decide if he's DF or town, considering both options equal, puts him at 50%. I consider anyone who is above the estimated norm (in this case 30%) to be a legtiimate candidate for lynching. I hope that clarifies things.
I do want to emphasize I've no objection to people pursuing other inquiries, I encourage, but this is where my crosshairs are right now so while I'll be glad to debate the merits of another candidate I myself do not plan to go hunting for any at this time. Give me a better option and I'll vote accordingly.
Now, there are some add-ons that further elevate FT, not in terms of guilt but in terms of acceptability as a lynchee. We of course, can not determine his guilt without kjilling him so as is often the case we don't just want a high-prob DF but a lynch which if flawed (dead townie) has the minimum fallout or otherwise profits us. i.e. two equally dubious claims, one as vanilla and one as a useful role, you lynch the vanilla because if you're wrong there is less damage, and as subsequent RCs come in you tend to be in a better position to evaluate the probability of role claim anyway.
Let us assume FT is not a DF, that he is a miller, which again I place at 50%
Positives of lynching him - if claim true
Confirms we have a cop
Removes a role no more valuable and arguably much less valuable than a vanilla
Discourages future use of miller claims and likely discourages mods from inserting self-aware millers
Confirms the existence of a miller thus indicating a game balance that is protown
Prevents risk of exposure of roles by defensive RC or let the DFs narrow it down.
Likely highlights some players who were supporting him as pro-town.
Gives us a vote record which is not based off a near-random vote, which is more likely to be useful.
Negatives of lynching FT - if claim true
Essentially circumvents furthering questioning today, protecting roles but also protecting DFs
Removes one of the better players from circulation.
Anyone is welcome to add on to those, but the ones listed seem fairly indisputeable, again, those are if FT is innocent, obviously the advantage if he is not is a dead DF/SK/etc with possible indicators of alliances to other players.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Rafo Mafia 4: Day 1 has ended.
27/01/2010 05:53:50 PM
- 3132 Views
This is a confirmation of the prompt receival of said role message.
27/01/2010 08:30:45 PM
- 1265 Views
You made it up
27/01/2010 09:01:31 PM
- 1224 Views
Hmm ...
27/01/2010 09:21:59 PM
- 1311 Views
Ha.
28/01/2010 01:28:27 AM
- 1154 Views
It sounds like a real word.
28/01/2010 01:55:58 AM
- 1237 Views
You know, I'm still irritated we haven't been able to come up with a good R1 system
28/01/2010 07:08:22 AM
- 1186 Views
Well, lacking anything else...
28/01/2010 11:58:25 PM
- 1338 Views
I haven't the faintest idea what they mean.
29/01/2010 01:30:19 AM
- 1268 Views
Not really
29/01/2010 02:27:05 AM
- 1304 Views
Let's try something
29/01/2010 02:47:30 AM
- 1217 Views
alrighty then
29/01/2010 03:29:51 AM
- 1275 Views
That's sufficient, thanks
29/01/2010 03:48:11 AM
- 1133 Views
Yea, my message has all that.
29/01/2010 03:56:52 AM
- 1287 Views
Probably
29/01/2010 04:10:42 AM
- 1196 Views
Re: Probably
29/01/2010 07:30:48 AM
- 1151 Views
True- most DFs would wait a bit, and be like the 4th or 5th to jump in
29/01/2010 08:19:43 AM
- 1223 Views
I've got MPD
29/01/2010 04:22:00 AM
- 1242 Views
Surprise, surprise: I do too.
29/01/2010 06:21:04 AM
- 1204 Views
Remember when we killed the Serial Killer on Day 1? That was fun. Let's do that! *NM*
29/01/2010 08:20:24 AM
- 764 Views
I have MPD and number under 14. *NM*
29/01/2010 06:18:59 AM
- 833 Views
I like to think of the first kill as a sacrifice to the Gods of Mafia
30/01/2010 04:14:17 AM
- 1203 Views
Re: I like to think of the first kill as a sacrifice to the Gods of Mafia
30/01/2010 04:27:53 AM
- 1191 Views
High priests cannot be sacrificed!
30/01/2010 04:53:38 PM
- 1148 Views
Some cultures, they make the best sacrifices
30/01/2010 05:47:46 PM
- 1231 Views
I want to roleclaim.
30/01/2010 07:08:11 PM
- 1214 Views
That is, well, surprising
30/01/2010 08:28:04 PM
- 1282 Views
Yeah, but I think it's best to do it now.
30/01/2010 09:38:49 PM
- 1167 Views
Hm. I wonder if we're all robots inside of a Mafia simulator. *NM*
30/01/2010 11:20:25 PM
- 702 Views
Well, I'm back...
31/01/2010 01:43:17 AM
- 1217 Views
Why do fencers keep appearing without me knowing of it?!?
31/01/2010 02:48:22 AM
- 1229 Views
Oh, and I had my first real tournament today...
31/01/2010 03:23:45 AM
- 1235 Views
Eh. Just don't listen to Issac too much.
31/01/2010 04:47:53 AM
- 1191 Views
I wanna say F-T, just cause I hate Millers.
31/01/2010 05:10:07 AM
- 1181 Views
But do you think a DF would try something that DFs already did in the game we just played?
31/01/2010 05:53:24 AM
- 1209 Views
And on a third hand...
31/01/2010 07:00:22 AM
- 1287 Views
So... back to neutral. *NM*
31/01/2010 03:27:58 PM
- 657 Views
You don't find that statement dubious?
31/01/2010 04:14:47 PM
- 1190 Views
I knew Yunalseca was a Darkfriend...
31/01/2010 07:17:33 PM
- 1169 Views
Everyone! Deep breaths...
31/01/2010 11:50:39 PM
- 1179 Views
That's a pretty big thing to forget though.
01/02/2010 01:39:44 AM
- 1154 Views
Who said anything about forgetting?
01/02/2010 02:53:49 AM
- 1221 Views
It brings you protection from guilty Cop results. *NM*
01/02/2010 03:01:22 AM
- 841 Views
No...
01/02/2010 06:25:07 AM
- 1214 Views
Man... I hate defending people I'm not sure about
01/02/2010 07:14:13 AM
- 1209 Views
I agree with beet here.
01/02/2010 07:42:12 AM
- 1171 Views
Offer alternatives then
01/02/2010 11:18:47 AM
- 1229 Views
I didn't mean we shouldn't reference strategies from earlier games
01/02/2010 02:23:26 PM
- 1217 Views
I agree, more or less
31/01/2010 05:55:11 AM
- 1246 Views
Re: I agree, more or less
31/01/2010 03:34:10 PM
- 1238 Views
Tracker is a role that sees who his target performs a Night Action on...
31/01/2010 03:49:24 PM
- 1092 Views
Re: I agree, more or less
31/01/2010 04:19:33 PM
- 1176 Views
Eh. I think this is going to end like Hopper.
31/01/2010 11:58:52 PM
- 1183 Views
What I don't like is the fact that Millers are often not told they're Millers.
01/02/2010 12:08:14 AM
- 1208 Views
Well, he could still be Mafia and have appropriate flavor.
01/02/2010 01:46:58 AM
- 1204 Views
We can't just lynch Isaac on the off chance that he might be a DF.
31/01/2010 05:42:08 AM
- 1208 Views
Alright, from my reading,
31/01/2010 10:53:52 PM
- 1199 Views
RE: I didn't mean we shouldn't reference strategies from earlier games (horizontal scroll avoidance)
01/02/2010 02:46:35 PM
- 1296 Views
I really just meant that I don't think F-T's claim of not knowing about Yuna's claim is
01/02/2010 06:16:11 PM
- 1183 Views
You still haven't explained what the purpose of such a lie would be.
01/02/2010 07:15:35 PM
- 1142 Views
I think the rationale was this:
01/02/2010 07:38:41 PM
- 1113 Views
Beg Pardon?
01/02/2010 08:07:20 PM
- 1184 Views
It's true, Isaac likes to be a leader, rather than a doer. *NM*
01/02/2010 11:17:02 PM
- 733 Views
Coward. *NM*
01/02/2010 11:17:21 PM
- 766 Views
Er... what just happened, here? *NM*
02/02/2010 12:55:51 AM
- 806 Views
I made a pointless post, decided to turn it into a semi-sarcastic insult.
02/02/2010 01:27:48 AM
- 1183 Views
There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 09:20:57 PM
- 1185 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 10:03:57 PM
- 1196 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 10:33:49 PM
- 1267 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 11:11:37 PM
- 1232 Views
Maybe you should ask one of the others to explain this to me
02/02/2010 12:01:48 AM
- 1160 Views
Re: Maybe you should ask one of the others to explain this to me
02/02/2010 01:15:41 AM
- 1200 Views
Right, so: A New Target
01/02/2010 08:03:28 PM
- 1338 Views
Re: Right, so: A New Target
01/02/2010 08:20:06 PM
- 1124 Views
Re: Right, so: A New Target *NM*
01/02/2010 08:48:25 PM
- 671 Views
Message get eaten? *NM*
01/02/2010 09:21:34 PM
- 709 Views
Apparantly... It was just a minor thing, lemme see if I remember...
02/02/2010 12:44:28 AM
- 1202 Views
Right, so: Defending Myself
01/02/2010 11:30:38 PM
- 1299 Views
Hmm...more accusations beyond beet's
02/02/2010 06:02:51 AM
- 1157 Views
Fair question, but it's actually pretty straightforward.
02/02/2010 04:41:18 PM
- 1322 Views
Your logic isn't terrible...
02/02/2010 04:54:54 PM
- 1107 Views
Re: Your logic isn't terrible...
02/02/2010 05:42:43 PM
- 1155 Views
Re: The random thing
02/02/2010 04:59:42 PM
- 1339 Views
Nah, I anticipated this would make me the prime lynch candidate.
02/02/2010 08:48:19 PM
- 1286 Views
Re: Nah, I anticipated this would make me the prime lynch candidate.
02/02/2010 09:23:43 PM
- 1187 Views
Okay, so I've been reading, but I kept meaning to post on my comp. Sorry.
02/02/2010 06:21:12 AM
- 1232 Views
I never tried to stop any discussion
02/02/2010 12:46:54 PM
- 1216 Views
Like I said, I don't find it very suspicious, but it was just something I had seen.
02/02/2010 11:14:53 PM
- 1224 Views
Kronin is at least as suspicious as Issac, or F-T
02/02/2010 05:09:56 PM
- 1203 Views
That's pretty bold claim of intention.
02/02/2010 05:18:40 PM
- 1180 Views
Vote: Fanatic-Templar
03/02/2010 04:36:52 AM
- 1270 Views
Re: Vote: Fanatic-Templar
03/02/2010 03:13:57 PM
- 1307 Views
Speaking of time...
03/02/2010 03:28:42 PM
- 1255 Views
Only if it starts to grind to a halt. *NM*
03/02/2010 04:50:32 PM
- 785 Views
Re: Only if it starts to grind to a halt.
03/02/2010 06:52:54 PM
- 1262 Views
Er... IS it active? I feel like we've kinda exhausted everything
03/02/2010 11:19:29 PM
- 1132 Views
Hahaha. well, it was!
04/02/2010 12:59:13 AM
- 1143 Views
"No lynch" is a bad idea. At the very least, let's lynch someone random *NM*
04/02/2010 04:07:00 AM
- 721 Views
Everybody knows my perspective on no lynches...or at least I suspect they do. *NM*
04/02/2010 04:09:17 AM
- 785 Views
So you'd rather lynch someone random over F-T? Why?
04/02/2010 04:35:40 AM
- 1254 Views
Because I think F-T is almost definitely not a DF
04/02/2010 06:58:15 AM
- 1216 Views
Re: Because I think F-T is almost definitely not a DF
04/02/2010 07:07:37 AM
- 1100 Views
Well, yeah- a chance of getting a DF is better than no chance at all
04/02/2010 07:04:27 PM
- 1200 Views
But there is a chance F-T is a DF.
04/02/2010 07:34:37 PM
- 1157 Views
Fair enough...
04/02/2010 07:49:26 PM
- 1156 Views
I agree with D_K actually
04/02/2010 08:32:09 PM
- 1237 Views
You think F-T has less than a 29% (4/14) chance to be a DF?
04/02/2010 08:55:34 PM
- 1125 Views
If a given random person is 30%, then yes, I think F-T is 29% or less
04/02/2010 11:20:26 PM
- 1216 Views
I regret that I have only one life to give to the Light...
04/02/2010 11:00:56 PM
- 1222 Views
You know, you're still at L-3.
04/02/2010 11:14:40 PM
- 1382 Views
L-2, as it were.
04/02/2010 11:41:10 PM
- 1164 Views
Just had to make me incorrect?
04/02/2010 11:55:02 PM
- 1128 Views
I couldn't resist. *NM*
05/02/2010 01:07:59 AM
- 724 Views
05/02/2010 01:15:51 AM
- 1235 Views
Yeah, but I wasn't sure if I'd still be alive next time I came around .
05/02/2010 03:12:19 AM
- 1161 Views
05/02/2010 12:20:04 AM
- 1237 Views
I don't anyone will target you with a night action tonight, frankly.
05/02/2010 03:14:26 AM
- 1212 Views