And because I remember watching last game from the All-Knowing Mod Seat, seeing Yuna claim Miller to cover her DF accusations (silly her, there wasn't even a true cop)
Better than the alternative, I'd suggested she pick the jailkeeper role
The problem is you simply can't verify a miller claim, except by RBing and copping them, assuming you have a RB (unlikely as town) and the RB would work (unliklely by our default house rules on passive and active).
A Miller (sometimes called an Outsider) is typified as a member of the town with an air of corruption and/or suspicion surrounding him. Thus a Miller acts like a normal Townie in every way except for one important feature: whenever a Cop investigates a Miller, the Moderator returns a guilty result, even though the Miller is pro-Town.
Sometimes an important part of a Miller role is that the player is not told this aspect of their role. Rather the Moderator assigns one person to be the Miller, but only tells him/her that the role is a vanilla townie. Thus, the Miller cannot simply claim their role Day 1 as a prevention against lynching.
Now, the miller isn't too bad a role when the miller doesn't know, because then you get a 'is the cop sane' conundrum, on the off chance the cop checks them out. The cop rarely investigates more than a quarter or third of the players. But a miller who knows, up front? I'd rather we killed FT even if he's telling the truth, just to keep this from happening again, if we kill day 1 miller claims on sight, people will stop claiming it and mods will stop including it except as 'I don't know'.
I don't think Gher would have overlooked that problem, he would have read the role over at some point, probably rereading it before fielding it, and I can't see him ignoring that over half the entry deals with how it is advised not to field the miller in this fashion, it was a major reason my heart skipped a beat when Yuna claimed it. I was waiting for someone to ask 'how do you even know?'
Now, tack this on to it, Gher is the mod, he prepped the game before the game ended and didn't know if Yuna was a miller anymore than anyone else. It is a fairly uncommon role and we rarely include uncommon roles two games in a row. This is his first mod, it would be strange for him to copy any part of the previous game, IMO. Maybe if he radically changed his game design between post-game and the start, then he might have thought 'Heck, let's give them a real miller this time', but I don't think so, he's been waiting to mod for a while now and he had nearly two months dead to prepare a game knowing his mod turn was coming up.
Would FT have RC'd as a miller if he were one? Yes, I think so. Would FT have done this as a tactic? Yes, he knows all too well that the best tactics, the only ones worth pursuing, have to be unexpected, that a DF's goal is to starty looking clean on day 1. I know it's a strategy a DF might pursue because I've considered using it on many occassions. It would only work one time, but who cares? If you're the one using it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Rafo Mafia 4: Day 1 has ended.
27/01/2010 05:53:50 PM
- 3181 Views
This is a confirmation of the prompt receival of said role message.
27/01/2010 08:30:45 PM
- 1303 Views
You made it up
27/01/2010 09:01:31 PM
- 1259 Views
Hmm ...
27/01/2010 09:21:59 PM
- 1349 Views
Ha.
28/01/2010 01:28:27 AM
- 1186 Views
It sounds like a real word.
28/01/2010 01:55:58 AM
- 1274 Views
You know, I'm still irritated we haven't been able to come up with a good R1 system
28/01/2010 07:08:22 AM
- 1227 Views
Well, lacking anything else...
28/01/2010 11:58:25 PM
- 1391 Views
I haven't the faintest idea what they mean.
29/01/2010 01:30:19 AM
- 1306 Views
Not really
29/01/2010 02:27:05 AM
- 1341 Views
Let's try something
29/01/2010 02:47:30 AM
- 1254 Views
alrighty then
29/01/2010 03:29:51 AM
- 1314 Views
That's sufficient, thanks
29/01/2010 03:48:11 AM
- 1171 Views
Yea, my message has all that.
29/01/2010 03:56:52 AM
- 1325 Views
Probably
29/01/2010 04:10:42 AM
- 1239 Views
Re: Probably
29/01/2010 07:30:48 AM
- 1194 Views
True- most DFs would wait a bit, and be like the 4th or 5th to jump in
29/01/2010 08:19:43 AM
- 1256 Views
I've got MPD
29/01/2010 04:22:00 AM
- 1284 Views
Surprise, surprise: I do too.
29/01/2010 06:21:04 AM
- 1243 Views
Remember when we killed the Serial Killer on Day 1? That was fun. Let's do that! *NM*
29/01/2010 08:20:24 AM
- 776 Views
I have MPD and number under 14. *NM*
29/01/2010 06:18:59 AM
- 847 Views
I like to think of the first kill as a sacrifice to the Gods of Mafia
30/01/2010 04:14:17 AM
- 1251 Views
Re: I like to think of the first kill as a sacrifice to the Gods of Mafia
30/01/2010 04:27:53 AM
- 1231 Views
High priests cannot be sacrificed!
30/01/2010 04:53:38 PM
- 1178 Views
Some cultures, they make the best sacrifices
30/01/2010 05:47:46 PM
- 1269 Views
I want to roleclaim.
30/01/2010 07:08:11 PM
- 1244 Views
That is, well, surprising
30/01/2010 08:28:04 PM
- 1322 Views
Yeah, but I think it's best to do it now.
30/01/2010 09:38:49 PM
- 1198 Views
Hm. I wonder if we're all robots inside of a Mafia simulator. *NM*
30/01/2010 11:20:25 PM
- 721 Views
Well, I'm back...
31/01/2010 01:43:17 AM
- 1251 Views
Why do fencers keep appearing without me knowing of it?!?
31/01/2010 02:48:22 AM
- 1270 Views
Oh, and I had my first real tournament today...
31/01/2010 03:23:45 AM
- 1276 Views
Eh. Just don't listen to Issac too much.
31/01/2010 04:47:53 AM
- 1229 Views
I wanna say F-T, just cause I hate Millers.
31/01/2010 05:10:07 AM
- 1210 Views
But do you think a DF would try something that DFs already did in the game we just played?
31/01/2010 05:53:24 AM
- 1249 Views
And on a third hand...
31/01/2010 07:00:22 AM
- 1323 Views
So... back to neutral. *NM*
31/01/2010 03:27:58 PM
- 676 Views
You don't find that statement dubious?
31/01/2010 04:14:47 PM
- 1231 Views
I knew Yunalseca was a Darkfriend...
31/01/2010 07:17:33 PM
- 1210 Views
Everyone! Deep breaths...
31/01/2010 11:50:39 PM
- 1222 Views
That's a pretty big thing to forget though.
01/02/2010 01:39:44 AM
- 1197 Views
Who said anything about forgetting?
01/02/2010 02:53:49 AM
- 1265 Views
It brings you protection from guilty Cop results. *NM*
01/02/2010 03:01:22 AM
- 854 Views
No...
01/02/2010 06:25:07 AM
- 1253 Views
Man... I hate defending people I'm not sure about
01/02/2010 07:14:13 AM
- 1246 Views
I agree with beet here.
01/02/2010 07:42:12 AM
- 1218 Views
Offer alternatives then
01/02/2010 11:18:47 AM
- 1264 Views
I didn't mean we shouldn't reference strategies from earlier games
01/02/2010 02:23:26 PM
- 1256 Views
I agree, more or less
31/01/2010 05:55:11 AM
- 1289 Views
Re: I agree, more or less
31/01/2010 03:34:10 PM
- 1289 Views
Tracker is a role that sees who his target performs a Night Action on...
31/01/2010 03:49:24 PM
- 1141 Views
Re: I agree, more or less
31/01/2010 04:19:33 PM
- 1217 Views
Eh. I think this is going to end like Hopper.
31/01/2010 11:58:52 PM
- 1222 Views
What I don't like is the fact that Millers are often not told they're Millers.
01/02/2010 12:08:14 AM
- 1246 Views
Well, he could still be Mafia and have appropriate flavor.
01/02/2010 01:46:58 AM
- 1244 Views
We can't just lynch Isaac on the off chance that he might be a DF.
31/01/2010 05:42:08 AM
- 1238 Views
Alright, from my reading,
31/01/2010 10:53:52 PM
- 1245 Views
RE: I didn't mean we shouldn't reference strategies from earlier games (horizontal scroll avoidance)
01/02/2010 02:46:35 PM
- 1346 Views
I really just meant that I don't think F-T's claim of not knowing about Yuna's claim is
01/02/2010 06:16:11 PM
- 1224 Views
You still haven't explained what the purpose of such a lie would be.
01/02/2010 07:15:35 PM
- 1189 Views
I think the rationale was this:
01/02/2010 07:38:41 PM
- 1156 Views
Beg Pardon?
01/02/2010 08:07:20 PM
- 1220 Views
It's true, Isaac likes to be a leader, rather than a doer. *NM*
01/02/2010 11:17:02 PM
- 747 Views
Coward. *NM*
01/02/2010 11:17:21 PM
- 779 Views
Er... what just happened, here? *NM*
02/02/2010 12:55:51 AM
- 817 Views
I made a pointless post, decided to turn it into a semi-sarcastic insult.
02/02/2010 01:27:48 AM
- 1222 Views
There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 09:20:57 PM
- 1224 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 10:03:57 PM
- 1236 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 10:33:49 PM
- 1304 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 11:11:37 PM
- 1268 Views
Maybe you should ask one of the others to explain this to me
02/02/2010 12:01:48 AM
- 1197 Views
Re: Maybe you should ask one of the others to explain this to me
02/02/2010 01:15:41 AM
- 1244 Views
Right, so: A New Target
01/02/2010 08:03:28 PM
- 1386 Views
Re: Right, so: A New Target
01/02/2010 08:20:06 PM
- 1164 Views
Re: Right, so: A New Target *NM*
01/02/2010 08:48:25 PM
- 682 Views
Message get eaten? *NM*
01/02/2010 09:21:34 PM
- 726 Views
Apparantly... It was just a minor thing, lemme see if I remember...
02/02/2010 12:44:28 AM
- 1245 Views
Right, so: Defending Myself
01/02/2010 11:30:38 PM
- 1335 Views
Hmm...more accusations beyond beet's
02/02/2010 06:02:51 AM
- 1196 Views
Fair question, but it's actually pretty straightforward.
02/02/2010 04:41:18 PM
- 1355 Views
Your logic isn't terrible...
02/02/2010 04:54:54 PM
- 1148 Views
Re: Your logic isn't terrible...
02/02/2010 05:42:43 PM
- 1207 Views
Re: The random thing
02/02/2010 04:59:42 PM
- 1378 Views
Nah, I anticipated this would make me the prime lynch candidate.
02/02/2010 08:48:19 PM
- 1329 Views
Re: Nah, I anticipated this would make me the prime lynch candidate.
02/02/2010 09:23:43 PM
- 1225 Views
Okay, so I've been reading, but I kept meaning to post on my comp. Sorry.
02/02/2010 06:21:12 AM
- 1268 Views
I never tried to stop any discussion
02/02/2010 12:46:54 PM
- 1255 Views
Like I said, I don't find it very suspicious, but it was just something I had seen.
02/02/2010 11:14:53 PM
- 1266 Views
Kronin is at least as suspicious as Issac, or F-T
02/02/2010 05:09:56 PM
- 1242 Views
That's pretty bold claim of intention.
02/02/2010 05:18:40 PM
- 1225 Views
Vote: Fanatic-Templar
03/02/2010 04:36:52 AM
- 1310 Views
Re: Vote: Fanatic-Templar
03/02/2010 03:13:57 PM
- 1342 Views
Speaking of time...
03/02/2010 03:28:42 PM
- 1290 Views
Only if it starts to grind to a halt. *NM*
03/02/2010 04:50:32 PM
- 802 Views
Re: Only if it starts to grind to a halt.
03/02/2010 06:52:54 PM
- 1302 Views
Er... IS it active? I feel like we've kinda exhausted everything
03/02/2010 11:19:29 PM
- 1167 Views
Hahaha. well, it was!
04/02/2010 12:59:13 AM
- 1182 Views
"No lynch" is a bad idea. At the very least, let's lynch someone random *NM*
04/02/2010 04:07:00 AM
- 738 Views
Everybody knows my perspective on no lynches...or at least I suspect they do. *NM*
04/02/2010 04:09:17 AM
- 798 Views
So you'd rather lynch someone random over F-T? Why?
04/02/2010 04:35:40 AM
- 1293 Views
Because I think F-T is almost definitely not a DF
04/02/2010 06:58:15 AM
- 1259 Views
Re: Because I think F-T is almost definitely not a DF
04/02/2010 07:07:37 AM
- 1146 Views
Well, yeah- a chance of getting a DF is better than no chance at all
04/02/2010 07:04:27 PM
- 1240 Views
But there is a chance F-T is a DF.
04/02/2010 07:34:37 PM
- 1198 Views
Fair enough...
04/02/2010 07:49:26 PM
- 1196 Views
I agree with D_K actually
04/02/2010 08:32:09 PM
- 1279 Views
You think F-T has less than a 29% (4/14) chance to be a DF?
04/02/2010 08:55:34 PM
- 1161 Views
If a given random person is 30%, then yes, I think F-T is 29% or less
04/02/2010 11:20:26 PM
- 1245 Views
I regret that I have only one life to give to the Light...
04/02/2010 11:00:56 PM
- 1263 Views
You know, you're still at L-3.
04/02/2010 11:14:40 PM
- 1428 Views
L-2, as it were.
04/02/2010 11:41:10 PM
- 1211 Views
Just had to make me incorrect?
04/02/2010 11:55:02 PM
- 1176 Views
I couldn't resist. *NM*
05/02/2010 01:07:59 AM
- 746 Views
05/02/2010 01:15:51 AM
- 1278 Views
Yeah, but I wasn't sure if I'd still be alive next time I came around .
05/02/2010 03:12:19 AM
- 1197 Views
05/02/2010 12:20:04 AM
- 1286 Views
I don't anyone will target you with a night action tonight, frankly.
05/02/2010 03:14:26 AM
- 1242 Views