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The case on Beetnemesis Isaac Send a noteboard - 09/08/2013 05:05:32 PM

I thought I'd summarize the various points on Beet, as I see them.

1) He was originally flagged as suspicious for minimal participation, considered an anti-town action. He came up lowest in 4 methods:

A) Post Count: 4
B) Non-NM Postcount: 0
C) Wordcount: 24
D) Artsapat's relvance method: 1 (Answered the three questions)

2) Upon coming up topping all those methods he posted in to hypothesize about game make up, at which point I felt his suggestions strongly implied he possessed some game relevant information as the suggestions were otherwise random and counter-indicated by the minimal knowledge of the game we had. The principle theories raised focused on multiple scum factions, a rare thing in a game of this size and while grounds for a mod to want many players to help absorb the extra night kills it is very definitely not a reason for a Mod to want 12 players. All options focused on an abnormally powerful scum faction(s).

3) He accused me, on the grounds I clearly thought he knew something, though he claims to know nothing. This accusation to be logically coherent would require A) That he had guessed and guessed correctly and B) That I was a scummer and C) that I would believe he had not guessed and D) That with all of these I would tip my hand so out of character and incredibly clumsily of fashions. All 4 of these improbable conditions must be true for his accusation to be viable, and thus far he has not even confirmed the first one, he has not yet denied having extra knowledge and has IMO sought to imply he did even as he presents an accusation that can only be true if he does not.

4) He was asked by multiple players to role claim, a customary request when one is considered a primary lynch candidate, which is obviously the case. He was also reminded that any delay would damage the credibility of his claim, he has neither roleclaimed nor offered any defense or reason why he should not.

5) In his remarks he referenced being 'bussed', a term regularly used here and exclusively to refer to when a scummer votes for another scummer. Revealing slips of this nature are not unheard of even very rare, but may be sheer accident so he was asked to explain it. Rather than claiming it was an innocent slip of words he instead claimed the term did not mean that, and replied evasively when told by the two most senior players that it only means that, including citations of the mafiascum wiki and a post where he himself asked what the term meant and was told, in absolutely unambiguous language, what the term meant, by the moderator of the game herself. He was also challenged to find any use by any player if the term in which his definition was used or even a definition other than the one given. He has not done so, instead claiming that even taking note of the usage is 'grasping at straws', this is not a proper offense but is instead an attempt to discredit the accusation rather than justify his own actions.

6) His entire defense now rests on a counter-accusation at myself, claiming I am a scummer for behaving in a fashion he himself acknowledges is totally normal for me, town or scum. He has made virtually no effort to answer any questions or inquiries directed at him except as a counter-accusation at me, using as his lone piece of evidence that I suspect him for actions he claims were not suspicious even after other players have said they also found his behavior suspicious. This does not even qualify as an OMGUS vote, a counter-accusation based solely on suspicions which can be considered even somewhat reasonable is anti-town, a sit implies asking questions and inquiring about abnormal actions is itself grounds for a lynch.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Mafia 32 - No Fancy Title - Day 1 - 28/07/2013 06:46:40 PM 3511 Views
Present *NM* - 28/07/2013 07:52:29 PM 956 Views
Reporting in *NM* - 28/07/2013 09:50:47 PM 922 Views
Here. *NM* - 28/07/2013 10:42:26 PM 942 Views
Present! *NM* - 28/07/2013 11:03:03 PM 1001 Views
I stand ready. *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:36:27 AM 960 Views
Helloooooo Players! *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:54:16 AM 947 Views
So, where to begin? *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:43:48 AM 943 Views
Use lube, this is my first time! *NM* - 29/07/2013 08:26:59 AM 1002 Views
I loled *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:31:08 AM 987 Views
Just because of this comment I know he'll fit right in. - 01/08/2013 10:38:01 AM 1534 Views
Fox is being triggerhappy. *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:08:21 PM 960 Views
It's always fun on day 1! *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:37:26 PM 969 Views
RBIRL from Tuesday to Sunday - 29/07/2013 01:06:35 PM 1638 Views
I'm RBIRL from friday to sunday, myself - 29/07/2013 02:10:19 PM 1709 Views
RBIRL from Wednesday to Saturday. - 29/07/2013 02:18:47 PM 1616 Views
I'm joining the RBIRL train - 31/07/2013 01:50:55 PM 1590 Views
Present *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:53:40 PM 989 Views
apparently we got no fancy fantasy theme, but straight Mafia *NM* - 29/07/2013 03:18:18 PM 939 Views
I'm actually kinda glad. I think it was getting too...complicated for me. - 29/07/2013 03:48:33 PM 1640 Views
Agreed, but I would imagine Bergioyn might have some twists in store for us. - 29/07/2013 09:52:30 PM 1550 Views
Eh, Let's just go. IT WAS YOU THAT DID IT, WASN'T IT *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:56:49 PM 943 Views
It was you that done it, now own up! *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:41:40 PM 959 Views
Okay! I admit it! It was me! Oh wait... were you talking to or him? *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:31:30 AM 799 Views
Vote: Hobo - 30/07/2013 02:43:15 AM 1624 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 12:27:15 AM 1598 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 10:44:27 AM 1679 Views
I don't think it was - 01/08/2013 12:50:24 PM 1618 Views
If I remember correctly he had some dastatdly plot to catch the scum. - 01/08/2013 04:32:51 PM 1635 Views
He was very unclear on tha tpoint after the fact - 01/08/2013 11:27:00 PM 1674 Views
No, his plan was actually pretty good. - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 AM 1762 Views
How is that a good plan? - 06/08/2013 06:37:24 AM 1795 Views
Well, believe it or not, I swear it wasn't me this time. I blame s *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:07:38 PM 953 Views
it was probably Isaac but in the end he'll win the game *NM* - 30/07/2013 05:37:07 PM 946 Views
Rule #1: Isaac wins *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:18:38 PM 1016 Views
Rules are made to be broken. *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:51:38 PM 961 Views
But is this rule able to be broken? *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:54:22 PM 941 Views
Sure. Last time he lost was game 29. *NM* - 30/07/2013 09:32:45 PM 916 Views
Surely you recall the Marvel[ous] Siege? You were mason buddy - 01/08/2013 12:14:47 AM 1601 Views
I vaguely remember the Marvel game, but not any specifics... *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:55:24 PM 946 Views
I do... - 05/08/2013 04:25:10 AM 1579 Views
Rule #2: Isaac is always suspected, but not lynched. *NM* - 30/07/2013 10:32:57 PM 958 Views
Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 10:45:39 AM 1501 Views
Re: Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 12:18:52 PM 1671 Views
(here) *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:03:26 PM 925 Views
Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 30/07/2013 12:56:04 PM 1702 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 31/07/2013 09:19:11 AM 1722 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 10:50:16 AM 1551 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 12:11:33 AM 1579 Views
Activate! *NM* - 31/07/2013 03:03:50 AM 933 Views
Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 10:35:51 AM 1567 Views
Re: Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 11:06:23 AM 1601 Views
Okay, getting moving (Table) - 01/08/2013 11:45:30 PM 1708 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 02/08/2013 02:32:52 AM 916 Views
Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 08:54:12 AM 1635 Views
Re: Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 09:50:24 AM 1540 Views
Yeah, my name's a real one too, just not logically related to anything in the game. *NM* - 02/08/2013 07:17:42 PM 920 Views
Same here. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:54:10 PM 887 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 02/08/2013 01:03:24 PM 894 Views
Yes, no, no *NM* - 02/08/2013 08:26:52 PM 837 Views
yes, no, no *NM* - 03/08/2013 01:10:00 AM 929 Views
would be nice if one player answered Yes, Yes. Yes now: Lie = lynch *NM* - 03/08/2013 09:12:07 AM 899 Views
Well I'm reasonably sure some of them will either answer other then yes, no, no or lie - 03/08/2013 12:29:34 PM 1608 Views
Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 09:02:49 AM 1489 Views
Re: Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 11:19:03 AM 1562 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 03/08/2013 11:06:41 PM 927 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:11 PM 798 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:47 PM 887 Views
Dangit, I hate when I double post. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:53:29 PM 939 Views
Yes, No No *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:28:03 AM 940 Views
Sorry I didn't have anything new to add... *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:29:28 AM 866 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 06/08/2013 12:46:10 AM 869 Views
I might as well Unvote before I forget - 02/08/2013 03:32:43 PM 1541 Views
EBWOP - 02/08/2013 03:33:23 PM 1508 Views
Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 05:09:47 AM 1635 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 07:32:48 AM 1555 Views
The "... and people die" part is probably accurate though *NM* - 03/08/2013 12:32:40 PM 884 Views
Correlation does not equal causation . *NM* - 03/08/2013 05:42:30 PM 916 Views
Precisely *NM* - 04/08/2013 11:22:52 AM 901 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 05/08/2013 08:31:03 PM 1624 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 06/08/2013 06:40:24 AM 1572 Views
Baaaack~ - 03/08/2013 11:26:57 PM 1573 Views
Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 07:03:07 PM 1619 Views
Well - 05/08/2013 07:25:22 PM 1540 Views
That is correct - 05/08/2013 07:35:24 PM 1572 Views
Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 09:42:23 PM 1613 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:09:48 PM 1657 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:20:02 PM 1643 Views
I posted I was back.... NLRBIRL *NM* - 05/08/2013 10:25:58 PM 849 Views
Yeah, I missed that. Sorry *NM* - 06/08/2013 03:13:11 AM 928 Views
What's the NL for? RBIRL Real Busy in Real Life, NL=? - 06/08/2013 08:56:16 AM 1603 Views
Oh, duh, "No Longer" RBIRL *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:57:15 AM 888 Views
Yup *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 PM 929 Views
would be a very awkward abbreviation - 07/08/2013 10:05:17 AM 1530 Views
Re: Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 08:26:01 PM 1705 Views
Agreed. Random lynches seem like a last resort to me. - 05/08/2013 08:55:59 PM 1623 Views
Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:52:25 AM 1688 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 06:59:26 AM 1609 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 10:01:18 AM 1613 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:56:47 PM 1705 Views
I didn't have anything either. *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:02:46 PM 925 Views
No, I'm sorry, I don't - 06/08/2013 02:33:58 PM 1662 Views
No appearance was described in my role message. *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:45:51 PM 908 Views
Nope. *NM* - 07/08/2013 07:23:00 PM 921 Views
No, nothing on appearance *NM* - 07/08/2013 09:02:11 PM 914 Views
I think we may need to contemplate some semi-random options - 06/08/2013 07:55:25 AM 1594 Views
List of remarks by the 'accused', plus some remarks on them - 06/08/2013 08:51:15 AM 1773 Views
explanation - 06/08/2013 09:05:55 AM 1644 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:47:35 AM 1656 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:59:45 AM 1688 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 01:28:49 PM 1620 Views
I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 06/08/2013 10:00:22 AM 1638 Views
Re: I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 07/08/2013 07:48:34 PM 1561 Views
Your questions - 06/08/2013 02:59:16 PM 1675 Views
I apparently answered your questions backwards - 06/08/2013 03:06:06 PM 1634 Views
I would look at it a bit differently, even if the outcome doesn't change that much - 06/08/2013 03:55:12 PM 1683 Views
Well, I'm impressed - 06/08/2013 04:11:31 PM 1580 Views
I thank you for the compliment. - 06/08/2013 09:51:54 PM 1635 Views
Re: I thank you for the compliment. - 07/08/2013 01:53:25 AM 1591 Views
Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 11:08:21 AM 1594 Views
Re: Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 01:01:55 PM 1612 Views
Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 09:46:26 PM 1664 Views
I think you just killed Beetnemesis *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:56:16 PM 907 Views
Better him than me . *NM* - 07/08/2013 11:16:29 PM 901 Views
Re: Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 11:32:12 PM 1566 Views
nice analysis - 07/08/2013 10:25:20 AM 1530 Views
Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 07:20:07 PM 1626 Views
Re: Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 08:22:47 PM 1540 Views
Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 03:37:36 PM 1529 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:11:04 PM 1576 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:43:12 PM 1624 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 05:34:04 PM 1605 Views
He really is... - 07/08/2013 04:55:59 PM 1571 Views
Re: He really is... - 07/08/2013 08:36:44 PM 1625 Views
Hm, that's not quite what I was thinking when I said that - 08/08/2013 08:49:11 PM 1501 Views
BAMF? - 07/08/2013 06:31:59 PM 1544 Views
It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:38:24 PM 1649 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:42:30 PM 1669 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:45:49 PM 1627 Views
When it comes to Marvel, it's Spidey and Deadpool all the way! X-Men. Pffft. - 07/08/2013 10:38:41 PM 1548 Views
Dr Doom was always my favorite hero in Marvel, but Deadpool is pretty cool *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:52:39 PM 863 Views
Dr Doom has cool costume, but other than that I don't know much about him. - 07/08/2013 11:37:09 PM 1548 Views
He's Marvel's Lex Luthor, only much cooler - 07/08/2013 11:48:00 PM 1539 Views
I'd actually say he's a bit more like Marvel's Superman than Marvel's Lex Luthor. - 07/08/2013 11:54:14 PM 1649 Views
I'm not a Marvel fan, but Doom is amazing. - 07/08/2013 11:52:09 PM 1538 Views
OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 04:49:33 PM 1636 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 05:44:09 PM 1642 Views
Well, you obviously know something, so out with it - 07/08/2013 06:33:04 PM 1575 Views
With that in mind... sounds like I hit too close to home, and you got sensitive - 08/08/2013 03:10:50 AM 1621 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis, Are you accusing me of being scum for pointing out your post had no substance? - 08/08/2013 03:39:25 AM 1662 Views
Re: - 08/08/2013 06:30:26 AM 1561 Views
Granted, as you yourself pointed out: attack is the best defense - 08/08/2013 08:17:31 AM 1508 Views
How often do we even have SKs? *NM* - 08/08/2013 09:39:58 AM 982 Views
This pushes it over the edge for me too. - 08/08/2013 01:13:21 PM 1564 Views
Hah. You got prickly pretty quickly. - 08/08/2013 07:39:24 PM 1577 Views
Prickly? I'm not touchy about it just suspiscious - 08/08/2013 08:01:39 PM 1539 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 06:38:45 PM 1583 Views
My feeling is that a "normal" game is pretty easy to balance - 08/08/2013 03:08:09 AM 1569 Views
re - 07/08/2013 08:36:15 PM 1575 Views
Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 04:31:26 PM 1591 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 05:44:54 PM 1580 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 07:51:09 PM 1625 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:02:45 PM 1577 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:05:52 PM 1706 Views
The thing we want to avoid is MASS roleclaim - 09/08/2013 08:30:32 AM 1504 Views
Okay, almost totally off topic but... - 07/08/2013 11:40:54 PM 1505 Views
The problem with that - 08/08/2013 08:09:56 AM 1585 Views
Re: The problem with that - 08/08/2013 05:02:56 PM 1573 Views
Reminds me of the Cairhien game a bit. - 08/08/2013 06:14:17 PM 1545 Views
That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 07:48:42 PM 1579 Views
I haaaated the Cairhien game - 08/08/2013 08:16:57 PM 1587 Views
Re: That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 09:42:25 PM 1553 Views
Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 05:51:23 PM 1530 Views
My take: - 08/08/2013 08:00:13 PM 1722 Views
Did you just admit to being a scummer? - 08/08/2013 08:04:21 PM 1593 Views
Hah, remember when I mentioned grasping at straws? - 08/08/2013 09:31:35 PM 1534 Views
We have always used the term that way, always, that and only that back to game 2 - 08/08/2013 09:44:20 PM 1613 Views
Holy crap, 4 years ago. - 09/08/2013 02:09:09 AM 1458 Views
That's when you asked and were told by the Moderator, it has come up since then many times - 09/08/2013 04:10:28 AM 1529 Views
I can't be the only person laughing at you right now - 09/08/2013 05:44:03 PM 1535 Views
I doubt anyone is laughing including yourself - 09/08/2013 06:08:41 PM 1535 Views
No, he's correct. - 08/08/2013 09:53:43 PM 1659 Views
Re: My take: - 08/08/2013 08:12:46 PM 1639 Views
To be a student of Isaac is a subtle thing - 08/08/2013 09:30:02 PM 1505 Views
sure - 08/08/2013 08:44:06 PM 1575 Views
Hmm, my thoughts, - 08/08/2013 08:56:27 PM 1650 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 10:30:22 PM 1592 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 11:18:56 PM 1632 Views
"Post count" usually acts as a tiebreaker - 09/08/2013 02:12:28 AM 1595 Views
I disagree - 09/08/2013 09:00:33 AM 1517 Views
Re: I disagree - 09/08/2013 11:25:29 AM 1525 Views
Several people have called for a roleclaim from beet - 09/08/2013 09:06:28 AM 1555 Views
I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 09:16:51 AM 1549 Views
Re: I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 03:18:38 PM 1614 Views
No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 03:49:21 PM 1523 Views
Re: No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 04:05:31 PM 1551 Views
Ah. Well that definitely explains it. *NM* - 09/08/2013 04:49:55 PM 885 Views
That's awesome. *NM* - 09/08/2013 09:21:59 PM 872 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 09/08/2013 11:48:13 AM 1498 Views
I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 05:47:23 PM 1574 Views
Re: I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 07:10:44 PM 1432 Views
OK, so the smiley was a typo - 09/08/2013 07:26:58 PM 1574 Views
I do, but - 09/08/2013 03:39:28 PM 1538 Views
RBIRL - 09/08/2013 05:50:21 AM 1572 Views
The case on Beetnemesis - 09/08/2013 05:05:32 PM 1676 Views
Ah good, time for a point-by-point rebuttal - 09/08/2013 06:04:11 PM 1576 Views
EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 06:14:25 PM 1647 Views
Actually... - 09/08/2013 06:38:26 PM 1608 Views
I can't see any difference with Isaac's "aggressiveness". *NM* - 09/08/2013 07:31:28 PM 970 Views
Re: EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 07:55:19 PM 1661 Views
Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:04:40 PM 1649 Views
Shrug, I have nothing against roleclaiming. Roleclaim: Tracker - 09/08/2013 07:33:40 PM 1572 Views
Correct me if wrong... - 09/08/2013 08:39:58 PM 1606 Views
Exactly! - 09/08/2013 11:06:25 PM 1619 Views
Wow, I'm gone for 24 hours, - 11/08/2013 12:02:38 AM 1569 Views
No, you just did everything you could to avoid it, like claiming almost no one had asked... - 09/08/2013 08:42:10 PM 1682 Views
I think you're right. - 09/08/2013 11:47:32 PM 1814 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:49:12 PM 1560 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 08:04:42 PM 1650 Views
too much mud - 09/08/2013 09:50:35 PM 1657 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis - 11/08/2013 10:32:51 AM 1749 Views
@ Mod, Vote Check - 11/08/2013 04:46:16 PM 1577 Views
That's a valid vote, I had missed it. Twilight pending. - 11/08/2013 05:36:13 PM 1564 Views
Actually, so did I. Did I hammer? - 11/08/2013 05:55:14 PM 1520 Views
Yes. *NM* - 11/08/2013 05:59:47 PM 774 Views
beetnemesis has been lynched. - 11/08/2013 05:52:43 PM 1629 Views

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