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The case on Beetnemesis Isaac Send a noteboard - 09/08/2013 05:05:32 PM

I thought I'd summarize the various points on Beet, as I see them.

1) He was originally flagged as suspicious for minimal participation, considered an anti-town action. He came up lowest in 4 methods:

A) Post Count: 4
B) Non-NM Postcount: 0
C) Wordcount: 24
D) Artsapat's relvance method: 1 (Answered the three questions)

2) Upon coming up topping all those methods he posted in to hypothesize about game make up, at which point I felt his suggestions strongly implied he possessed some game relevant information as the suggestions were otherwise random and counter-indicated by the minimal knowledge of the game we had. The principle theories raised focused on multiple scum factions, a rare thing in a game of this size and while grounds for a mod to want many players to help absorb the extra night kills it is very definitely not a reason for a Mod to want 12 players. All options focused on an abnormally powerful scum faction(s).

3) He accused me, on the grounds I clearly thought he knew something, though he claims to know nothing. This accusation to be logically coherent would require A) That he had guessed and guessed correctly and B) That I was a scummer and C) that I would believe he had not guessed and D) That with all of these I would tip my hand so out of character and incredibly clumsily of fashions. All 4 of these improbable conditions must be true for his accusation to be viable, and thus far he has not even confirmed the first one, he has not yet denied having extra knowledge and has IMO sought to imply he did even as he presents an accusation that can only be true if he does not.

4) He was asked by multiple players to role claim, a customary request when one is considered a primary lynch candidate, which is obviously the case. He was also reminded that any delay would damage the credibility of his claim, he has neither roleclaimed nor offered any defense or reason why he should not.

5) In his remarks he referenced being 'bussed', a term regularly used here and exclusively to refer to when a scummer votes for another scummer. Revealing slips of this nature are not unheard of even very rare, but may be sheer accident so he was asked to explain it. Rather than claiming it was an innocent slip of words he instead claimed the term did not mean that, and replied evasively when told by the two most senior players that it only means that, including citations of the mafiascum wiki and a post where he himself asked what the term meant and was told, in absolutely unambiguous language, what the term meant, by the moderator of the game herself. He was also challenged to find any use by any player if the term in which his definition was used or even a definition other than the one given. He has not done so, instead claiming that even taking note of the usage is 'grasping at straws', this is not a proper offense but is instead an attempt to discredit the accusation rather than justify his own actions.

6) His entire defense now rests on a counter-accusation at myself, claiming I am a scummer for behaving in a fashion he himself acknowledges is totally normal for me, town or scum. He has made virtually no effort to answer any questions or inquiries directed at him except as a counter-accusation at me, using as his lone piece of evidence that I suspect him for actions he claims were not suspicious even after other players have said they also found his behavior suspicious. This does not even qualify as an OMGUS vote, a counter-accusation based solely on suspicions which can be considered even somewhat reasonable is anti-town, a sit implies asking questions and inquiring about abnormal actions is itself grounds for a lynch.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Mafia 32 - No Fancy Title - Day 1 - 28/07/2013 06:46:40 PM 3422 Views
Present *NM* - 28/07/2013 07:52:29 PM 926 Views
Reporting in *NM* - 28/07/2013 09:50:47 PM 897 Views
Here. *NM* - 28/07/2013 10:42:26 PM 913 Views
Present! *NM* - 28/07/2013 11:03:03 PM 969 Views
I stand ready. *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:36:27 AM 929 Views
Helloooooo Players! *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:54:16 AM 916 Views
So, where to begin? *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:43:48 AM 911 Views
Use lube, this is my first time! *NM* - 29/07/2013 08:26:59 AM 973 Views
I loled *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:31:08 AM 950 Views
Just because of this comment I know he'll fit right in. - 01/08/2013 10:38:01 AM 1481 Views
Fox is being triggerhappy. *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:08:21 PM 923 Views
It's always fun on day 1! *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:37:26 PM 938 Views
RBIRL from Tuesday to Sunday - 29/07/2013 01:06:35 PM 1572 Views
I'm RBIRL from friday to sunday, myself - 29/07/2013 02:10:19 PM 1641 Views
RBIRL from Wednesday to Saturday. - 29/07/2013 02:18:47 PM 1559 Views
I'm joining the RBIRL train - 31/07/2013 01:50:55 PM 1526 Views
Present *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:53:40 PM 956 Views
apparently we got no fancy fantasy theme, but straight Mafia *NM* - 29/07/2013 03:18:18 PM 906 Views
I'm actually kinda glad. I think it was getting too...complicated for me. - 29/07/2013 03:48:33 PM 1573 Views
Agreed, but I would imagine Bergioyn might have some twists in store for us. - 29/07/2013 09:52:30 PM 1493 Views
Eh, Let's just go. IT WAS YOU THAT DID IT, WASN'T IT *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:56:49 PM 906 Views
It was you that done it, now own up! *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:41:40 PM 925 Views
Okay! I admit it! It was me! Oh wait... were you talking to or him? *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:31:30 AM 763 Views
Vote: Hobo - 30/07/2013 02:43:15 AM 1556 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 12:27:15 AM 1536 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 10:44:27 AM 1614 Views
I don't think it was - 01/08/2013 12:50:24 PM 1554 Views
If I remember correctly he had some dastatdly plot to catch the scum. - 01/08/2013 04:32:51 PM 1561 Views
He was very unclear on tha tpoint after the fact - 01/08/2013 11:27:00 PM 1615 Views
No, his plan was actually pretty good. - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 AM 1687 Views
How is that a good plan? - 06/08/2013 06:37:24 AM 1724 Views
Well, believe it or not, I swear it wasn't me this time. I blame s *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:07:38 PM 918 Views
it was probably Isaac but in the end he'll win the game *NM* - 30/07/2013 05:37:07 PM 912 Views
Rule #1: Isaac wins *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:18:38 PM 987 Views
Rules are made to be broken. *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:51:38 PM 934 Views
But is this rule able to be broken? *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:54:22 PM 913 Views
Sure. Last time he lost was game 29. *NM* - 30/07/2013 09:32:45 PM 884 Views
Surely you recall the Marvel[ous] Siege? You were mason buddy - 01/08/2013 12:14:47 AM 1543 Views
I vaguely remember the Marvel game, but not any specifics... *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:55:24 PM 909 Views
I do... - 05/08/2013 04:25:10 AM 1522 Views
Rule #2: Isaac is always suspected, but not lynched. *NM* - 30/07/2013 10:32:57 PM 922 Views
Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 10:45:39 AM 1428 Views
Re: Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 12:18:52 PM 1604 Views
(here) *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:03:26 PM 891 Views
Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 30/07/2013 12:56:04 PM 1637 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 31/07/2013 09:19:11 AM 1657 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 10:50:16 AM 1484 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 12:11:33 AM 1513 Views
Activate! *NM* - 31/07/2013 03:03:50 AM 901 Views
Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 10:35:51 AM 1506 Views
Re: Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 11:06:23 AM 1535 Views
Okay, getting moving (Table) - 01/08/2013 11:45:30 PM 1648 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 02/08/2013 02:32:52 AM 888 Views
Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 08:54:12 AM 1559 Views
Re: Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 09:50:24 AM 1481 Views
Yeah, my name's a real one too, just not logically related to anything in the game. *NM* - 02/08/2013 07:17:42 PM 888 Views
Same here. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:54:10 PM 855 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 02/08/2013 01:03:24 PM 859 Views
Yes, no, no *NM* - 02/08/2013 08:26:52 PM 809 Views
yes, no, no *NM* - 03/08/2013 01:10:00 AM 900 Views
would be nice if one player answered Yes, Yes. Yes now: Lie = lynch *NM* - 03/08/2013 09:12:07 AM 865 Views
Well I'm reasonably sure some of them will either answer other then yes, no, no or lie - 03/08/2013 12:29:34 PM 1546 Views
Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 09:02:49 AM 1426 Views
Re: Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 11:19:03 AM 1499 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 03/08/2013 11:06:41 PM 892 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:11 PM 765 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:47 PM 852 Views
Dangit, I hate when I double post. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:53:29 PM 907 Views
Yes, No No *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:28:03 AM 906 Views
Sorry I didn't have anything new to add... *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:29:28 AM 837 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 06/08/2013 12:46:10 AM 842 Views
I might as well Unvote before I forget - 02/08/2013 03:32:43 PM 1475 Views
EBWOP - 02/08/2013 03:33:23 PM 1441 Views
Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 05:09:47 AM 1575 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 07:32:48 AM 1484 Views
The "... and people die" part is probably accurate though *NM* - 03/08/2013 12:32:40 PM 853 Views
Correlation does not equal causation . *NM* - 03/08/2013 05:42:30 PM 887 Views
Precisely *NM* - 04/08/2013 11:22:52 AM 869 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 05/08/2013 08:31:03 PM 1560 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 06/08/2013 06:40:24 AM 1505 Views
Baaaack~ - 03/08/2013 11:26:57 PM 1512 Views
Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 07:03:07 PM 1551 Views
Well - 05/08/2013 07:25:22 PM 1474 Views
That is correct - 05/08/2013 07:35:24 PM 1500 Views
Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 09:42:23 PM 1551 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:09:48 PM 1591 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:20:02 PM 1587 Views
I posted I was back.... NLRBIRL *NM* - 05/08/2013 10:25:58 PM 822 Views
Yeah, I missed that. Sorry *NM* - 06/08/2013 03:13:11 AM 894 Views
What's the NL for? RBIRL Real Busy in Real Life, NL=? - 06/08/2013 08:56:16 AM 1513 Views
Oh, duh, "No Longer" RBIRL *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:57:15 AM 851 Views
Yup *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 PM 895 Views
would be a very awkward abbreviation - 07/08/2013 10:05:17 AM 1462 Views
Re: Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 08:26:01 PM 1638 Views
Agreed. Random lynches seem like a last resort to me. - 05/08/2013 08:55:59 PM 1550 Views
Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:52:25 AM 1614 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 06:59:26 AM 1552 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 10:01:18 AM 1550 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:56:47 PM 1635 Views
I didn't have anything either. *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:02:46 PM 891 Views
No, I'm sorry, I don't - 06/08/2013 02:33:58 PM 1601 Views
No appearance was described in my role message. *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:45:51 PM 876 Views
Nope. *NM* - 07/08/2013 07:23:00 PM 889 Views
No, nothing on appearance *NM* - 07/08/2013 09:02:11 PM 881 Views
I think we may need to contemplate some semi-random options - 06/08/2013 07:55:25 AM 1530 Views
List of remarks by the 'accused', plus some remarks on them - 06/08/2013 08:51:15 AM 1706 Views
explanation - 06/08/2013 09:05:55 AM 1584 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:47:35 AM 1595 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:59:45 AM 1628 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 01:28:49 PM 1558 Views
I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 06/08/2013 10:00:22 AM 1580 Views
Re: I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 07/08/2013 07:48:34 PM 1500 Views
Your questions - 06/08/2013 02:59:16 PM 1614 Views
I apparently answered your questions backwards - 06/08/2013 03:06:06 PM 1561 Views
I would look at it a bit differently, even if the outcome doesn't change that much - 06/08/2013 03:55:12 PM 1614 Views
Well, I'm impressed - 06/08/2013 04:11:31 PM 1522 Views
I thank you for the compliment. - 06/08/2013 09:51:54 PM 1570 Views
Re: I thank you for the compliment. - 07/08/2013 01:53:25 AM 1522 Views
Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 11:08:21 AM 1528 Views
Re: Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 01:01:55 PM 1547 Views
Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 09:46:26 PM 1607 Views
I think you just killed Beetnemesis *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:56:16 PM 868 Views
Better him than me . *NM* - 07/08/2013 11:16:29 PM 866 Views
Re: Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 11:32:12 PM 1502 Views
nice analysis - 07/08/2013 10:25:20 AM 1464 Views
Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 07:20:07 PM 1559 Views
Re: Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 08:22:47 PM 1478 Views
Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 03:37:36 PM 1478 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:11:04 PM 1518 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:43:12 PM 1558 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 05:34:04 PM 1546 Views
He really is... - 07/08/2013 04:55:59 PM 1516 Views
Re: He really is... - 07/08/2013 08:36:44 PM 1559 Views
Hm, that's not quite what I was thinking when I said that - 08/08/2013 08:49:11 PM 1434 Views
BAMF? - 07/08/2013 06:31:59 PM 1489 Views
It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:38:24 PM 1573 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:42:30 PM 1604 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:45:49 PM 1562 Views
When it comes to Marvel, it's Spidey and Deadpool all the way! X-Men. Pffft. - 07/08/2013 10:38:41 PM 1488 Views
Dr Doom was always my favorite hero in Marvel, but Deadpool is pretty cool *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:52:39 PM 832 Views
Dr Doom has cool costume, but other than that I don't know much about him. - 07/08/2013 11:37:09 PM 1481 Views
He's Marvel's Lex Luthor, only much cooler - 07/08/2013 11:48:00 PM 1469 Views
I'd actually say he's a bit more like Marvel's Superman than Marvel's Lex Luthor. - 07/08/2013 11:54:14 PM 1579 Views
I'm not a Marvel fan, but Doom is amazing. - 07/08/2013 11:52:09 PM 1484 Views
OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 04:49:33 PM 1558 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 05:44:09 PM 1581 Views
Well, you obviously know something, so out with it - 07/08/2013 06:33:04 PM 1519 Views
With that in mind... sounds like I hit too close to home, and you got sensitive - 08/08/2013 03:10:50 AM 1554 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis, Are you accusing me of being scum for pointing out your post had no substance? - 08/08/2013 03:39:25 AM 1604 Views
Re: - 08/08/2013 06:30:26 AM 1506 Views
Granted, as you yourself pointed out: attack is the best defense - 08/08/2013 08:17:31 AM 1447 Views
How often do we even have SKs? *NM* - 08/08/2013 09:39:58 AM 948 Views
This pushes it over the edge for me too. - 08/08/2013 01:13:21 PM 1497 Views
Hah. You got prickly pretty quickly. - 08/08/2013 07:39:24 PM 1510 Views
Prickly? I'm not touchy about it just suspiscious - 08/08/2013 08:01:39 PM 1485 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 06:38:45 PM 1518 Views
My feeling is that a "normal" game is pretty easy to balance - 08/08/2013 03:08:09 AM 1492 Views
re - 07/08/2013 08:36:15 PM 1507 Views
Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 04:31:26 PM 1524 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 05:44:54 PM 1508 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 07:51:09 PM 1559 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:02:45 PM 1518 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:05:52 PM 1646 Views
The thing we want to avoid is MASS roleclaim - 09/08/2013 08:30:32 AM 1436 Views
Okay, almost totally off topic but... - 07/08/2013 11:40:54 PM 1444 Views
The problem with that - 08/08/2013 08:09:56 AM 1525 Views
Re: The problem with that - 08/08/2013 05:02:56 PM 1508 Views
Reminds me of the Cairhien game a bit. - 08/08/2013 06:14:17 PM 1483 Views
That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 07:48:42 PM 1512 Views
I haaaated the Cairhien game - 08/08/2013 08:16:57 PM 1525 Views
Re: That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 09:42:25 PM 1494 Views
Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 05:51:23 PM 1473 Views
My take: - 08/08/2013 08:00:13 PM 1658 Views
Did you just admit to being a scummer? - 08/08/2013 08:04:21 PM 1534 Views
Hah, remember when I mentioned grasping at straws? - 08/08/2013 09:31:35 PM 1469 Views
We have always used the term that way, always, that and only that back to game 2 - 08/08/2013 09:44:20 PM 1535 Views
Holy crap, 4 years ago. - 09/08/2013 02:09:09 AM 1391 Views
That's when you asked and were told by the Moderator, it has come up since then many times - 09/08/2013 04:10:28 AM 1463 Views
I can't be the only person laughing at you right now - 09/08/2013 05:44:03 PM 1481 Views
I doubt anyone is laughing including yourself - 09/08/2013 06:08:41 PM 1472 Views
No, he's correct. - 08/08/2013 09:53:43 PM 1597 Views
Re: My take: - 08/08/2013 08:12:46 PM 1580 Views
To be a student of Isaac is a subtle thing - 08/08/2013 09:30:02 PM 1438 Views
sure - 08/08/2013 08:44:06 PM 1492 Views
Hmm, my thoughts, - 08/08/2013 08:56:27 PM 1575 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 10:30:22 PM 1531 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 11:18:56 PM 1572 Views
"Post count" usually acts as a tiebreaker - 09/08/2013 02:12:28 AM 1533 Views
I disagree - 09/08/2013 09:00:33 AM 1455 Views
Re: I disagree - 09/08/2013 11:25:29 AM 1459 Views
Several people have called for a roleclaim from beet - 09/08/2013 09:06:28 AM 1482 Views
I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 09:16:51 AM 1490 Views
Re: I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 03:18:38 PM 1550 Views
No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 03:49:21 PM 1451 Views
Re: No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 04:05:31 PM 1488 Views
Ah. Well that definitely explains it. *NM* - 09/08/2013 04:49:55 PM 853 Views
That's awesome. *NM* - 09/08/2013 09:21:59 PM 841 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 09/08/2013 11:48:13 AM 1431 Views
I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 05:47:23 PM 1510 Views
Re: I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 07:10:44 PM 1373 Views
OK, so the smiley was a typo - 09/08/2013 07:26:58 PM 1512 Views
I do, but - 09/08/2013 03:39:28 PM 1485 Views
RBIRL - 09/08/2013 05:50:21 AM 1505 Views
The case on Beetnemesis - 09/08/2013 05:05:32 PM 1612 Views
Ah good, time for a point-by-point rebuttal - 09/08/2013 06:04:11 PM 1510 Views
EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 06:14:25 PM 1574 Views
Actually... - 09/08/2013 06:38:26 PM 1538 Views
I can't see any difference with Isaac's "aggressiveness". *NM* - 09/08/2013 07:31:28 PM 930 Views
Re: EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 07:55:19 PM 1600 Views
Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:04:40 PM 1578 Views
Shrug, I have nothing against roleclaiming. Roleclaim: Tracker - 09/08/2013 07:33:40 PM 1510 Views
Correct me if wrong... - 09/08/2013 08:39:58 PM 1539 Views
Exactly! - 09/08/2013 11:06:25 PM 1543 Views
Wow, I'm gone for 24 hours, - 11/08/2013 12:02:38 AM 1505 Views
No, you just did everything you could to avoid it, like claiming almost no one had asked... - 09/08/2013 08:42:10 PM 1618 Views
I think you're right. - 09/08/2013 11:47:32 PM 1741 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:49:12 PM 1497 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 08:04:42 PM 1588 Views
too much mud - 09/08/2013 09:50:35 PM 1597 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis - 11/08/2013 10:32:51 AM 1680 Views
@ Mod, Vote Check - 11/08/2013 04:46:16 PM 1518 Views
That's a valid vote, I had missed it. Twilight pending. - 11/08/2013 05:36:13 PM 1500 Views
Actually, so did I. Did I hammer? - 11/08/2013 05:55:14 PM 1455 Views
Yes. *NM* - 11/08/2013 05:59:47 PM 745 Views
beetnemesis has been lynched. - 11/08/2013 05:52:43 PM 1562 Views

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