Didn't you concur earlier that my behavior as scum and town is more or less invariant?
Isaac Send a noteboard - 21/08/2012 09:20:38 PM
and like right here too?
It is a classic move, it's called 'My opponent's arguments are moonbeams and cobwebs, I refuse to roll over and die because he's got a 'hunch'" It's classic, but it's classic normal defense, town or scum.
I don't lie about RL stuff period, I consider that out-of-game and while it would probably surprise everyone here I'm something of a byword for blunt honesty in RL. I'm pretty RBIRL, and will be busier than normal till the elections are over with and being in a swing state that might be longer than Tuesday Nov 6. There's nothing scummy about that, but its not just being busy, I've been trying to be more hands off in recent games, I've said as much before.
That is kinda true, irrelevant now, but I never really cared about who people would accuse beyond an off hope someone would come up with a case, I wanted to see who people didn't accuse or who they accused deliberately weakly. That had, in my mind, about a 50/50 chance of nailing us a target, with a fall back of being able to at least limit our damage on a possible lynch to non-aggressive townies or scum. It didn't give the scum plausible deniability though, I certainly hope it appeared to, good to know it apparently did. There's the plan by the way, we'd have had the list of who they were willing to accuse, or of who they wanted it to seem they were, and during the wrangling it would have been easier to note who dropped cases most casually, who pushed harder, etc... e.g., evidence, data, something to go off of.
I gave you that chance repeatedly, I flagged my vote as an OMGUS, you declined to really defend or pursue it, I asked you to withdraw it, you elected not to, so I plan to see you lynched. It really has nothing to do with my alignment, you should know that. Aggressive defense is what a player should do, in all cases and roles, hence I will do it regardless of my own alignment.
Why? You keep saying that but notice how no one is nodding their head in agreement. It's not selling, frankly it sounds more like you are scum, realized you'd over-played your hand and are now screwed, and you're thinking "Why didn't I aim elsewhere?".
I mean honestly, your whole initial series of arguments has a flavor of being rehearsed in your head as a scummer. It was like a litany of reasons I might be viewed, as a player rather than by alignment, as a killable target. I'm 'cocky', you say, and 'overconfident', and I 'muddy the waters', arguments that to me sound like someone coming up with arguments starting from the POV of wanting me personally dead, rather than in-game evidence of being a darksider.
So your whole argument, minus hunches, minus out-game behavior, is that having been confronted with a plateau I waded in with a minor modification to the existing plan that gave it some teeth and also had a decent chance of netting us a fish.
Again, honestly, I'd be going after you right now regardless, just on OMGUS and what I see as anti-game behavior, but I really do get a sniff of something out of place and I think you're going to be lynched as soon as Rana returns or Yuna or ? decide to flip votes.
Here's another reason why... you're at L-1... no voluntary character or roleclaim... why is that? Almost every townie RC's at L-1 territory without prodding. Scum rarely do without being asked for it.
I'm not saying it was a BAD plan- you generally try to stay as pro-town as possible, I've noticed- but it was complex, and would do very well in tracking everyone's intentions.
More to the point, look at how Isaac has acted in the last couple of days. Reducing my entire argument to "Oh, beet wants us to lynch on a hunch" is a classic move.
It is a classic move, it's called 'My opponent's arguments are moonbeams and cobwebs, I refuse to roll over and die because he's got a 'hunch'" It's classic, but it's classic normal defense, town or scum.
Here is what happened: Isaac actually did have stuff going on in real life (he rarely lies unless he has to). This meant that he wasn't going to be taking charge on the first day, and would be willing to vote for whoever.
I don't lie about RL stuff period, I consider that out-of-game and while it would probably surprise everyone here I'm something of a byword for blunt honesty in RL. I'm pretty RBIRL, and will be busier than normal till the elections are over with and being in a swing state that might be longer than Tuesday Nov 6. There's nothing scummy about that, but its not just being busy, I've been trying to be more hands off in recent games, I've said as much before.
When the game hit a plateau, he tried to create a system that would give the scum very good plausible deniability (the whole "everyone gets 3 votes" thing).
That is kinda true, irrelevant now, but I never really cared about who people would accuse beyond an off hope someone would come up with a case, I wanted to see who people didn't accuse or who they accused deliberately weakly. That had, in my mind, about a 50/50 chance of nailing us a target, with a fall back of being able to at least limit our damage on a possible lynch to non-aggressive townies or scum. It didn't give the scum plausible deniability though, I certainly hope it appeared to, good to know it apparently did. There's the plan by the way, we'd have had the list of who they were willing to accuse, or of who they wanted it to seem they were, and during the wrangling it would have been easier to note who dropped cases most casually, who pushed harder, etc... e.g., evidence, data, something to go off of.
Things progressed as normal, with no real candidate coming into focus, until I accused him. He then seized on this, whereas if he was town he'd be more likely to have the attitude of "beet is well-intentioned but misguided."
I gave you that chance repeatedly, I flagged my vote as an OMGUS, you declined to really defend or pursue it, I asked you to withdraw it, you elected not to, so I plan to see you lynched. It really has nothing to do with my alignment, you should know that. Aggressive defense is what a player should do, in all cases and roles, hence I will do it regardless of my own alignment.
I realize the "I wouldn't do this if I was scum" argument can be suspect, but it's not in this case. Isaac uses the example of minor tactical mistakes, but this has been pretty much my entire talking point for my last dozen posts. If I was a scum, I would have backed off long ago.
Why? You keep saying that but notice how no one is nodding their head in agreement. It's not selling, frankly it sounds more like you are scum, realized you'd over-played your hand and are now screwed, and you're thinking "Why didn't I aim elsewhere?".
I mean honestly, your whole initial series of arguments has a flavor of being rehearsed in your head as a scummer. It was like a litany of reasons I might be viewed, as a player rather than by alignment, as a killable target. I'm 'cocky', you say, and 'overconfident', and I 'muddy the waters', arguments that to me sound like someone coming up with arguments starting from the POV of wanting me personally dead, rather than in-game evidence of being a darksider.
So your whole argument, minus hunches, minus out-game behavior, is that having been confronted with a plateau I waded in with a minor modification to the existing plan that gave it some teeth and also had a decent chance of netting us a fish.
Again, honestly, I'd be going after you right now regardless, just on OMGUS and what I see as anti-game behavior, but I really do get a sniff of something out of place and I think you're going to be lynched as soon as Rana returns or Yuna or ? decide to flip votes.
Here's another reason why... you're at L-1... no voluntary character or roleclaim... why is that? Almost every townie RC's at L-1 territory without prodding. Scum rarely do without being asked for it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Chaos in Champignac - Day 1
23/07/2012 10:15:29 PM
- 2659 Views
Spirou and Fantasio? *NM*
23/07/2012 11:02:28 PM
- 728 Views
How'd you figure? *NM*
25/07/2012 01:53:18 PM
- 793 Views
Champignac stuck in my mind probably, then I googled it
25/07/2012 02:33:41 PM
- 1208 Views
I wouldn't have recognized Champignac at all
25/07/2012 03:59:29 PM
- 1219 Views
You probably don't have friends who pronounce Champagne 'Cham pag Knee'
25/07/2012 04:22:09 PM
- 1350 Views

I haven't read these comics since I was in elementary school. *NM*
24/07/2012 02:15:09 AM
- 768 Views
Can't say I've ever even heard of them... *NM*
24/07/2012 05:45:12 PM
- 923 Views
They're French comics.
24/07/2012 10:01:34 PM
- 1149 Views
Belgian, thank you very much.
25/07/2012 07:09:49 PM
- 1284 Views

Speak of the devil
25/07/2012 08:36:15 PM
- 1127 Views

What, you didn't know about that function?
25/07/2012 09:33:35 PM
- 1296 Views
Re: What, you didn't know about that function?
25/07/2012 10:09:31 PM
- 1179 Views
All the more reason for me to request it, then.
25/07/2012 11:28:49 PM
- 1528 Views

Re: All the more reason for me to request it, then.
26/07/2012 12:03:18 AM
- 1126 Views

Hm, I don't remember that. But it's possible.
26/07/2012 08:22:53 PM
- 1306 Views
I shall endeavour to keep that in mind.
26/07/2012 03:15:32 AM
- 1211 Views
And you wonder why the rest of Canada finds you so arrogant?
26/07/2012 08:32:16 PM
- 1220 Views

I was not aware that the rest of Canada was capable of greater specificity
.
27/07/2012 07:19:16 AM
- 1214 Views

Neat. Well, I know next to nothing about Tintin
25/07/2012 04:14:26 AM
- 1431 Views
Some background to Spirou and Fantasio
25/07/2012 09:00:05 AM
- 1436 Views
Ah, OK, I assumed it was Tintin from other comments. Thanks. *NM*
25/07/2012 03:13:14 PM
- 855 Views
Hi, I know very little about the setting as well. Also, RBIRL until Monday. *NM*
25/07/2012 08:27:53 PM
- 891 Views
ok, so thoughts?
26/07/2012 10:21:03 AM
- 1279 Views
Stare at each other suspiciously, until we suddenly turn on someone with the first hint of weakness? *NM*
26/07/2012 03:36:15 PM
- 912 Views
Although that does sound tempting, I'm sure there are other options
26/07/2012 07:32:39 PM
- 1177 Views
Re: Although that does sound tempting, I'm sure there are other options
29/07/2012 03:47:04 PM
- 1164 Views
*poke, poke, poke*
28/07/2012 12:14:41 PM
- 1353 Views
Re: *poke, poke, poke*
29/07/2012 09:17:04 PM
- 1472 Views
Indeed. Beware the wrath of the moderator!
29/07/2012 10:58:55 PM
- 1165 Views
Ah yes, apologies about that
.
30/07/2012 02:41:26 AM
- 1170 Views

Any reason why? *NM*
30/07/2012 03:28:48 AM
- 887 Views
He hasn't posted in a week.
30/07/2012 07:13:39 AM
- 1131 Views
What? No discussion of the alternatives either Isaac or me proposed?
30/07/2012 08:48:20 AM
- 1220 Views
I think as small as we are I might prefer lynch over modkill, since a modkill will LyLo us
30/07/2012 05:01:06 PM
- 1208 Views
Gee, since everybody else is quiet
31/07/2012 10:31:21 AM
- 1161 Views
Re: Gee, since everybody else is quiet
01/08/2012 02:44:17 AM
- 1163 Views
Interesting indeed.
01/08/2012 02:01:43 PM
- 1308 Views
Meh. Combination of First Day Ennui and me not knowing the setting/characters
02/08/2012 07:41:22 PM
- 1224 Views
I don't see the point of this.
02/08/2012 11:43:56 AM
- 1147 Views
Re: Gee, since everybody else is quiet
04/08/2012 09:53:26 AM
- 1205 Views
Oh, and Yuna, you can go next *NM*
04/08/2012 09:55:04 AM
- 636 Views
Unvote and Vote: Yunalesca
08/08/2012 08:23:52 AM
- 1131 Views
RBIRL *NM*
02/08/2012 03:52:27 AM
- 682 Views
Still RBIRL
05/08/2012 11:57:19 PM
- 1148 Views
Your thoughts expressed, you feel the chill recede. If only others followed the example, you think. *NM*
06/08/2012 01:00:07 AM
- 664 Views
You all feel a chill and think you need to express your thoughts lest something terrible happens. *NM*
05/08/2012 11:03:25 PM
- 728 Views
OK- Beet gets in the game
07/08/2012 03:32:43 AM
- 1294 Views
I'm still partial to lynching Yunalesca. *NM*
07/08/2012 06:00:08 PM
- 679 Views
I cannot support that..
08/08/2012 02:47:32 PM
- 1181 Views
I have to admit to being pretty RBIRL
09/08/2012 07:03:37 PM
- 1123 Views
I have yet to decide my stance on modkills, I didn't expect to even have to think about using them. *NM*
09/08/2012 07:12:50 PM
- 666 Views
How's our chill doing? *NM*
09/08/2012 07:32:58 PM
- 857 Views
Some of you have already warmed up, but there are people who are definately feeling very cold. *NM*
09/08/2012 07:59:10 PM
- 604 Views
Okay, time to move on...
10/08/2012 05:13:06 AM
- 1268 Views
HAHAHAHAHA
10/08/2012 09:10:44 AM
- 1341 Views
I didn't think you were asking me- you just said "let's see what beet has to say"
10/08/2012 04:09:43 PM
- 1401 Views
Well, not really a case
13/08/2012 04:15:46 PM
- 1064 Views
my answer, finally (so sorry)
10/08/2012 07:57:36 PM
- 1326 Views

I agree with you.
10/08/2012 09:15:23 PM
- 1114 Views
FT's always lynch happy
10/08/2012 10:31:07 PM
- 1069 Views
...Maybe
11/08/2012 08:54:51 AM
- 1114 Views
Re: ...Maybe
12/08/2012 05:53:51 PM
- 1192 Views
Re: ...Maybe
12/08/2012 07:22:24 PM
- 1009 Views
Normal discussion also reveals who suspects who
13/08/2012 04:12:58 PM
- 1027 Views
Four? In Finland school doesn't start until seven. *NM*
13/08/2012 06:40:13 PM
- 708 Views
A heads up, if things don't speed up, there will be time limit. *NM*
13/08/2012 06:41:00 PM
- 679 Views
Batter up!
14/08/2012 03:10:26 AM
- 1147 Views
What was the actual question anyway?
15/08/2012 01:53:57 AM
- 1086 Views
If you had to lynch someone right now, who and why? *NM*
15/08/2012 03:19:06 AM
- 675 Views
Ah, that explains it
15/08/2012 04:01:50 AM
- 1153 Views
So.
15/08/2012 01:33:36 PM
- 1175 Views
Re: So.
15/08/2012 02:54:24 PM
- 1086 Views
Vote: Fanatic-Templar
15/08/2012 06:02:54 PM
- 1032 Views
I have no such agreement, I'll point out
15/08/2012 03:45:39 PM
- 1056 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis
15/08/2012 05:16:10 PM
- 1097 Views
Hah
15/08/2012 07:57:39 PM
- 1069 Views
A hunch sufficient to cast a vote for?
15/08/2012 08:57:01 PM
- 1195 Views
...bloody-mindedness?
16/08/2012 01:29:40 AM
- 1120 Views
Or a suicidal deathwish
16/08/2012 02:07:36 AM
- 1112 Views

Well, I got the Serial Killer on day 1 last game...
16/08/2012 04:28:42 AM
- 1032 Views
Ranagrande got the serial killer on Day 1 last game, that kill is all his
16/08/2012 05:06:13 AM
- 1146 Views
Re: Ranagrande got the serial killer on Day 1 last game, that kill is all his
16/08/2012 05:51:02 AM
- 1094 Views
Re: Ranagrande got the serial killer on Day 1 last game, that kill is all his
16/08/2012 11:53:49 AM
- 1237 Views
I did forget about rana's awesome code-breaking, that's on me
16/08/2012 04:14:35 PM
- 1053 Views
Yet the demonstration of a flaw in your hunch-record doens't result in an unvote? *NM*
17/08/2012 11:28:33 PM
- 898 Views
Nope.
20/08/2012 04:01:52 PM
- 1028 Views
Never said all hunches were wrong, even coins land on tails half the time
20/08/2012 04:31:51 PM
- 1057 Views
Summary of proposed targets
16/08/2012 02:43:41 AM
- 1147 Views
Thanks for the summary
16/08/2012 06:51:29 AM
- 1134 Views
RBIRL again. Sorry.
16/08/2012 06:06:52 PM
- 1047 Views
If posting doesn't become significantly more active by monday evening, I will institute a time limit
18/08/2012 08:45:35 PM
- 1113 Views
What are we tracking as the current vote count anyway?
19/08/2012 03:44:28 AM
- 1152 Views
Re: What are we tracking as the current vote count anyway?
19/08/2012 11:17:48 AM
- 1040 Views
I unvoted from Yunalesca a while back.
19/08/2012 05:09:30 PM
- 1167 Views
Sorry, I missed that. I didn't notice the unvote above the quote box until now.
19/08/2012 08:53:31 PM
- 1121 Views
I can't believe you missed that in the first post.
19/08/2012 11:45:42 AM
- 1104 Views
eh, i'll vote where my mouth is. Vote: Fanatic-Templar *NM*
19/08/2012 10:49:35 PM
- 682 Views
Well, I gues that's SOMETHING
20/08/2012 10:51:36 AM
- 1199 Views
Then I'll join the vote against Beetnemesis.
20/08/2012 05:00:16 PM
- 1145 Views
I think you should reconsider
21/08/2012 05:18:30 AM
- 1129 Views
Well, there isn't much of a case against anyone, this is Day 1 after all.
21/08/2012 06:47:18 AM
- 1118 Views
My case isn't that I have a "hunch," it's that Isaac is acting the way he would if he was scum!
21/08/2012 08:39:11 PM
- 1497 Views
Didn't you concur earlier that my behavior as scum and town is more or less invariant?
21/08/2012 09:20:38 PM
- 1165 Views
Well, just because no one agrees with me doesn't mean I don't believe it.
22/08/2012 05:24:52 PM
- 1082 Views
Re: Well, I gues that's SOMETHING
20/08/2012 05:21:21 PM
- 1180 Views
It's not an OMGUS vote anymore, also my motives on Day 1 are typically fairly pure
21/08/2012 05:26:02 AM
- 1283 Views
What was the argument against FT, again?
20/08/2012 04:07:26 PM
- 1052 Views
I wanted to lynch Yunalesca for inactivity, and this was unkind. *NM*
20/08/2012 05:01:18 PM
- 685 Views
That wasn't the case in its entire...
20/08/2012 05:22:26 PM
- 1110 Views
Well, you can't expect me to explain the case for my own lynch in flattering terms
. *NM*
20/08/2012 08:37:27 PM
- 700 Views

Obviously you are a demon *NM*
21/08/2012 05:14:12 AM
- 746 Views
That goes without saying. But we're supposed to lynch mafia, not demons. *NM*
21/08/2012 06:25:31 AM
- 690 Views
I have returned!
22/08/2012 01:35:32 AM
- 1006 Views
Roleclaim: Fantasio, (Spirou's best friend)
22/08/2012 05:32:16 PM
- 1161 Views
Re: Roleclaim: Fantasio, (Spirou's best friend)
22/08/2012 06:17:04 PM
- 1137 Views
Unvote
22/08/2012 11:16:02 PM
- 1176 Views
Of course it does sort of bounce up against that whole 'Amnesia' thing in the intro *NM*
23/08/2012 12:31:33 AM
- 656 Views
You don't know which character you are? *NM*
23/08/2012 02:38:39 AM
- 712 Views
I don't remember saying that, I'm just wondering if we should be casually dismissing it *NM*
23/08/2012 02:41:29 AM
- 707 Views
See, I've got a slight problem with that
23/08/2012 07:52:11 AM
- 1173 Views
Hm I have no such sentence...
23/08/2012 12:36:58 PM
- 1168 Views
I don't either but I can somewhat confirm that, also Beet lied, clearly and totally
23/08/2012 05:18:41 PM
- 1197 Views
What?! Fantasio is a friend of this inventor dude, he wouldn't BE a trespasser!
24/08/2012 12:27:30 AM
- 1133 Views
Good characters being good is far more reasonable than the opposite.
24/08/2012 04:23:16 AM
- 1168 Views
6/7 or 5/7 games with named characters it was a horrible gauge
24/08/2012 05:20:23 AM
- 1305 Views
I still say those previous games are irrelevant. Here's why:
24/08/2012 05:32:55 AM
- 1161 Views
What?
23/08/2012 03:43:24 PM
- 1163 Views
And that's pretty unbelievable too
23/08/2012 07:07:35 PM
- 1065 Views
I have NEVER claimed "secret intel," and I haven't claimed a role, either
24/08/2012 12:30:08 AM
- 1187 Views
How curious.
23/08/2012 04:35:48 PM
- 1147 Views
Vote: beetnemesis
23/08/2012 08:30:33 PM
- 1217 Views
o...k, i have food poisoning and come back to this?
24/08/2012 12:58:49 AM
- 1045 Views
Because I character claimed as Fantasio, which means I am evil Fantasio
24/08/2012 01:03:06 AM
- 1302 Views
Interesting way of putting it...
24/08/2012 03:02:39 AM
- 1141 Views

Re:
Interesting way of putting it...
24/08/2012 05:45:59 AM
- 1280 Views

Re:
Interesting way of putting it...
24/08/2012 06:03:02 AM
- 1087 Views

Re:
Interesting way of putting it...
24/08/2012 07:07:29 AM
- 1180 Views

Yep, I just got back from school (didn't have time to check before it), Twilight will be up today.
24/08/2012 01:00:28 PM
- 1056 Views
Probably post-hammer so...
24/08/2012 05:58:04 AM
- 1400 Views
Wait so what exactly do you want us to do?
24/08/2012 09:19:12 PM
- 1255 Views
Any reasonable compact account
24/08/2012 10:39:31 PM
- 1113 Views
...Well memory really isn't my thing... *NM*
25/08/2012 03:51:10 AM
- 728 Views
My memory is awful, besides you write well
25/08/2012 04:12:02 AM
- 1147 Views
Hmm trying to flatter me into doing the work eh?
*NM*
25/08/2012 07:05:08 PM
- 658 Views

If it works
*NM*
25/08/2012 07:48:12 PM
- 713 Views

...It might.
25/08/2012 09:27:59 PM
- 1243 Views
Augh! I got nothing...
26/08/2012 02:43:37 AM
- 1159 Views
What about your first game or your first Mod?
27/08/2012 01:32:47 AM
- 1118 Views
I totally remember that. Napoleon, right? You guys kept accidentally posting as one another. *NM*
25/08/2012 12:31:05 AM
- 661 Views
Haha yeah that's him...
25/08/2012 03:50:38 AM
- 1170 Views
I do... That was annoying. *NM*
25/08/2012 08:49:45 AM
- 639 Views