Since I have a few moments of rare morning time free and I can't feed my normal news junkie habit on the current depressing headlines, let's take a moment to discuss a good bid philosophy.
Ranagrande's analysis about stock vs bribe is a dead ringer for bidding principles. It's pretty much a good idea to bid on everything, this is no prob for me, typing in 20 or 30 3-4 digit numbers per player per week means about 1 minute per player. If something goes for less than it's LiqVal plus Round Income you got a deal, you can just liquidate it at the top of the next round and turn a small profit if it doesn't meet into your personal expansion plans. So there's really no reason to ever bid less then about 20% above min bid on any standard asset or luxury, or stock.
Now, as for planets and miscellanous stuff like heroes or electors, I really have no idea what electors are worth, Planets just have that min value so if someone uber-over bids I have some value to liquidate their planet for, you can't voluntarily liquidate a planet. The MBs for those are simply 1, 2, and 3000 MS, those are insanely low. Parmentier, on our outcry bid right now, should retail at well over 6000 MS. It's a rich world, meaning it comes with 2d6+10 x100 MS income, or 1700 MS avg, roughly 3 times a standard asset with LiqVal 2000. It also grants 4 votes, and electors have been going at about 300 a vote, so figure it's worth about 3 of the minor standard assets and one weak elector, about 8-9000 MS by current rates... now it also comes with only one location and 3 militia. Locations are a hindrance, they can be attacked and have to be defended, so 3 standard assets and an elector have 4 times the land to guard. You have a Base BS of 5 and 3 militia you already are at an 8, throw in 3 legions and your at a BS of 14, nigh invincible at this stage of the game.
Let's look at this strictly as being worth exactly 5 rounds of income and ignore the votes and say it goes average... 1700x5 or 8500 MS, and you'll guard it with 3 legions
Recruit and transfer 3 legions - cost 3300 MS
Seize def score of 14
8500-3300 = 5200 MS
Compare that to the same for 3 ore mines each with one militia and getting one legion, BS 5 (nobody obviously has a Seizure score of 5 since its an odd number but raids and all, decent average too)
1800x5= 9000
Seize defense score of 8
9000-3300= 5700
but no votes and those 3 mines can be picked off by a note particularly dedicated attacker, having an attack score of 9 isn't too hard for a player with a combat of 4
One of the reasons I think Diplomacy might be too weak and will probably introduce a diplomacy based revenue bonus to replace the current diplo elector/planet bonus, once I've figure dout how that can best function, like vote total x diplo score times some amount of cash, maybe 15 MS, so a dip 4 player with 20 votes would get 1200 MS a round, that would seem to rebalance it, I just need to determine X, where X is some value between 5 and 20 MS, the just Inc=DxVxX, I hate midgame rule tinkering but I hate unbalanced games more Players are welcome to suggest what X be, and X iteself need not be a constant value, it could be something like 20-Rd# or 10+Rd# or even Inc=(D+2)xVxX, the spreadsheet does the math, not me, I just don't want anything weird enough I couldn't handcrank it in an emergency or players couldn't predict their own without being math-skilled. Figure that change along with the Grudge rules coming in during round 3, I'd rather do all revision in one big heap and the more game play I can see the better I can see flaws.
Anyway, it might behoove players to discuss how much something is really worth so they have an idea where to bid on things, that's part of the purpose of Outcry bids, to give a faster more interactive source of info on perceived value. I say perceived because especially this early in the game system nobody really knows, figure by late rounds or future games there will be a general 'standard', likely down to a couple hundred MS, that anything is worth to an average player. Most players are basically striking blind right now, and I can't help too much since I have only whatever guess-timating edge a deeper familiarity with the rules grants.
Ranagrande's analysis about stock vs bribe is a dead ringer for bidding principles. It's pretty much a good idea to bid on everything, this is no prob for me, typing in 20 or 30 3-4 digit numbers per player per week means about 1 minute per player. If something goes for less than it's LiqVal plus Round Income you got a deal, you can just liquidate it at the top of the next round and turn a small profit if it doesn't meet into your personal expansion plans. So there's really no reason to ever bid less then about 20% above min bid on any standard asset or luxury, or stock.
Now, as for planets and miscellanous stuff like heroes or electors, I really have no idea what electors are worth, Planets just have that min value so if someone uber-over bids I have some value to liquidate their planet for, you can't voluntarily liquidate a planet. The MBs for those are simply 1, 2, and 3000 MS, those are insanely low. Parmentier, on our outcry bid right now, should retail at well over 6000 MS. It's a rich world, meaning it comes with 2d6+10 x100 MS income, or 1700 MS avg, roughly 3 times a standard asset with LiqVal 2000. It also grants 4 votes, and electors have been going at about 300 a vote, so figure it's worth about 3 of the minor standard assets and one weak elector, about 8-9000 MS by current rates... now it also comes with only one location and 3 militia. Locations are a hindrance, they can be attacked and have to be defended, so 3 standard assets and an elector have 4 times the land to guard. You have a Base BS of 5 and 3 militia you already are at an 8, throw in 3 legions and your at a BS of 14, nigh invincible at this stage of the game.
Let's look at this strictly as being worth exactly 5 rounds of income and ignore the votes and say it goes average... 1700x5 or 8500 MS, and you'll guard it with 3 legions
Recruit and transfer 3 legions - cost 3300 MS
Seize def score of 14
8500-3300 = 5200 MS
Compare that to the same for 3 ore mines each with one militia and getting one legion, BS 5 (nobody obviously has a Seizure score of 5 since its an odd number but raids and all, decent average too)
1800x5= 9000
Seize defense score of 8
9000-3300= 5700
but no votes and those 3 mines can be picked off by a note particularly dedicated attacker, having an attack score of 9 isn't too hard for a player with a combat of 4
One of the reasons I think Diplomacy might be too weak and will probably introduce a diplomacy based revenue bonus to replace the current diplo elector/planet bonus, once I've figure dout how that can best function, like vote total x diplo score times some amount of cash, maybe 15 MS, so a dip 4 player with 20 votes would get 1200 MS a round, that would seem to rebalance it, I just need to determine X, where X is some value between 5 and 20 MS, the just Inc=DxVxX, I hate midgame rule tinkering but I hate unbalanced games more Players are welcome to suggest what X be, and X iteself need not be a constant value, it could be something like 20-Rd# or 10+Rd# or even Inc=(D+2)xVxX, the spreadsheet does the math, not me, I just don't want anything weird enough I couldn't handcrank it in an emergency or players couldn't predict their own without being math-skilled. Figure that change along with the Grudge rules coming in during round 3, I'd rather do all revision in one big heap and the more game play I can see the better I can see flaws.
Anyway, it might behoove players to discuss how much something is really worth so they have an idea where to bid on things, that's part of the purpose of Outcry bids, to give a faster more interactive source of info on perceived value. I say perceived because especially this early in the game system nobody really knows, figure by late rounds or future games there will be a general 'standard', likely down to a couple hundred MS, that anything is worth to an average player. Most players are basically striking blind right now, and I can't help too much since I have only whatever guess-timating edge a deeper familiarity with the rules grants.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Dune: Round 2
11/01/2011 03:33:07 AM
- 1237 Views
CHOAM Auction Round 2 Phase 1
11/01/2011 03:35:53 AM
- 909 Views
E2B - Agricultural Fief - 1 Militia (Min Bid 2000 MS, Inc 50 MS)
11/01/2011 04:17:53 AM
- 879 Views
2000 MS - Edited because of mistype, read 200 MS originally. *NM*
11/01/2011 11:33:08 PM
- 618 Views
2050 MS *NM*
13/01/2011 01:58:12 AM
- 380 Views
2100 MS *NM*
13/01/2011 11:38:52 AM
- 470 Views
EDIT: 2100 MS - Invalid bid, my stupidity
13/01/2011 11:43:24 AM
- 762 Views
Incidentally you could just offer Beet a sum to buy it off of him
13/01/2011 12:20:31 PM
- 726 Views
Wait, what is 9 PM EST time in GMT +2? this one closed before my second bid, right? *NM*
13/01/2011 11:40:26 AM
- 402 Views
I checked it. thats 4 AM my time.
13/01/2011 11:42:50 AM
- 705 Views
Ouch
13/01/2011 12:17:33 PM
- 713 Views
Too bad we don't have a chat room- that'd be perfect for outcry *NM*
13/01/2011 04:47:34 PM
- 884 Views
Rich Planet - Parmentier, Min Bid 3000 MS, 50 MS increment
11/01/2011 04:20:34 AM
- 937 Views
3000 MS *NM*
11/01/2011 02:26:00 PM
- 444 Views
3100 MS *NM*
11/01/2011 03:13:03 PM
- 425 Views
3300 MS *NM*
11/01/2011 04:00:49 PM
- 489 Views
3350 MS *NM*
11/01/2011 10:58:22 PM
- 432 Views
3400 MS *NM*
11/01/2011 11:30:49 PM
- 499 Views
3450 MS *NM*
12/01/2011 12:50:32 AM
- 499 Views
Pah, minimum bids. 3600 MS *NM*
12/01/2011 02:28:44 AM
- 514 Views
They're pretty abitrary for non-LiqVal items *NM*
12/01/2011 02:56:49 AM
- 449 Views
I think he was just Pahing the fact that we're bidding the minimum increments *NM*
12/01/2011 02:34:42 PM
- 512 Views
Quite probably - this seems a good point to mentioning Horizontal scroll in bidding wars
12/01/2011 02:59:56 PM
- 709 Views
3650 MS *NM*
12/01/2011 07:47:15 AM
- 504 Views
3700 MS *NM*
12/01/2011 02:33:41 PM
- 441 Views
3750 MS *NM*
12/01/2011 04:23:05 PM
- 464 Views
3850 MS *NM*
12/01/2011 07:04:46 PM
- 417 Views
3900 MS *NM*
13/01/2011 01:57:57 AM
- 377 Views
Cut that out! 4400 MS! *NM*
13/01/2011 06:17:52 AM
- 368 Views
I'm tempted to offer 4450... But not now.
13/01/2011 11:35:00 AM
- 793 Views
Well, as for the Crisis- is everyone pretty firm in what they're voting for? Dunno if I am
12/01/2011 05:45:11 AM
- 717 Views
Well I wouldn't mind listening to some persuasive arguments, if anybody has some to offer.
12/01/2011 05:51:48 AM
- 772 Views
Court Gossip - Chancellor’s Challenge
12/01/2011 09:20:43 AM
- 1126 Views
Vote: Accept Chancellor's Challenge. (Erm...?)
12/01/2011 05:46:38 PM
- 756 Views
I was attacked by the Bandits of Surewood Forest
12/01/2011 07:08:16 PM
- 772 Views
I think "pirates" just means "NPC raiders"
12/01/2011 07:35:04 PM
- 665 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea *NM*
12/01/2011 09:51:25 PM
- 432 Views
(Others should do this, too)
13/01/2011 07:31:09 AM
- 694 Views
I thought that as Adjutant General you could simply report our conclusions. *NM*
14/01/2011 06:02:38 AM
- 437 Views
4 players have to "confirm" the names HINT HINT
14/01/2011 08:21:23 AM
- 639 Views
Yeah, I did so below. I was explaining why I didn't do so earlier. *NM*
14/01/2011 07:15:00 PM
- 468 Views
"Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea" Yes, 4 of you have to do this for each pirate group *NM*
14/01/2011 04:05:29 AM
- 400 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea *NM*
14/01/2011 05:33:45 AM
- 435 Views
Pirate Name: Bandits of Surewood Forest *NM*
14/01/2011 05:34:11 AM
- 400 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea
14/01/2011 06:47:25 PM
- 713 Views
I think that makes 4 of us for every name.
15/01/2011 12:02:20 AM
- 759 Views
Oh, he already has. Nevermind then.
15/01/2011 12:03:30 AM
- 916 Views
Even when drunk, the magic of smartphones keeps message board games alive! *NM*
15/01/2011 06:50:33 AM
- 460 Views
About bidding
13/01/2011 01:03:40 PM
- 911 Views
Battle Plans
14/01/2011 02:44:01 PM
- 728 Views
As for the money... (and a couple other things)
14/01/2011 06:05:04 PM
- 754 Views
Weird. I thought I replied to this. Hm. Anyway, I could attack one of the pirate Strongholds. *NM*
14/01/2011 08:17:00 PM
- 435 Views
So yeah, we need 3 volunteers with decent Diplomacy/Intrigue stats
14/01/2011 09:43:58 PM
- 716 Views
As stated above, I will be one of them
15/01/2011 12:54:44 AM
- 769 Views
So is anyone else investigating pirates?
16/01/2011 02:28:06 AM
- 793 Views
I guess I could do one. *NM*
16/01/2011 02:43:05 AM
- 435 Views
Which group do you want?
16/01/2011 04:41:04 AM
- 711 Views
I'll deal with the Bandits of Surewood Forest, after all, they did make the mistake of attacking me.
16/01/2011 05:30:36 AM
- 766 Views
Some More Notes
15/01/2011 03:47:59 AM
- 715 Views
I'd be all for condensing it into one auction phase
15/01/2011 04:07:56 AM
- 782 Views
It'd be fairer for players like Bergioyn who aren't present near the deadline though.
15/01/2011 04:18:19 AM
- 762 Views