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This one's tricky Isaac Send a noteboard - 13/12/2010 12:23:36 AM
What prompted the VotF reminder in this game?


What prompts the question?

By my count it has been eight games since your last VotF-qualifying event. Additionally, looking at recent trends, the role of Night 1 Lightning Rod has been taken over by another player.

So I'm curious as to why you felt the need to bring it up now.


The simple and truthful answer is that 1) You're wrong, it hasn't been 8 games, 2) VotF isn't really about Night 1 lightning rod-ness of Yours Truly, 3) even recently I've been targeted by actions on night 1 a statstically absurd percentage of the time - bergioyn and FT last game for instance. As for why now, thats simple, our games take a long time, VotF appeared formally at the end of game 16, this is the beginning of #20. It would be seriously f'd up of me to slaughter a newer player who got the cop role and understandably thought on night 1 "Maybe I should cop the player who pushed a lynch that resulted in a dead townie", because they have no background to realize that is basically a meaningless case, so it is necessary to occasionally point it out, 2) No deterrent works well if people don't know about it, it pays to hang a big sign on the proverbial door saying 'warning, armed response' or 'Danger: Radioactive Material'. 3) FT basically copped me under what I consider a very questionable circumstance on night 1 of last game, we cleared that up, but I'm disinclined to risk anyone else thinking that would be okay under VotF. It's not, the simple fact is I don't trust most players to approach me on anything remotely similar the standards they apply to others, a scrap of info that might be ignored on others, or dismissed as minor, for me becomes major, and someone could easily rationalize a NK/cop on me from something like 'Didn't vote first or second for someone, and they died a DF', this would be seen as probable bussing by me, even if it wasn't, a fair point since I pretty much always vote first or second for someone in prior games, and if someone doesn't notice that caveat, I either have to let the proverbial floodgate open or devote lots of energy taking them out, all over something that realistically probably indicated I was actually town, using the old "I won't vote for Gher because Gher is always on the other team and I think it's biasing my thinking" standard that applied from about game 4 to 14 and doubtless many remember.

Lastly, I was about to reveal info that would qualify as such a reason to those who didn't get the main point of the policy, so I went out of my way to explain why it was not, and why I did not view it as 'legit', before anyone might think it was. I really do not want to go after someone because they really did not know, its unfair to them, but I'm as much as lining a target up on my head if I don't. There's also the option for the normally improbable that we'd dismiss as unlikely or WIFOM to really happen on night action magnets. Consider last game, had I been townie, the odds of me being copped and framed on the first night should be statistically insignificant, but in reality they are very, very high, without something like VotF in play, who after all was your primary candidate for framing on night 1 last game? Lacking VotF, nothing is certain but we must always assume as a given that a framer role for instance will target an action magnet on night 1, copping becomes meaningless, and roles like framer or watcher cease being merely power roles but become exceptionally powerful. As mentioned, it's not specifically about me, its about the debalancing effect caused by any night action magnet. Right now a smart doc, watcher, or framer knows they should be targeting other than randomly, we obviously won't name names here but if we asked players to make a list of '5 best targets' for those, there will be damned little difference between those lists, even if I'm not on it for fear of retaliation that just dumps it the next one's on the list. It's one thing when come night 2 of last game everyone and their brother targeted Yuna, that was strictly related to current game events, but if come night 1 half the guns point at say, DK (obviously not a name picked at random), the game becomes unbalanced, particularly if the game is role heavy, because the odds of an unlikely pair of role powers interacting has gone from 'too small to worry about' to 'near certainty'. So, besides being grossly unfair if rather complimentary to her, it also tips game balance. Being a night action magnet is, of course, not bad for the ego, but if I thought for one moment I could disappear and re-emerge unnoticed as a new player, an essential impossibility for me as was proven back in game 5, I'd do it in a heartbeat, my ego needs no pumping and it's very, very hard to scheme with all eyes on you, so to speak, hence, VotF

Barring VotF the only solutions are for night magnets to either get pounded until they give up and stop playing or they've been targeted so much that people stop thinking of them as a threat because they die or get neutralized early most games, or, for more players to begin attracting attention by posting a lot and playing 'better'. Of course, the only way for someone to deal with that would be to encourage active posting and to sit around giving detailed explanations of the ups and downs of tactics, and of course, I've never done that. Certainly I've never deliberately posted in such a fashion as to provoke active conversation about strategy even when it might drawn unwanted attention :P

There's more to this of course but it doesn't bare discussion, ask me by NB if you want a further explanation, frankly, discussing it at all is something I'm not fond of which is why I don't do it much, to me VotF is there to protect me from being driven out of play by dogpiling and preventing all the secondary effects that happen when night actions become predictable, which is why I don't like seeing anyone become a night action magnet, but I assume the whole thing comes off very threatening to other players, which I dislike, because their POV is essentially me pointing a gun at them, not necessarily realizing it's because they're in my front door unannounced and people keep breaking down the door every other day while everyone else's door gets busted maybe once a month. Add to that in the background I've tended to try not to target new players or night action magnets as much, and since I've had strong say over the NK's on the whole, many haven't gotten squeezed as badly as they probably would have otherwise, yet undeniably some players have been targeted more than they should have, and the most obvious correlating factor is 'activity', to the point that I worry there now is a genuine incentive, as to the prefered opposite, to say little.

Hopefully that explains my reasoning sufficiently to you and others. Lengthier than I really like, but I perceive the whole thing to be a bit of a touchy issue so lengthy explanations are sort of necessary.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Yeah, I was kidding. I agree with what you said - 10/12/2010 02:32:31 PM 973 Views
It just means that he's inappropriate. - 10/12/2010 02:55:25 PM 1078 Views
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Re: Now that's dedication to nostalgia - 10/12/2010 05:19:42 PM 1061 Views
I had to learn it from the manga . - 10/12/2010 06:28:48 PM 1026 Views
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Re: What's with all these yeses from ranagrande? - 09/12/2010 08:55:02 PM 1009 Views
I like answering either/or questions with "yes" - 09/12/2010 10:25:15 PM 1079 Views
So... we have no anime experts here? I think we should all name 4 sources - 10/12/2010 03:30:45 AM 1002 Views
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Sure, why not - 10/12/2010 05:07:49 AM 950 Views
OK, here are my 4 - 10/12/2010 05:42:27 AM 1156 Views
I was going to agree to this... - 10/12/2010 06:59:09 AM 1159 Views
I'm going to have to agree. I think I may have said too much, or - 10/12/2010 07:41:02 AM 949 Views
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Alright then - 10/12/2010 02:24:08 PM 1093 Views
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Both? I atleast tend to get trapped in tvtropes for hours when someone links a page. *NM* - 11/12/2010 10:21:25 PM 644 Views
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A question for Isaac - 12/12/2010 08:20:35 PM 1104 Views
Re: A question for Isaac - 12/12/2010 09:28:55 PM 1137 Views
Re: A question for Isaac - 12/12/2010 10:17:43 PM 1026 Views
This one's tricky - 13/12/2010 12:23:36 AM 1183 Views
Thanks. That does clear things up a bit. *NM* - 13/12/2010 09:07:41 AM 545 Views
RBIRL - 13/12/2010 01:25:18 AM 1089 Views
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Re: So it seems like some people don't want to do the 4 sources thing - 13/12/2010 03:35:15 PM 1096 Views
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I agree. - 16/12/2010 12:56:44 AM 1046 Views
Hm. Well, I don't think we should give out any more role info - 15/12/2010 09:19:07 PM 1048 Views
Re: Hm. Well, I don't think we should give out any more role info - 15/12/2010 10:03:43 PM 1129 Views
Well we COULD roleclaim. - 16/12/2010 12:58:28 AM 1093 Views
Yeah, as of yet we don't know that much about anyone - 16/12/2010 01:55:59 PM 1099 Views
The problem with a no lynch - 16/12/2010 03:16:31 PM 1056 Views
Oh right, yeah - 16/12/2010 06:05:23 PM 1039 Views
Re: The problem with a no lynch - 16/12/2010 08:33:22 PM 1048 Views
The GREAT AND POWERFUL INFODUMP (chart) - 16/12/2010 03:52:55 PM 1063 Views
My male/female thing really should change to mostly female. *NM* - 16/12/2010 06:09:18 PM 597 Views
Fixed. If anyone else spots errors, let me know *NM* - 16/12/2010 08:33:08 PM 658 Views
Mine's wrong - 16/12/2010 08:39:51 PM 1167 Views
Thank you for doing the chart by the way *NM* - 16/12/2010 08:44:30 PM 627 Views
Sure. Now we just have to see if it's useful at all... - 16/12/2010 09:07:27 PM 1092 Views
Not me! I'm not quiet! See? I'm talking! *NM* - 16/12/2010 09:39:49 PM 508 Views
Not me either! - 16/12/2010 11:25:31 PM 1057 Views
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM! - 17/12/2010 05:39:36 PM 1068 Views
They can take our land! - 18/12/2010 03:06:47 AM 1193 Views
I actually said a massclaim was a BAD idea. Hm. Is Haemophilus influenzae Light Yagami? - 18/12/2010 02:28:39 PM 1072 Views
I don't want to lynch our vig though ... - 18/12/2010 04:43:52 PM 1012 Views
Well we have to kill someone - 18/12/2010 07:14:28 PM 1095 Views
Am I missing something? - 19/12/2010 05:18:17 AM 1160 Views
He really isn't. - 19/12/2010 08:14:32 AM 1140 Views
Yeah, I was just confused, because we suddenly had a big convo about it - 19/12/2010 03:39:12 PM 1071 Views
Okay, I found the discussion. - 19/12/2010 05:17:29 PM 1116 Views
Well if he WAS Light, I would vote to lynch - 19/12/2010 09:31:47 PM 1067 Views
I think there's a consensus of Light=KiraKiller=bad - 19/12/2010 09:51:21 PM 913 Views
That is the impression that I got *NM* - 19/12/2010 09:59:20 PM 644 Views
I really don't see Light Yagami as being obviously evil - 19/12/2010 11:24:42 PM 1013 Views
Well, this has been discussed - 19/12/2010 11:50:53 PM 1016 Views
He's the textbook definition of a serial killer. - 20/12/2010 02:19:45 AM 978 Views
Eh... I guess not. - 20/12/2010 01:36:57 AM 1090 Views
Well that might be me... - 16/12/2010 09:45:03 PM 1066 Views
Re: Well that might be me... - 16/12/2010 10:12:00 PM 1000 Views
Could be me... - 16/12/2010 10:10:01 PM 1118 Views
Their bell tower? *NM* - 16/12/2010 11:21:00 PM 628 Views
Oh sure - 16/12/2010 11:53:09 PM 1091 Views
... so that was more depressing that I was anticipating. - 18/12/2010 03:09:52 AM 1058 Views
Re: Isaac - 20/12/2010 12:22:16 AM 1103 Views
Apparently it was a good guess - 20/12/2010 04:55:32 AM 1018 Views
Update - 20/12/2010 04:50:48 AM 1068 Views
Well, the claim is certainly believable - 20/12/2010 05:01:38 AM 1041 Views
Hahaha awesome. - 20/12/2010 05:31:05 AM 1073 Views
Re: Hahaha awesome. - 20/12/2010 05:59:42 AM 1107 Views
Fair enough. OK, gang, what should we do? - 20/12/2010 02:26:45 PM 1038 Views
Here's wat I'll do: - 20/12/2010 05:01:00 PM 1152 Views
Oy. - 20/12/2010 05:20:38 PM 1075 Views
F-T made it pretty clear that Light was eeeeevil. - 20/12/2010 09:48:57 PM 978 Views
I think the real issue is, should we try to control him, or should we just lynch him? - 20/12/2010 11:55:09 PM 973 Views
Well, the obvious choice is not to kill anyone Tonight - 21/12/2010 03:01:57 AM 1040 Views
Yeah, I won't be killing anyone Tonight. - 21/12/2010 04:29:53 AM 1025 Views
Something about this situation bugs the heck out of me - 21/12/2010 04:49:11 AM 1069 Views
Improbable how? *NM* - 21/12/2010 05:01:00 AM 634 Views
The pieces don't add up - 21/12/2010 06:00:07 AM 1099 Views
That's definitely possible. Yeah, I'm keeping my vote up. - 21/12/2010 02:25:28 PM 1243 Views
Well, Death Note is pretty popular. - 21/12/2010 04:59:27 PM 1126 Views
Is it? - 21/12/2010 06:06:16 PM 1056 Views
Actually, yeah. It's th only legit anime I hear about besides DBZ and Gundam and that stuff. - 21/12/2010 07:03:09 PM 1018 Views
I had assumed we were a biased group, it fits - 22/12/2010 03:01:43 AM 970 Views
Re: I had assumed we were a biased group, it fits - 22/12/2010 04:54:37 AM 1061 Views
No, you're definitely overthinking it - 21/12/2010 08:50:45 PM 1177 Views
That's not what I meant - 22/12/2010 01:44:45 AM 1112 Views
Actually, my initial post description does fit Light "like a glove" - 22/12/2010 05:40:00 AM 1087 Views
I just glanced at the wiki- it's pretty dense, without explaining much - 22/12/2010 05:43:30 AM 1027 Views
Re: I just glanced at the wiki- it's pretty dense, without explaining much - 22/12/2010 05:56:17 AM 958 Views
Re: I just glanced at the wiki- it's pretty dense, without explaining much - 22/12/2010 03:02:26 PM 1143 Views
Honestly, I could very easily believe an Operative=Town claim. - 22/12/2010 04:00:07 PM 1023 Views
I should have said "Operative if he intended to rule, instead of kill himself" - 22/12/2010 04:46:58 PM 1170 Views
Even then... - 22/12/2010 05:31:14 PM 1036 Views
RBIRL - 21/12/2010 01:27:03 AM 1105 Views
Just popping in. - 21/12/2010 07:47:18 AM 1046 Views
Vote for HI! - 21/12/2010 02:25:56 PM 958 Views
Re: Vote for HI! - 21/12/2010 09:21:11 PM 1069 Views
I think HI made a minor error when F-T guessed he was Light, and the "limited use vig" is an attempt - 22/12/2010 01:22:51 AM 1049 Views
What error is that? - 22/12/2010 05:54:33 AM 1063 Views
Re: What error is that? - 22/12/2010 02:47:38 PM 1027 Views
That does make sense. I'll have to think about this. *NM* - 22/12/2010 08:55:01 AM 521 Views
I'm not sure if Light=evil - 21/12/2010 09:31:47 PM 1072 Views
Haemophilus influenzae: What are your restrictions? - 22/12/2010 04:06:20 PM 1124 Views
BIRL - 22/12/2010 05:35:23 PM 1133 Views
RBIRL - 22/12/2010 09:08:26 PM 988 Views
I'm back! - 22/12/2010 11:26:56 PM 1020 Views
This is pretty much how I feel. - 23/12/2010 04:24:34 PM 1020 Views
RBIRL - 23/12/2010 07:58:34 AM 1197 Views
Christmas is the perfect time of the year... for MURDER *NM* - 23/12/2010 02:29:29 PM 647 Views
RBIRL for the rest of the year - 23/12/2010 10:02:15 PM 1071 Views
Probably no surprise but semi-RBIRL - 24/12/2010 02:28:13 PM 1093 Views
Heck, I might as well say it too. RBIRL. - 24/12/2010 03:18:15 PM 1165 Views
Blooooood - 28/12/2010 06:58:25 PM 1051 Views
Blood for the Blood God! - 28/12/2010 08:09:31 PM 1070 Views
All right: Vote: Haemophilus influenzae - 28/12/2010 10:00:05 PM 979 Views
I suppose this really is the only realistic option - 28/12/2010 10:15:43 PM 1045 Views
Vote: Haemophilus influenzae - 29/12/2010 12:08:17 AM 1160 Views
Re: Vote: Haemophilus influenzae - 29/12/2010 12:49:51 AM 1016 Views
Vote: Haemophilus influenzae - 29/12/2010 09:06:36 AM 1010 Views
If I had a hammer... - 29/12/2010 07:43:54 PM 1069 Views
twilight - 29/12/2010 10:29:14 PM 1300 Views
HAH - 30/12/2010 03:46:01 AM 1211 Views
Sorry for lack of posting - 02/01/2011 06:30:33 AM 2140 Views
Lame. Come back soon! *NM* - 02/01/2011 05:50:29 PM 641 Views
Good luck with your stuff! - 03/01/2011 05:31:49 AM 1080 Views
Like beet and DK said, good luck and come back soon! *NM* - 03/01/2011 09:06:06 PM 548 Views

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