I merely wanted an appraisal of your confidence in their trustworthiness in case you turned out to be innocent after all. I assume they are guiltless unless you turn out innocent, it was merely a contingency plan. Unfortunately, it didn't help much, but then I don't think it'll matter, since I am confident in your guilt.
I can't help but point out that you just posted all those options in detail here
Let's look at some of your other falsheoods, both the outright and those by ommision.
You've claimed that there is a tangible difference to you between my suggesting a no lynch and voting for it, but you did it here
In that comment, in response to my saying that "...Insofar as the reason to vote no lynch instead of waiting for the deadline is to avoid wasting time and shedding bored players... a situation we clearly have here, you even say that I've favored it as a mod. I do, and you know and have shown that you know, that I do. That you dislike no lynches, does not change that I consider them the more pro-game solution than double-modkill or game death by inactivity. This is no secret, we've discussed many a time that even as a DF I will take risky action designed to keep people posting even if it draws eyes on me. I place game continuity above victory in individual games, and you know this, yet you lie outright when you say that in your eyes theirs a votable difference between suggesting and casting a vote to no lynch and you lie by omission when you imply I must have purely victory motives in mind for my actions. You also spin, because you've not explained how this scummy action I took would benefit me, you line up a series of rationales, all of which have improbable logic behind them, and say if all these are true then Isaac is scum, and when I countered them, you did not counter, you accused me of obfuscation.
Let's take another example:
He asks "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to worry about third party kills and to seek out third parties?" because the real question would be "Is it out of the ordinary for me, as town or scum, to deliberately not even try to find mafia?" And the answer is of course yes. Look at previous games, have you even seen Isaac say something to the effect of "I don't think we should will find mafia today, nor do I think we should even try"? And yet that's what he did with that serial killer chase.
You accuse me of the very thing you are doing. Your counter question "Is it out of the ordinary for me, as town or scum, to deliberately not even try to find mafia?" twists my original question, because in your form, seeking a third party is equal to ignoring a threat, as though pursuing a lynch on DF 1 proves I'm a scummer because I didn't pursue DF 2 while hunting DF 1. You then say in previous games I didn't said something, putting it in quotes, but you say 'something like' and provide no reference to it. But you leave out that I never said any such thing yesterday, I said the scum were shapeshifters and would match their character claims, and thus wouldn't be locatable by our character claims table, but a SK might be, this truthful and logical comment you are aware is both you then lift out of context as proof of perfidy... a lie by ommision, you never challenge the actual comment, you never even reference it, maybe because in context it is not an indicator of guilt at all?
The actual quote:
All right, so anyway, I do unsurprisingly have plots and schemes afoot but at the moment most have not yet reached 'the proper time', so I will focus on one particular avenue, which in this case was sort of a 'SK gambit'
Going into this it seemed a safe bet that our bad guys are shapechangers and already have a legitimate ID and knew they did, likely as major characters. One of them might have lied about all 4, but probably not, they likely listed their 'real' fake identity. I'm betting everyone did.
Let us assume for the moment that any role powers someone has are appropriate to their character. Now let us assume we have a vig or SK, knowing Beet, he wouldn't assign this role to a character that followed the Comics Code, which amongst other things doesn't let good guys kill people pretty much ever. I haven't done a definitive scouring of characters yet, but the perosn who most stuck out was WF, he had:
skip analysis
Anyway, that's my first thoughts, focusing in on a probable SK/vig isn't exactly ideal but realistically killing off a SK (and arguably a vig) on day 1 is preferable to catching a single scummer, since it eliminates a whole NK. And yes, I know I'm not very objective about vigs but I'll remind everyone that they have a a horrible track record with us, BA was the first vig to whack a non-townie and that was after he tried to whack the town doc, by and large our SK's and scummers have a better track record of killing off rival scummers than the vigs have. But again, there are a handful of major characters who I think would be obvious vig material, The Punisher being the blatant example, but plent yof more obvious vig candidates beside Deadpool, who is practically the poster-child for insanely homicidal third party guy.
Anyway, that's my first thoughts on it.
And yeah, to save the eventual comment, this is exactly what I'd be saying if I was the Evil Skrull Leader, I'm not, a general desire to do away with SK's and cultists is a trait I possess both when town and DF.
Going into this it seemed a safe bet that our bad guys are shapechangers and already have a legitimate ID and knew they did, likely as major characters. One of them might have lied about all 4, but probably not, they likely listed their 'real' fake identity. I'm betting everyone did.
Let us assume for the moment that any role powers someone has are appropriate to their character. Now let us assume we have a vig or SK, knowing Beet, he wouldn't assign this role to a character that followed the Comics Code, which amongst other things doesn't let good guys kill people pretty much ever. I haven't done a definitive scouring of characters yet, but the perosn who most stuck out was WF, he had:
skip analysis
Anyway, that's my first thoughts, focusing in on a probable SK/vig isn't exactly ideal but realistically killing off a SK (and arguably a vig) on day 1 is preferable to catching a single scummer, since it eliminates a whole NK. And yes, I know I'm not very objective about vigs but I'll remind everyone that they have a a horrible track record with us, BA was the first vig to whack a non-townie and that was after he tried to whack the town doc, by and large our SK's and scummers have a better track record of killing off rival scummers than the vigs have. But again, there are a handful of major characters who I think would be obvious vig material, The Punisher being the blatant example, but plent yof more obvious vig candidates beside Deadpool, who is practically the poster-child for insanely homicidal third party guy.
Anyway, that's my first thoughts on it.
And yeah, to save the eventual comment, this is exactly what I'd be saying if I was the Evil Skrull Leader, I'm not, a general desire to do away with SK's and cultists is a trait I possess both when town and DF.
Now, you would attempt on day 1, and later today as well, to say that it was a sign of my guilt that I'd suggest such a path, yet as I pointed out, and you never rebutted, that claim was based off an underlying assumption I would have to do it without knowing it was a scummer tell, the original accusation puts the claim to bed, as the bolded text indicates. So I accidentally dropped proof I was scummer in the very same message I outright say it could be seen that way. That makes no sense, and yet by accusing me from a set off comments in which it was impossible to miss my saying that, you once again lift something clearly out of context in a fashion that can not be an accident. "Knowingly Presenting False Evidence" is, some might say, not particularly pro-town
Let's go to your next one, in your original accusations on me that caused this avalanche:
He says "Led a lynch on an innocent townie? BlackAdder, Check." and tries to equate this with his serial killer hunt, leaving out that they are completely different - in BlackAdder's case, he was trying to catch a ninja and failed. In White Flame's case, he was not trying to find a Skrull and succeeded in not finding one. He tries to compare killing a townie by mistake to killing a townie by intent.
Again, utter word game, and real ironic when your whole point is to accuse me of doing that. In BlackAdders case, I was trying to find a scummer and failed. In WF's case, I was trying to find a scummer and failed, SK's a scummers. You ignore again the inconvenient truth that I'd already told everyone that going for a SK was not ideal but we had a decent lead and a SK is more dangeorus than a single scummer. Again, you use a flawed argument that translates as "This cop is clearly dirty and on the take because he ran past someone who was trying to steal a car while pursuing a murderer" it sounds reasonable to people only because there's a tag at the end 'Someone shot the fleeing murderer, ending the day, and he turned out to be innocent, it was not possible to go back for the car thief' and leaves out something really vital, I didn't run past someone stealing a car, I ran past when someone yelled 'He's stealing my car' and there was no sign of who 'he' was.
Next:
He asks irrelevant questions like "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to accuse someone on day 1?" or "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to drop a lynch I feel is not viable?" in an attempt to get people to get in an agreeable position. After all, it is perfectly accurate to say that these are not abnormal behaviours, nor are they anti-town, and he hopes that people will use them to get a good impression of him and forget what the real point was.
No supporting evidence of that claim, you just say 'irrelevant' and bypass it, but its pretty relevant and you know it. You use both the day 1 vote and the day 1 non-vote for ? as evidence against me originally, yet when I point outthat is normal, instead of ceding the point as a flaw in your original accusation, you ignore that it was part of your accusation and accuse me of obfuscation by pointing it out.
Next:
Isaac writes in an attempt to obfuscate the issue. The facts are plain and simple: in the span of two days, Isaac has deliberately voted to protect the mafia from lynching.
In a post that is loaded with spin and obfuscation, you accuse me of doing it the whole while, then say I deliberately voted to protect the mafia. Yet your sole evidence of such a vote is that I went after a probable SK, needless to say, that's hardly anti-town, but certainly no more anti-town then everyone who voted for the lynch without pursuing other leads. That's a far more obvious scummer tell, I tell people I don't think the lynch is viable anymore on day 1 and we need to pursue other leads, I suggest some, and WF gets whacked in a few hours. You avoid all mention of that aspect of things repeatedly, that an avalanche vote off my suggestion we pursue other routes is not only bizarre, but utterly smashes the 'SK as distraction' concept.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
RAFO Mafia 19: Superlative Crisis! ISSUE TWO: BLACK MAGIC- WHOA, MAN!
03/11/2010 04:59:59 AM
- 2601 Views
I see two avenues to discuss here
03/11/2010 11:41:14 AM
- 824 Views
I was thinking about number 1.
03/11/2010 10:00:57 PM
- 841 Views
Regarding 2, and let me suggets a 3
04/11/2010 02:30:41 AM
- 894 Views
I, personally, agree with Isaac so here goes.
04/11/2010 11:33:07 PM
- 817 Views
O.......K..........
05/11/2010 11:43:14 PM
- 794 Views
Did Fist use his power last Night?
06/11/2010 03:41:05 AM
- 834 Views
It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 04:53:19 AM
- 817 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 05:30:00 PM
- 806 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 07:15:11 PM
- 857 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 08:18:16 AM
- 904 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 03:38:37 PM
- 857 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
- 899 Views
Huh, well Fox straight up told us his Mason group was a 3rd Fraction on Night 1
11/11/2010 12:55:50 AM
- 854 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:16:29 PM
- 913 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 07:16:20 PM
- 849 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 09:29:12 PM
- 927 Views
I am about 95% sure that WF targeted me last Night.
11/11/2010 01:04:34 AM
- 823 Views
Interesting.
11/11/2010 02:25:07 AM
- 873 Views
It's certainly possible.
11/11/2010 02:39:00 AM
- 859 Views
Now I'm curious
11/11/2010 03:33:46 AM
- 904 Views
Presumably because I'm not trying to get her lynched.
11/11/2010 03:53:54 AM
- 899 Views
Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 05:41:04 AM
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Re: Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 04:18:17 PM
- 915 Views
a scummer got caught on day one in the tower game
04/11/2010 06:42:15 PM
- 882 Views
also there was that time someone said they saw a black light instead of white
04/11/2010 07:52:41 PM
- 886 Views
That was Hobo in DK's crossover game. *NM*
04/11/2010 08:16:07 PM
- 479 Views
You know we could just forget about that. I wouldn't complain. *NM*
05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
- 525 Views
Hypocop? *NM*
03/11/2010 03:20:17 PM
- 533 Views
So help me I will spoil the entirety of ToM, people! (not just yet, though)
10/11/2010 02:51:46 AM
- 771 Views
I'm pretty sure if you do, you'll be lynched. *NM*
10/11/2010 09:19:43 PM
- 498 Views
Vote: No Lynch
13/11/2010 12:24:43 AM
- 872 Views
I am very much opposed to this idea
13/11/2010 02:04:27 PM
- 793 Views
Then offer an alternative
13/11/2010 11:10:42 PM
- 843 Views
Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:03:35 AM
- 778 Views
Re: Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:21:12 AM
- 862 Views
I had no RBIRL because my computer died.
14/11/2010 06:52:56 AM
- 757 Views
Ah, I see you did unvote. Very well. I still got my eye on you. *NM*
14/11/2010 06:55:30 AM
- 436 Views
LOL - I guess this is also my informal defense
14/11/2010 08:52:56 AM
- 844 Views
Saying it's not out-of-character to be scummy doesn't make you any less scummy.
14/11/2010 04:33:15 PM
- 874 Views
Watch the difference between what he says and what he is accused of.
14/11/2010 07:08:08 PM
- 736 Views
After this whole argument I've had with FT...
13/11/2010 11:42:32 PM
- 801 Views
People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 03:43:14 AM
- 781 Views
Re: People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 02:23:04 PM
- 950 Views
Vote: Isaac
13/11/2010 11:58:56 PM
- 887 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 03:02:15 AM
- 791 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 04:02:30 AM
- 878 Views
What was scummy?
14/11/2010 04:10:12 AM
- 909 Views
Re: What was scummy?
14/11/2010 05:41:44 AM
- 828 Views
Extrmely thin
14/11/2010 06:05:32 AM
- 978 Views
Actually...
14/11/2010 06:55:02 AM
- 882 Views
Re: Actually...
14/11/2010 07:44:33 AM
- 839 Views
Did you guys just blitz me?
14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
- 872 Views
Your not hammered yet are you?
14/11/2010 11:46:29 PM
- 806 Views
I think I might be, can never be sure what votes are worth in a heavy role game
14/11/2010 11:50:51 PM
- 817 Views
I'm potentially alive on a technicality
15/11/2010 12:02:36 AM
- 725 Views
Why don't you go ahead and claim then?
15/11/2010 12:11:03 AM
- 817 Views
Sure
15/11/2010 12:34:34 AM
- 787 Views
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
15/11/2010 02:13:23 AM
- 888 Views
I think so.
15/11/2010 01:25:46 AM
- 796 Views
Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:32:44 AM
- 806 Views
Re: Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:58:26 AM
- 934 Views
Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:22:06 AM
- 741 Views
Re: Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:35:49 AM
- 847 Views
I'm unvoting only if the defence is really foolproof, since now no-one can hammer without instantly
15/11/2010 07:18:05 AM
- 827 Views
EBWOP - The "only" in the title is rebundant, it was part of different title I abandoned. *NM*
15/11/2010 07:19:46 AM
- 509 Views
I guess the first title stands afterall I won't automatically unvote just because none should hammer
15/11/2010 08:19:00 AM
- 741 Views
I'll try to help Isaac out a bit here.
15/11/2010 01:11:11 PM
- 699 Views
Thanks, and a question too
15/11/2010 01:30:17 PM
- 751 Views
Well, I'll unvote if the third mason comes forward too. *NM*
15/11/2010 03:30:36 PM
- 477 Views
Jeez, when it rains, it pours
15/11/2010 10:34:54 PM
- 708 Views
OK Isaac
15/11/2010 11:14:45 PM
- 775 Views
My Defense Posts
16/11/2010 04:16:41 AM
- 781 Views
Defense A: The Fantastic Four
16/11/2010 04:31:11 AM
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Defense B: The Numbers Game
16/11/2010 04:36:59 AM
- 807 Views
"What motive would a scummer have"?
16/11/2010 05:56:04 PM
- 786 Views
Without any further questions though?
16/11/2010 11:51:42 PM
- 838 Views
If you see an avalanche coming, you hop on board (NOT a metaphor).
17/11/2010 12:12:31 AM
- 766 Views
Defense C: The Intro Flavor
16/11/2010 04:41:31 AM
- 917 Views
Eh ...
16/11/2010 10:00:21 PM
- 759 Views
Re: Eh ...
17/11/2010 02:33:27 AM
- 828 Views
We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 07:01:22 AM
- 868 Views
Re: We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 01:40:21 PM
- 764 Views
Yes, that was it.
16/11/2010 09:05:04 PM
- 795 Views
Re: Yes, that was it.
17/11/2010 02:55:58 AM
- 813 Views
Not at all.
17/11/2010 03:04:50 AM
- 821 Views
Well, that's a borderline lie
17/11/2010 04:29:47 AM
- 874 Views
How do you figure?
17/11/2010 05:46:37 AM
- 769 Views
I'd say its pretty pertinent to my defense
17/11/2010 06:49:20 AM
- 760 Views
All right, fair enough.
17/11/2010 07:19:37 AM
- 885 Views
Thanks for whakcing me before going to bed
17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
- 787 Views
By the way, I'd appreciate if no one had hammer till FT has a chance to reply and vice-versa
17/11/2010 07:46:18 AM
- 777 Views
I have evidence in favor of and yet against F-T's claim. Take it as you will.
17/11/2010 07:18:35 PM
- 856 Views
Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:20:58 PM
- 860 Views
Re: Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:24:34 PM
- 756 Views
Uh, that doesn't make a lot of sense
17/11/2010 07:22:59 PM
- 808 Views
That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 07:26:34 PM
- 776 Views
Re: That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 08:01:20 PM
- 856 Views
Actually that sounds a good plan
17/11/2010 08:06:50 PM
- 762 Views
Glad to hear you agree with yourself
17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
- 870 Views
:/ Wanna mention this before I forget. Little niggling that's been bugging me.
17/11/2010 03:03:27 AM
- 786 Views
Ah yes, I noticed that as well
17/11/2010 04:08:15 AM
- 779 Views
I just caught that
17/11/2010 04:53:16 AM
- 893 Views
No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:29:36 AM
- 811 Views
Re: No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:34:46 AM
- 822 Views
I trust him because of the way he's been acting.
17/11/2010 06:30:26 PM
- 869 Views
Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:28:31 PM
- 879 Views
Re: Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:33:51 PM
- 762 Views
I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 05:38:53 AM
- 723 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:04:08 AM
- 751 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:25:05 AM
- 814 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:50:04 AM
- 764 Views
In the interests of honesty, now would probably be a good time to mention ...
17/11/2010 09:22:14 PM
- 803 Views
What the balls?
17/11/2010 09:52:04 PM
- 809 Views
I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 02:02:03 PM
- 766 Views
Re: I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 03:18:50 PM
- 742 Views
Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 05:16:28 PM
- 938 Views
Re: Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 06:00:06 PM
- 790 Views
I'd also like to point out that we know nothing about you
18/11/2010 03:37:08 PM
- 761 Views
i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:45:10 PM
- 803 Views
Re: i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:49:54 PM
- 750 Views
They're also Marvel characters
18/11/2010 06:30:11 PM
- 812 Views
LOL, duly noted
18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
- 826 Views
Beast is really surprisingly un-beastly.
18/11/2010 06:28:15 PM
- 835 Views
Sure
18/11/2010 06:42:01 PM
- 819 Views
Alright, to hell with this. Let's test F-T's sanity. Vote: Isaac *NM*
21/11/2010 08:29:53 PM
- 508 Views
Ah, the frustration vote, normally my best friend
21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
- 795 Views
OK, here's a question for beet:
21/11/2010 10:37:08 PM
- 784 Views
You're not suggesting we lynch F-T instead of Isaac, are you?
21/11/2010 11:17:19 PM
- 787 Views
But we do get information
22/11/2010 12:17:20 AM
- 815 Views
<-- Btw, first time I got the hammer vote. My life is now complete. *NM*
22/11/2010 12:20:53 AM
- 485 Views
Well, congrats *NM*
22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
- 515 Views
Since this is a first for both of us...
22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
- 788 Views
When someone dies, you find out their role. "Psycho Cop" is a distinct role.
21/11/2010 11:22:50 PM
- 797 Views
Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:00:31 AM
- 755 Views
Re: Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:21:01 AM
- 863 Views
Isaac has been lynched!
22/11/2010 03:10:01 AM
- 701 Views
I can't help but feel a silver bullet would have been appropriate
22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
- 684 Views
I find that astounding, considering the level of suspicion generally laid upon you *NM*
22/11/2010 04:16:04 AM
- 554 Views
I might just mount your head on my wall .
22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
- 872 Views
I consider myself an integral part in this group.
22/11/2010 05:27:12 AM
- 859 Views