I merely wanted an appraisal of your confidence in their trustworthiness in case you turned out to be innocent after all. I assume they are guiltless unless you turn out innocent, it was merely a contingency plan. Unfortunately, it didn't help much, but then I don't think it'll matter, since I am confident in your guilt.
I can't help but point out that you just posted all those options in detail here
Let's look at some of your other falsheoods, both the outright and those by ommision.
You've claimed that there is a tangible difference to you between my suggesting a no lynch and voting for it, but you did it here
In that comment, in response to my saying that "...Insofar as the reason to vote no lynch instead of waiting for the deadline is to avoid wasting time and shedding bored players... a situation we clearly have here, you even say that I've favored it as a mod. I do, and you know and have shown that you know, that I do. That you dislike no lynches, does not change that I consider them the more pro-game solution than double-modkill or game death by inactivity. This is no secret, we've discussed many a time that even as a DF I will take risky action designed to keep people posting even if it draws eyes on me. I place game continuity above victory in individual games, and you know this, yet you lie outright when you say that in your eyes theirs a votable difference between suggesting and casting a vote to no lynch and you lie by omission when you imply I must have purely victory motives in mind for my actions. You also spin, because you've not explained how this scummy action I took would benefit me, you line up a series of rationales, all of which have improbable logic behind them, and say if all these are true then Isaac is scum, and when I countered them, you did not counter, you accused me of obfuscation.
Let's take another example:
He asks "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to worry about third party kills and to seek out third parties?" because the real question would be "Is it out of the ordinary for me, as town or scum, to deliberately not even try to find mafia?" And the answer is of course yes. Look at previous games, have you even seen Isaac say something to the effect of "I don't think we should will find mafia today, nor do I think we should even try"? And yet that's what he did with that serial killer chase.
You accuse me of the very thing you are doing. Your counter question "Is it out of the ordinary for me, as town or scum, to deliberately not even try to find mafia?" twists my original question, because in your form, seeking a third party is equal to ignoring a threat, as though pursuing a lynch on DF 1 proves I'm a scummer because I didn't pursue DF 2 while hunting DF 1. You then say in previous games I didn't said something, putting it in quotes, but you say 'something like' and provide no reference to it. But you leave out that I never said any such thing yesterday, I said the scum were shapeshifters and would match their character claims, and thus wouldn't be locatable by our character claims table, but a SK might be, this truthful and logical comment you are aware is both you then lift out of context as proof of perfidy... a lie by ommision, you never challenge the actual comment, you never even reference it, maybe because in context it is not an indicator of guilt at all?
The actual quote:
All right, so anyway, I do unsurprisingly have plots and schemes afoot but at the moment most have not yet reached 'the proper time', so I will focus on one particular avenue, which in this case was sort of a 'SK gambit'
Going into this it seemed a safe bet that our bad guys are shapechangers and already have a legitimate ID and knew they did, likely as major characters. One of them might have lied about all 4, but probably not, they likely listed their 'real' fake identity. I'm betting everyone did.
Let us assume for the moment that any role powers someone has are appropriate to their character. Now let us assume we have a vig or SK, knowing Beet, he wouldn't assign this role to a character that followed the Comics Code, which amongst other things doesn't let good guys kill people pretty much ever. I haven't done a definitive scouring of characters yet, but the perosn who most stuck out was WF, he had:
skip analysis
Anyway, that's my first thoughts, focusing in on a probable SK/vig isn't exactly ideal but realistically killing off a SK (and arguably a vig) on day 1 is preferable to catching a single scummer, since it eliminates a whole NK. And yes, I know I'm not very objective about vigs but I'll remind everyone that they have a a horrible track record with us, BA was the first vig to whack a non-townie and that was after he tried to whack the town doc, by and large our SK's and scummers have a better track record of killing off rival scummers than the vigs have. But again, there are a handful of major characters who I think would be obvious vig material, The Punisher being the blatant example, but plent yof more obvious vig candidates beside Deadpool, who is practically the poster-child for insanely homicidal third party guy.
Anyway, that's my first thoughts on it.
And yeah, to save the eventual comment, this is exactly what I'd be saying if I was the Evil Skrull Leader, I'm not, a general desire to do away with SK's and cultists is a trait I possess both when town and DF.
Going into this it seemed a safe bet that our bad guys are shapechangers and already have a legitimate ID and knew they did, likely as major characters. One of them might have lied about all 4, but probably not, they likely listed their 'real' fake identity. I'm betting everyone did.
Let us assume for the moment that any role powers someone has are appropriate to their character. Now let us assume we have a vig or SK, knowing Beet, he wouldn't assign this role to a character that followed the Comics Code, which amongst other things doesn't let good guys kill people pretty much ever. I haven't done a definitive scouring of characters yet, but the perosn who most stuck out was WF, he had:
skip analysis
Anyway, that's my first thoughts, focusing in on a probable SK/vig isn't exactly ideal but realistically killing off a SK (and arguably a vig) on day 1 is preferable to catching a single scummer, since it eliminates a whole NK. And yes, I know I'm not very objective about vigs but I'll remind everyone that they have a a horrible track record with us, BA was the first vig to whack a non-townie and that was after he tried to whack the town doc, by and large our SK's and scummers have a better track record of killing off rival scummers than the vigs have. But again, there are a handful of major characters who I think would be obvious vig material, The Punisher being the blatant example, but plent yof more obvious vig candidates beside Deadpool, who is practically the poster-child for insanely homicidal third party guy.
Anyway, that's my first thoughts on it.
And yeah, to save the eventual comment, this is exactly what I'd be saying if I was the Evil Skrull Leader, I'm not, a general desire to do away with SK's and cultists is a trait I possess both when town and DF.
Now, you would attempt on day 1, and later today as well, to say that it was a sign of my guilt that I'd suggest such a path, yet as I pointed out, and you never rebutted, that claim was based off an underlying assumption I would have to do it without knowing it was a scummer tell, the original accusation puts the claim to bed, as the bolded text indicates. So I accidentally dropped proof I was scummer in the very same message I outright say it could be seen that way. That makes no sense, and yet by accusing me from a set off comments in which it was impossible to miss my saying that, you once again lift something clearly out of context in a fashion that can not be an accident. "Knowingly Presenting False Evidence" is, some might say, not particularly pro-town
Let's go to your next one, in your original accusations on me that caused this avalanche:
He says "Led a lynch on an innocent townie? BlackAdder, Check." and tries to equate this with his serial killer hunt, leaving out that they are completely different - in BlackAdder's case, he was trying to catch a ninja and failed. In White Flame's case, he was not trying to find a Skrull and succeeded in not finding one. He tries to compare killing a townie by mistake to killing a townie by intent.
Again, utter word game, and real ironic when your whole point is to accuse me of doing that. In BlackAdders case, I was trying to find a scummer and failed. In WF's case, I was trying to find a scummer and failed, SK's a scummers. You ignore again the inconvenient truth that I'd already told everyone that going for a SK was not ideal but we had a decent lead and a SK is more dangeorus than a single scummer. Again, you use a flawed argument that translates as "This cop is clearly dirty and on the take because he ran past someone who was trying to steal a car while pursuing a murderer" it sounds reasonable to people only because there's a tag at the end 'Someone shot the fleeing murderer, ending the day, and he turned out to be innocent, it was not possible to go back for the car thief' and leaves out something really vital, I didn't run past someone stealing a car, I ran past when someone yelled 'He's stealing my car' and there was no sign of who 'he' was.
Next:
He asks irrelevant questions like "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to accuse someone on day 1?" or "Is it out of ordinary for me, as town or scum, to drop a lynch I feel is not viable?" in an attempt to get people to get in an agreeable position. After all, it is perfectly accurate to say that these are not abnormal behaviours, nor are they anti-town, and he hopes that people will use them to get a good impression of him and forget what the real point was.
No supporting evidence of that claim, you just say 'irrelevant' and bypass it, but its pretty relevant and you know it. You use both the day 1 vote and the day 1 non-vote for ? as evidence against me originally, yet when I point outthat is normal, instead of ceding the point as a flaw in your original accusation, you ignore that it was part of your accusation and accuse me of obfuscation by pointing it out.
Next:
Isaac writes in an attempt to obfuscate the issue. The facts are plain and simple: in the span of two days, Isaac has deliberately voted to protect the mafia from lynching.
In a post that is loaded with spin and obfuscation, you accuse me of doing it the whole while, then say I deliberately voted to protect the mafia. Yet your sole evidence of such a vote is that I went after a probable SK, needless to say, that's hardly anti-town, but certainly no more anti-town then everyone who voted for the lynch without pursuing other leads. That's a far more obvious scummer tell, I tell people I don't think the lynch is viable anymore on day 1 and we need to pursue other leads, I suggest some, and WF gets whacked in a few hours. You avoid all mention of that aspect of things repeatedly, that an avalanche vote off my suggestion we pursue other routes is not only bizarre, but utterly smashes the 'SK as distraction' concept.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
RAFO Mafia 19: Superlative Crisis! ISSUE TWO: BLACK MAGIC- WHOA, MAN!
03/11/2010 04:59:59 AM
- 2641 Views
I see two avenues to discuss here
03/11/2010 11:41:14 AM
- 866 Views
I was thinking about number 1.
03/11/2010 10:00:57 PM
- 880 Views
Regarding 2, and let me suggets a 3
04/11/2010 02:30:41 AM
- 927 Views
I, personally, agree with Isaac so here goes.
04/11/2010 11:33:07 PM
- 857 Views
O.......K..........
05/11/2010 11:43:14 PM
- 831 Views
Did Fist use his power last Night?
06/11/2010 03:41:05 AM
- 875 Views
It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 04:53:19 AM
- 854 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 05:30:00 PM
- 848 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 07:15:11 PM
- 896 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 08:18:16 AM
- 940 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 03:38:37 PM
- 904 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
- 937 Views
Huh, well Fox straight up told us his Mason group was a 3rd Fraction on Night 1
11/11/2010 12:55:50 AM
- 893 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:16:29 PM
- 948 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 07:16:20 PM
- 886 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 09:29:12 PM
- 961 Views
I am about 95% sure that WF targeted me last Night.
11/11/2010 01:04:34 AM
- 869 Views
Interesting.
11/11/2010 02:25:07 AM
- 905 Views
It's certainly possible.
11/11/2010 02:39:00 AM
- 897 Views
Now I'm curious
11/11/2010 03:33:46 AM
- 945 Views
Presumably because I'm not trying to get her lynched.
11/11/2010 03:53:54 AM
- 933 Views
Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 05:41:04 AM
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Re: Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 04:18:17 PM
- 950 Views
a scummer got caught on day one in the tower game
04/11/2010 06:42:15 PM
- 923 Views
also there was that time someone said they saw a black light instead of white
04/11/2010 07:52:41 PM
- 905 Views
That was Hobo in DK's crossover game. *NM*
04/11/2010 08:16:07 PM
- 493 Views
You know we could just forget about that. I wouldn't complain.
*NM*
05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
- 538 Views
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Hypocop? *NM*
03/11/2010 03:20:17 PM
- 548 Views
So help me I will spoil the entirety of ToM, people! (not just yet, though)
10/11/2010 02:51:46 AM
- 813 Views
I'm pretty sure if you do, you'll be lynched. *NM*
10/11/2010 09:19:43 PM
- 515 Views
Vote: No Lynch
13/11/2010 12:24:43 AM
- 905 Views
I am very much opposed to this idea
13/11/2010 02:04:27 PM
- 835 Views
Then offer an alternative
13/11/2010 11:10:42 PM
- 884 Views
Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:03:35 AM
- 817 Views
Re: Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:21:12 AM
- 885 Views
I had no RBIRL because my computer died.
14/11/2010 06:52:56 AM
- 799 Views
Ah, I see you did unvote. Very well. I still got my eye on you. *NM*
14/11/2010 06:55:30 AM
- 449 Views
LOL - I guess this is also my informal defense
14/11/2010 08:52:56 AM
- 880 Views
Saying it's not out-of-character to be scummy doesn't make you any less scummy.
14/11/2010 04:33:15 PM
- 897 Views
Watch the difference between what he says and what he is accused of.
14/11/2010 07:08:08 PM
- 769 Views
After this whole argument I've had with FT...
13/11/2010 11:42:32 PM
- 841 Views
People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 03:43:14 AM
- 818 Views
Re: People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 02:23:04 PM
- 991 Views
Vote: Isaac
13/11/2010 11:58:56 PM
- 931 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 03:02:15 AM
- 835 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 04:02:30 AM
- 917 Views
What was scummy?
14/11/2010 04:10:12 AM
- 950 Views
Re: What was scummy?
14/11/2010 05:41:44 AM
- 865 Views
Extrmely thin
14/11/2010 06:05:32 AM
- 1020 Views
Actually...
14/11/2010 06:55:02 AM
- 925 Views
Re: Actually...
14/11/2010 07:44:33 AM
- 876 Views
Did you guys just blitz me?
14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
- 910 Views
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Your not hammered yet are you?
14/11/2010 11:46:29 PM
- 841 Views
I think I might be, can never be sure what votes are worth in a heavy role game
14/11/2010 11:50:51 PM
- 861 Views
I'm potentially alive on a technicality
15/11/2010 12:02:36 AM
- 765 Views
Why don't you go ahead and claim then?
15/11/2010 12:11:03 AM
- 852 Views
Sure
15/11/2010 12:34:34 AM
- 824 Views
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
15/11/2010 02:13:23 AM
- 928 Views
I think so.
15/11/2010 01:25:46 AM
- 833 Views
Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:32:44 AM
- 842 Views
Re: Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:58:26 AM
- 972 Views
Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:22:06 AM
- 777 Views
Re: Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:35:49 AM
- 886 Views
I'm unvoting only if the defence is really foolproof, since now no-one can hammer without instantly
15/11/2010 07:18:05 AM
- 864 Views
EBWOP - The "only" in the title is rebundant, it was part of different title I abandoned. *NM*
15/11/2010 07:19:46 AM
- 528 Views
I guess the first title stands afterall I won't automatically unvote just because none should hammer
15/11/2010 08:19:00 AM
- 773 Views
I'll try to help Isaac out a bit here.
15/11/2010 01:11:11 PM
- 719 Views
Thanks, and a question too
15/11/2010 01:30:17 PM
- 785 Views
Well, I'll unvote if the third mason comes forward too. *NM*
15/11/2010 03:30:36 PM
- 491 Views
Jeez, when it rains, it pours
15/11/2010 10:34:54 PM
- 747 Views
OK Isaac
15/11/2010 11:14:45 PM
- 805 Views
My Defense Posts
16/11/2010 04:16:41 AM
- 818 Views
Defense A: The Fantastic Four
16/11/2010 04:31:11 AM
- 850 Views
Defense B: The Numbers Game
16/11/2010 04:36:59 AM
- 854 Views
"What motive would a scummer have"?
16/11/2010 05:56:04 PM
- 838 Views
Without any further questions though?
16/11/2010 11:51:42 PM
- 875 Views
If you see an avalanche coming, you hop on board (NOT a metaphor).
17/11/2010 12:12:31 AM
- 808 Views
Defense C: The Intro Flavor
16/11/2010 04:41:31 AM
- 955 Views
Eh ...
16/11/2010 10:00:21 PM
- 800 Views
Re: Eh ...
17/11/2010 02:33:27 AM
- 859 Views
We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 07:01:22 AM
- 904 Views
Re: We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 01:40:21 PM
- 791 Views
Yes, that was it.
16/11/2010 09:05:04 PM
- 831 Views
Re: Yes, that was it.
17/11/2010 02:55:58 AM
- 852 Views
Not at all.
17/11/2010 03:04:50 AM
- 841 Views
Well, that's a borderline lie
17/11/2010 04:29:47 AM
- 908 Views
How do you figure?
17/11/2010 05:46:37 AM
- 810 Views
I'd say its pretty pertinent to my defense
17/11/2010 06:49:20 AM
- 804 Views
All right, fair enough.
17/11/2010 07:19:37 AM
- 921 Views
Thanks for whakcing me before going to bed
17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
- 830 Views
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By the way, I'd appreciate if no one had hammer till FT has a chance to reply and vice-versa
17/11/2010 07:46:18 AM
- 822 Views
I have evidence in favor of and yet against F-T's claim. Take it as you will.
17/11/2010 07:18:35 PM
- 893 Views
Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:20:58 PM
- 906 Views
Re: Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:24:34 PM
- 794 Views
Uh, that doesn't make a lot of sense
17/11/2010 07:22:59 PM
- 852 Views
That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 07:26:34 PM
- 810 Views
Re: That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 08:01:20 PM
- 899 Views
Actually that sounds a good plan
17/11/2010 08:06:50 PM
- 801 Views
Glad to hear you agree with yourself
17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
- 910 Views
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:/ Wanna mention this before I forget. Little niggling that's been bugging me.
17/11/2010 03:03:27 AM
- 829 Views
Ah yes, I noticed that as well
17/11/2010 04:08:15 AM
- 822 Views
I just caught that
17/11/2010 04:53:16 AM
- 932 Views
No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:29:36 AM
- 844 Views
Re: No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:34:46 AM
- 858 Views
I trust him because of the way he's been acting.
17/11/2010 06:30:26 PM
- 911 Views
Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:28:31 PM
- 920 Views
Re: Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:33:51 PM
- 800 Views
I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 05:38:53 AM
- 761 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:04:08 AM
- 786 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:25:05 AM
- 854 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:50:04 AM
- 806 Views
In the interests of honesty, now would probably be a good time to mention ...
17/11/2010 09:22:14 PM
- 840 Views
What the balls?
17/11/2010 09:52:04 PM
- 846 Views
I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 02:02:03 PM
- 808 Views
Re: I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 03:18:50 PM
- 785 Views
Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 05:16:28 PM
- 974 Views
Re: Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 06:00:06 PM
- 826 Views
I'd also like to point out that we know nothing about you
18/11/2010 03:37:08 PM
- 804 Views
i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:45:10 PM
- 839 Views
Re: i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:49:54 PM
- 767 Views
They're also Marvel characters
18/11/2010 06:30:11 PM
- 849 Views
LOL, duly noted
18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
- 863 Views
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Beast is really surprisingly un-beastly.
18/11/2010 06:28:15 PM
- 866 Views
Sure
18/11/2010 06:42:01 PM
- 853 Views
Alright, to hell with this. Let's test F-T's sanity. Vote: Isaac *NM*
21/11/2010 08:29:53 PM
- 515 Views
Ah, the frustration vote, normally my best friend
21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
- 827 Views
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OK, here's a question for beet:
21/11/2010 10:37:08 PM
- 827 Views
You're not suggesting we lynch F-T instead of Isaac, are you?
21/11/2010 11:17:19 PM
- 822 Views
But we do get information
22/11/2010 12:17:20 AM
- 844 Views
<-- Btw, first time I got the hammer vote. My life is now complete. *NM*
22/11/2010 12:20:53 AM
- 501 Views
Well, congrats
*NM*
22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
- 529 Views
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Since this is a first for both of us...
22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
- 827 Views
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When someone dies, you find out their role. "Psycho Cop" is a distinct role.
21/11/2010 11:22:50 PM
- 835 Views
Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:00:31 AM
- 789 Views
Re: Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:21:01 AM
- 898 Views
Isaac has been lynched!
22/11/2010 03:10:01 AM
- 733 Views
I can't help but feel a silver bullet would have been appropriate
22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
- 719 Views
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I find that astounding, considering the level of suspicion generally laid upon you *NM*
22/11/2010 04:16:04 AM
- 568 Views
I might just mount your head on my wall
.
22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
- 915 Views
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I consider myself an integral part in this group.
22/11/2010 05:27:12 AM
- 905 Views