After reading through all of the defenses and thinking things over a bit, I've come to the same conclusion that I originally had. I really, really don't like seeing no-lynch as a serious suggestion.
Not liking it as a serious suggestion doesn't make its suggester a scummer, and under the circumstances, posting slump and how I'd proposed it during the previous posting slump, its a bit of a jump to assume I cheerfully wanted a no lynch to go down or something.
Is it? As you say, it's the second day in a row that you suggested one, and you followed the same formula both times. You made an argument against someone and when the town didn't follow suit you suggested no-lynch as an alternative. Yesterday everyone went along with your earlier plan and lynched White Flame. Maybe today you thought that they really would go with the no-lynch?
As F-T said, lynching is the only power that townies have as a group, and it's one of the very foundations of the game. Barring an extremely good vigilante, if we don't lynch, we won't win. If we don't have any evidence or any good targets, we should either dig deeper and try harder to find something, or we should lynch someone at random.
How about digging deeper, thus far no player besides myself had done any digging at all, and when I threw my shovel done and said 'seriously, help me dig or forget this new well' people decided to pick me up throw me down the well... without doing any digging on me either. All that's proven thus far is that you guys wanted a random lynch.
We just want a lynch. Obviously we'd prefer a well-reasoned one with a high probability of catching scum, but random lynch is better than no-lynch.
I've seen your arguments against random lynches, Isaac, and I must disagree with your conclusion. A random lynch is better than no lynch. It's true, as you say, that there is no skill or strategy involved if the lynch is truly random, but at least by trusting in pure dumb luck we still have a chance to win. If we vote to no-lynch, we're giving up. We'd be giving up at least on the day, and if we did it more often we'd be giving up on the game.
It does give a chance to 'win', its just a Pyrrhic Victory, the same as offering to flip a coin. It means nothing, in my opinion a no lynch is little better, but its a day not a game, because its trading more night actions for a NK. I don't like either option but no one was doing anything.
Except that in your case, it would become an empty victory either way. If you're telling the truth about your role (and if you're not, we'd have to lynch you for that too) then you don't have any night actions. You're trading your own ability to act during the day to count on someone else's ability to accomplish something productive at night. We can all probably be certain by now that we are in a fairly heavily roled game, but there's still no guarantee that the people with those roles will make the right choices. We could very well end up in exactly the same place tomorrow, except that the Skrull will have gotten a free kill out of it. I don't know about you, but I would never even consider making that sacrifice if I didn't have some amazing night powers. I probably wouldn't even consider it then.
So there we have it. Even if you are a hero, trying for a no-lynch is a scummy thing to do. I think you should be lynched on principle, just for that.
So even though you realize its not an indicator I'm scum, suggesting it, even when it was obviously designed to prod people to action to avoid it effectively happening by deadline or double modkill, is cause to kill me.
If it was indeed just a ploy to get people talking, then I would understand and even applaud the effort. If that was your intention though, it was not as obvious as you seem to think.
Besides, there is clear precedent for lynching people who demonstrate anti-town behavior even if they are not prob-scum.
And I think you will be, unless you can put forth a strong argument against someone else.
I suspect I will be able to do that. First, answer me too questions
Good, I'll look forward to seeing what you have. Meanwhile, I think that I will keep my vote where it is for now.
Do you think I thought we would vote for a no lynch? (I was surprised even one person voted for it but he's new)
It's possible. As I said, your suggestion followed the same basic formula as Day 1's, except that this time you actually voted for it. Maybe after lynching a townie yesterday you really did believe you could get a no-lynch today.
And if no, what would my motives be, as scum or town, for doing it? I mean I assume nobody's decided I suddenly do stuff for no reason. What motive would I have as a scummer who had little to no reason to think a no lynch would happen and would draw suspicion, to do such a thing?
As a townie, I suppose it could just be that you like trying new things. In the Pirates vs Ninjas game you suggested the encrypted mass roleclaim even though you admitted that you didn't think it would happen and even though early mass roleclaims are a bit scummy in their own rights. That one worked out very well for the town. As a townie, it is possible that you really were trying to help, although I would say that this particular tactic was misguided at best.
As scum, there are many reasons why you might employ such a strategy. You are, after all, the player who once won a game for the mafia by not using your night kill. It's hard to say what plans or plots you could be using.
It's also hard to say what additional powers and effects could be in play, since we know that this is a heavily roled game. Maybe you have some special Skrull power that gives you an extra nightkill if the town doesn't lynch someone? Maybe if the Negative Zone transporter thingy isn't on cooldown like it was yesterday you could throw someone into it?
There are just too many unknown variables at this time to be certain.
If you have no answer, then the only one which fits is that I did it to get people talking again, and that is pro-town and pro-game and I point out, was very successful, if not quite in the fashion I expected.
This is still possible, and it is the only scenario that looks good for you. I do want to see what else you can come up with, but right now I still think you're our best option.
RAFO Mafia 19: Superlative Crisis! ISSUE TWO: BLACK MAGIC- WHOA, MAN!
03/11/2010 04:59:59 AM
- 2601 Views
I see two avenues to discuss here
03/11/2010 11:41:14 AM
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I was thinking about number 1.
03/11/2010 10:00:57 PM
- 841 Views
Regarding 2, and let me suggets a 3
04/11/2010 02:30:41 AM
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I, personally, agree with Isaac so here goes.
04/11/2010 11:33:07 PM
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O.......K..........
05/11/2010 11:43:14 PM
- 794 Views
Did Fist use his power last Night?
06/11/2010 03:41:05 AM
- 834 Views
It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 04:53:19 AM
- 817 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 05:30:00 PM
- 805 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 07:15:11 PM
- 856 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 08:18:16 AM
- 903 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 03:38:37 PM
- 857 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
- 899 Views
Huh, well Fox straight up told us his Mason group was a 3rd Fraction on Night 1
11/11/2010 12:55:50 AM
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Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:16:29 PM
- 913 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 07:16:20 PM
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Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 09:29:12 PM
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I am about 95% sure that WF targeted me last Night.
11/11/2010 01:04:34 AM
- 823 Views
Interesting.
11/11/2010 02:25:07 AM
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It's certainly possible.
11/11/2010 02:39:00 AM
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Now I'm curious
11/11/2010 03:33:46 AM
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Presumably because I'm not trying to get her lynched.
11/11/2010 03:53:54 AM
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Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 05:41:04 AM
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Re: Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 04:18:17 PM
- 915 Views
a scummer got caught on day one in the tower game
04/11/2010 06:42:15 PM
- 882 Views
also there was that time someone said they saw a black light instead of white
04/11/2010 07:52:41 PM
- 886 Views
That was Hobo in DK's crossover game. *NM*
04/11/2010 08:16:07 PM
- 479 Views
You know we could just forget about that. I wouldn't complain. *NM*
05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
- 525 Views
Hypocop? *NM*
03/11/2010 03:20:17 PM
- 533 Views
So help me I will spoil the entirety of ToM, people! (not just yet, though)
10/11/2010 02:51:46 AM
- 771 Views
I'm pretty sure if you do, you'll be lynched. *NM*
10/11/2010 09:19:43 PM
- 498 Views
Vote: No Lynch
13/11/2010 12:24:43 AM
- 872 Views
I am very much opposed to this idea
13/11/2010 02:04:27 PM
- 793 Views
Then offer an alternative
13/11/2010 11:10:42 PM
- 843 Views
Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:03:35 AM
- 777 Views
Re: Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:21:12 AM
- 862 Views
I had no RBIRL because my computer died.
14/11/2010 06:52:56 AM
- 757 Views
Ah, I see you did unvote. Very well. I still got my eye on you. *NM*
14/11/2010 06:55:30 AM
- 436 Views
LOL - I guess this is also my informal defense
14/11/2010 08:52:56 AM
- 843 Views
Saying it's not out-of-character to be scummy doesn't make you any less scummy.
14/11/2010 04:33:15 PM
- 874 Views
Watch the difference between what he says and what he is accused of.
14/11/2010 07:08:08 PM
- 736 Views
After this whole argument I've had with FT...
13/11/2010 11:42:32 PM
- 801 Views
People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 03:43:14 AM
- 780 Views
Re: People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 02:23:04 PM
- 950 Views
Vote: Isaac
13/11/2010 11:58:56 PM
- 887 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 03:02:15 AM
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Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 04:02:30 AM
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What was scummy?
14/11/2010 04:10:12 AM
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Re: What was scummy?
14/11/2010 05:41:44 AM
- 827 Views
Extrmely thin
14/11/2010 06:05:32 AM
- 978 Views
Actually...
14/11/2010 06:55:02 AM
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Re: Actually...
14/11/2010 07:44:33 AM
- 839 Views
Did you guys just blitz me?
14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
- 872 Views
Your not hammered yet are you?
14/11/2010 11:46:29 PM
- 806 Views
I think I might be, can never be sure what votes are worth in a heavy role game
14/11/2010 11:50:51 PM
- 817 Views
I'm potentially alive on a technicality
15/11/2010 12:02:36 AM
- 724 Views
Why don't you go ahead and claim then?
15/11/2010 12:11:03 AM
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Sure
15/11/2010 12:34:34 AM
- 787 Views
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
15/11/2010 02:13:23 AM
- 888 Views
I think so.
15/11/2010 01:25:46 AM
- 795 Views
Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:32:44 AM
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Re: Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:58:26 AM
- 934 Views
Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:22:06 AM
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Re: Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:35:49 AM
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I'm unvoting only if the defence is really foolproof, since now no-one can hammer without instantly
15/11/2010 07:18:05 AM
- 827 Views
EBWOP - The "only" in the title is rebundant, it was part of different title I abandoned. *NM*
15/11/2010 07:19:46 AM
- 509 Views
I guess the first title stands afterall I won't automatically unvote just because none should hammer
15/11/2010 08:19:00 AM
- 740 Views
I'll try to help Isaac out a bit here.
15/11/2010 01:11:11 PM
- 699 Views
Thanks, and a question too
15/11/2010 01:30:17 PM
- 751 Views
Well, I'll unvote if the third mason comes forward too. *NM*
15/11/2010 03:30:36 PM
- 477 Views
Jeez, when it rains, it pours
15/11/2010 10:34:54 PM
- 708 Views
OK Isaac
15/11/2010 11:14:45 PM
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My Defense Posts
16/11/2010 04:16:41 AM
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Defense A: The Fantastic Four
16/11/2010 04:31:11 AM
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Defense B: The Numbers Game
16/11/2010 04:36:59 AM
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"What motive would a scummer have"?
16/11/2010 05:56:04 PM
- 786 Views
Without any further questions though?
16/11/2010 11:51:42 PM
- 838 Views
If you see an avalanche coming, you hop on board (NOT a metaphor).
17/11/2010 12:12:31 AM
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Defense C: The Intro Flavor
16/11/2010 04:41:31 AM
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Eh ...
16/11/2010 10:00:21 PM
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Re: Eh ...
17/11/2010 02:33:27 AM
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We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 07:01:22 AM
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Re: We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 01:40:21 PM
- 763 Views
Yes, that was it.
16/11/2010 09:05:04 PM
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Re: Yes, that was it.
17/11/2010 02:55:58 AM
- 813 Views
Not at all.
17/11/2010 03:04:50 AM
- 820 Views
Well, that's a borderline lie
17/11/2010 04:29:47 AM
- 873 Views
How do you figure?
17/11/2010 05:46:37 AM
- 769 Views
I'd say its pretty pertinent to my defense
17/11/2010 06:49:20 AM
- 760 Views
All right, fair enough.
17/11/2010 07:19:37 AM
- 885 Views
Thanks for whakcing me before going to bed
17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
- 787 Views
By the way, I'd appreciate if no one had hammer till FT has a chance to reply and vice-versa
17/11/2010 07:46:18 AM
- 777 Views
I have evidence in favor of and yet against F-T's claim. Take it as you will.
17/11/2010 07:18:35 PM
- 856 Views
Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:20:58 PM
- 860 Views
Re: Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:24:34 PM
- 756 Views
Uh, that doesn't make a lot of sense
17/11/2010 07:22:59 PM
- 808 Views
That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 07:26:34 PM
- 776 Views
Re: That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 08:01:20 PM
- 856 Views
Actually that sounds a good plan
17/11/2010 08:06:50 PM
- 761 Views
Glad to hear you agree with yourself
17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
- 870 Views
Vote: Isaac
17/11/2010 12:45:26 AM
- 770 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
17/11/2010 02:05:03 AM
- 806 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
17/11/2010 03:12:21 AM
- 880 Views
:/ Wanna mention this before I forget. Little niggling that's been bugging me.
17/11/2010 03:03:27 AM
- 786 Views
Ah yes, I noticed that as well
17/11/2010 04:08:15 AM
- 779 Views
I just caught that
17/11/2010 04:53:16 AM
- 893 Views
No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:29:36 AM
- 811 Views
Re: No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:34:46 AM
- 821 Views
I trust him because of the way he's been acting.
17/11/2010 06:30:26 PM
- 869 Views
Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:28:31 PM
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Re: Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:33:51 PM
- 762 Views
I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 05:38:53 AM
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Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:04:08 AM
- 751 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:25:05 AM
- 814 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:50:04 AM
- 764 Views
In the interests of honesty, now would probably be a good time to mention ...
17/11/2010 09:22:14 PM
- 802 Views
What the balls?
17/11/2010 09:52:04 PM
- 809 Views
I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 02:02:03 PM
- 766 Views
Re: I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 03:18:50 PM
- 741 Views
Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 05:16:28 PM
- 938 Views
Re: Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 06:00:06 PM
- 790 Views
I'd also like to point out that we know nothing about you
18/11/2010 03:37:08 PM
- 761 Views
i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:45:10 PM
- 803 Views
Re: i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:49:54 PM
- 750 Views
They're also Marvel characters
18/11/2010 06:30:11 PM
- 811 Views
LOL, duly noted
18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
- 826 Views
Beast is really surprisingly un-beastly.
18/11/2010 06:28:15 PM
- 835 Views
Sure
18/11/2010 06:42:01 PM
- 818 Views
Alright, to hell with this. Let's test F-T's sanity. Vote: Isaac *NM*
21/11/2010 08:29:53 PM
- 507 Views
Ah, the frustration vote, normally my best friend
21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
- 795 Views
OK, here's a question for beet:
21/11/2010 10:37:08 PM
- 784 Views
You're not suggesting we lynch F-T instead of Isaac, are you?
21/11/2010 11:17:19 PM
- 787 Views
But we do get information
22/11/2010 12:17:20 AM
- 814 Views
<-- Btw, first time I got the hammer vote. My life is now complete. *NM*
22/11/2010 12:20:53 AM
- 485 Views
Well, congrats *NM*
22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
- 515 Views
Since this is a first for both of us...
22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
- 787 Views
When someone dies, you find out their role. "Psycho Cop" is a distinct role.
21/11/2010 11:22:50 PM
- 797 Views
Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:00:31 AM
- 755 Views
Re: Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:21:01 AM
- 863 Views
Isaac has been lynched!
22/11/2010 03:10:01 AM
- 701 Views
I can't help but feel a silver bullet would have been appropriate
22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
- 683 Views
I find that astounding, considering the level of suspicion generally laid upon you *NM*
22/11/2010 04:16:04 AM
- 554 Views
I might just mount your head on my wall .
22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
- 872 Views
I consider myself an integral part in this group.
22/11/2010 05:27:12 AM
- 859 Views