Maybe you should explain why you think a 'No Lynch' on Day 1 is always bad
Isaac Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 02:05:16 AM
He didn't suggest a no-lynch, I intended to write that he suggested the possibility of a no-lynch, but for some reason failed to type it in. No, if he were actually advocating something like that, I'd have mentioned it earlier. As for the reference, it's here:
in all fairness a day 1 no lynch isn't a bad thing when you expect two NK factions instead of just one, since the odds one or both of the NKS will hit a scummer are fairly similiar to the odds of getting a scummer lynched. I'd still rather see the chair go into a more vote-willing player's hands though, in case we find a decent target
We haven't really discussed No Lynching in a long time, mostly because there hasn't been an occasion since the idea's been raised where I thought it useful to point out the flaws in the reasoning behind it. I think I've even joked via NB to a few people about how it was based on flawed reasoning.
No lynching on Day 1, as a regular policy, is a bad idea. But there are occasions where it can be tactically wise, and yes I specifically mean on Day 1. I've previously supported it or not objected to it because I was either the mod or a DF, or on the two occasions since we started this policy that I've been a townie, I thought we had good day 1 candidates, this is vindicated since on both those occasions we lynched a DF on Day 1.
If nothing else, we should explain why it is a good/bad policy since we have newer players and frankly it's been around a year since we last discussed this policy in any detail
Here are my assertions:
1. In any game where you have strong reason to believe the scum are not a single united faction, a day 1 No Lynch or stretch to the deadline is a pro-town tactic and a pro-game tactic, so long as the majority of players are still willing to lynch anyone who appears significantly more prob-scum then random and are still willing to threaten lynch on those who do not cooperate with day-time investigations. Insofar as the reason to vote no lynch instead of waiting for the deadline is to avoid wasting time and shedding bored players, our tendency to use flexible deadlines that kick in on post-slumps eliminates many of the useful purposes of a no lynch, but not all.
2. A day 1 near-random lynch is less likely to get a townie than a purely random lynch is, and a purely random lynch is anti-town unless used strictly as a threat with teeth against post-slumpage and lurking.
3. Never Lynch anyone who isn't either A) Viewed as significantly more likely to be a scummer than random, B) Behaving in an anti-town or anti-game fashion.
Note: For those wondering, anti-town is behavior which - even if produced by a townie - is against the town's best interests. Anti-game behavior is anything which damages the game itself. In case you're curious, I view the latter as worse, even when I'm town, the former obviously doesn't bug me if I'm mod, DF, or 3rd party. A regular tendency to no lynch on Day 1 is not anti-town, though it can be - it is very anti-game.
Individual day 1 no lynches can be profitable for the Town, it just depends on the circumstances, only regular usage without restriction is anti-town or anti-game. A Day 1 Lynch of anyone who has not exhibited anti-town or scummer behavior is never a good idea, unless specifically being used to prevent weak defenses, lurking, or a failure to press cases and investigate... however, those are all anti-town behaviors, and thus do not actually represent exceptions.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
RAFO Mafia 17, Day 1: Trouble in Paradise
30/05/2010 10:43:08 PM
- 4039 Views
Miscellaneous information
30/05/2010 10:44:49 PM
- 1335 Views
Since I have not seen anybody else do this before (and it's a great way to start a conversation)
31/05/2010 07:33:03 PM
- 1276 Views
EBWOP: Don't know why this was not in the root, where I thought I put it
31/05/2010 07:34:09 PM
- 1279 Views
Re: RAFO Mafia 17, Day 1: Trouble in Paradise
31/05/2010 03:08:30 AM
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I'm afraid I'm already waaay in over my head
31/05/2010 07:20:54 AM
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Don't forget the 5th element *NM*
31/05/2010 08:25:13 AM
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Okay, so, let's get this started.
31/05/2010 07:48:13 AM
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Well that depends.
31/05/2010 06:53:02 PM
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Wow, of all the people here to be unfamiliar with a character.
31/05/2010 07:43:54 PM
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I do...(for both)
31/05/2010 07:09:06 PM
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I would be willing to bet that's true.
31/05/2010 08:50:05 PM
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So are you saying the Tourists are also all... tourists?
31/05/2010 08:54:31 PM
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EBWOP
31/05/2010 08:57:51 PM
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Yes, and I recently read/watched/listened to whatever it is I'm from, too. Loved it *NM*
31/05/2010 07:29:20 PM
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No idea. *NM*
31/05/2010 10:28:53 PM
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Yes to both. *NM*
01/06/2010 12:54:55 AM
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Wait, scratch that. I don't have a place of origin. *NM*
01/06/2010 03:06:49 AM
- 672 Views
I didn't think he meant place but rather the work that you're from *NM*
01/06/2010 03:20:59 AM
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If there is an Oompa Loompa song whenever someone dies, I will die happy *NM*
31/05/2010 06:09:38 PM
- 729 Views
+1
31/05/2010 08:35:28 PM
- 1322 Views
+1 to that song. *NM*
31/05/2010 08:46:39 PM
- 776 Views
Since I tried to start a conversation, but failed (because I posted in the wrong place?)
01/06/2010 07:25:29 AM
- 1186 Views
ummm, dear?
01/06/2010 10:49:54 AM
- 1219 Views
^^^Attention-seeker = Jester^^^
01/06/2010 11:07:44 PM
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Some first thoughts
01/06/2010 10:27:38 PM
- 1163 Views
Current Info (Table)
01/06/2010 10:40:41 PM
- 1434 Views
No and yes.
02/06/2010 02:23:49 AM
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Random stone throwing super dick vote
02/06/2010 08:00:57 PM
- 1256 Views
Just do your best on answers, the questions are deliberately vague
02/06/2010 12:43:25 AM
- 1150 Views
OK, so we all know who we are. Now what?
02/06/2010 05:12:38 PM
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We seem to have two random votes already
02/06/2010 06:06:29 PM
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What do y'all think?
03/06/2010 12:36:23 AM
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I won't be participating in that.
03/06/2010 01:06:26 AM
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That's pretty legit.
03/06/2010 02:05:50 AM
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We could talk about Napoleon62 and Isaac voting each other for no reason *NM*
03/06/2010 02:43:03 AM
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You think there are ulterior motives?
03/06/2010 03:07:28 AM
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Fair enough. Good reason not to.
03/06/2010 03:45:35 AM
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I actually think it's a decent idea, just needs a modification
03/06/2010 04:33:47 AM
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I remember that.
03/06/2010 06:10:33 AM
- 1138 Views
Okay, so next 'question'
03/06/2010 07:57:08 AM
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Ranagrande really seemed to make an effort to go out of his way here.
03/06/2010 01:31:03 PM
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But if you're from something really weird
03/06/2010 05:54:37 PM
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You don't even need to pick a bunch of weird things
03/06/2010 08:23:19 PM
- 1340 Views
Is one of those two sets of 5 your answer to your 5 worlds question?
06/06/2010 10:03:52 PM
- 1332 Views
IMPORTANT POINT
04/06/2010 05:04:18 AM
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Who, exactly, is this warning intended for?
04/06/2010 05:30:05 AM
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Re: Who, exactly, is this warning intended for?
04/06/2010 05:37:25 AM
- 1270 Views
Re: Who, exactly, is this warning intended for?
04/06/2010 05:49:00 AM
- 1255 Views
It is an interesting theory, though
04/06/2010 07:37:30 AM
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Re: It is an interesting theory, though
04/06/2010 08:41:16 AM
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I was assuming she meant it the same way we warn hypocoppers
04/06/2010 03:51:06 PM
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jargon question.
04/06/2010 06:19:51 PM
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Sorry I screwed up your fancy plans.
04/06/2010 08:05:18 PM
- 1242 Views
I must be really tired.
05/06/2010 02:52:32 AM
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Honestly, anyone trying to lynch based solely on series
05/06/2010 04:00:13 AM
- 1130 Views
Out of curiosity, what did he say?
05/06/2010 06:47:43 AM
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He said he was programmed.
05/06/2010 08:22:45 AM
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But... wasn't that the robot game, where we were all programmed?
05/06/2010 07:37:03 PM
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Actually, my own RM didn't mention robots at all, so odds are neither did DK's
05/06/2010 09:00:52 PM
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Can we agree on revealing gender? *NM*
04/06/2010 06:20:29 PM
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Will that really help us tell who is mafia and who is not?
04/06/2010 06:39:07 PM
- 1330 Views
Will listing off five random worlds?
05/06/2010 04:09:55 AM
- 1123 Views
Re: Will listing off five random worlds?
06/06/2010 10:11:18 PM
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btw, what happened to the Chair election?
04/06/2010 10:46:41 PM
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I'm relatively content to give it to anyone who doesn't have day 1 lynch jitters
05/06/2010 12:12:19 AM
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OK, since I'm apparently Chair (including a Table) *updated Jun 9th*
06/06/2010 07:43:10 PM
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Male. . . .again. *NM*
07/06/2010 08:37:52 AM
- 732 Views
Napoleon's going to have a hard time
07/06/2010 09:10:21 AM
- 1219 Views
Let's not. *NM*
07/06/2010 08:06:58 PM
- 722 Views
I'll call you Smurfette anyway. You know, just because I can. *NM*
07/06/2010 08:29:35 PM
- 683 Views
Settings (Table)
07/06/2010 12:47:35 AM
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Uh
07/06/2010 02:13:40 AM
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Can someone explain for the slow kids?
08/06/2010 06:59:47 AM
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Short answer: click the little links at the right side of the page
08/06/2010 10:56:37 PM
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Anyone else get the feeling we have some "nontraditional" settings?
08/06/2010 12:04:23 AM
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Didn't I suggest that from the beginning? *NM*
08/06/2010 03:08:36 AM
- 711 Views
I must say that it makes me uncomfortable
08/06/2010 07:40:00 AM
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Just went back: ranagrande told me knowing settings is not vital to playing. A slight relief. *NM*
08/06/2010 07:49:10 AM
- 767 Views
Two new thoughts
08/06/2010 07:48:24 AM
- 1268 Views
Re: Two new thoughts
09/06/2010 12:02:01 AM
- 1308 Views
Re: Two new thoughts
09/06/2010 04:31:06 AM
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Re: Two new thoughts
09/06/2010 04:57:02 AM
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In which I spoil everyone's identity! (Well, maybe not)
09/06/2010 07:34:08 AM
- 1115 Views
Whoops, replied to the wrong spot... ignore this one, look below! *NM*
09/06/2010 07:35:40 AM
- 716 Views
In which I spoil everyone's identity! (Well, maybe not)
09/06/2010 07:35:10 AM
- 1261 Views
Not sure about the Talic vote, but
09/06/2010 10:35:25 AM
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Agree
09/06/2010 12:24:47 PM
- 1242 Views
Yeah, I'll be participating even less than before.
09/06/2010 06:10:34 PM
- 1284 Views
Re: Yeah, I'll be participating even less than before.
09/06/2010 06:26:08 PM
- 1238 Views
Re: Yeah, I'll be participating even less than before.
09/06/2010 08:53:53 PM
- 1270 Views
Maybe you should explain why you think a 'No Lynch' on Day 1 is always bad
10/06/2010 02:05:16 AM
- 1242 Views
Do we have any reason to believe that the scum are not a single united faction? *NM*
10/06/2010 02:23:11 AM
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I'd say so, it's indicated in the intro text and it's been normal of late
10/06/2010 02:35:26 AM
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Because it is always bad. Seems like the ideal reason.
10/06/2010 04:21:10 AM
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Good points.
10/06/2010 04:45:24 AM
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Re: Because it is always bad. Seems like the ideal reason.
10/06/2010 05:03:15 AM
- 1243 Views
We might randomly lynch (or try to lynch) someone who is part of a faction
10/06/2010 06:37:48 AM
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I don't believe in completely random lynches.
10/06/2010 04:35:42 PM
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I feel like random lynches are a really good place for scum to hide.
10/06/2010 06:19:22 PM
- 1267 Views
'Seems' isn't 'Is', a dead townie is a dead townie
10/06/2010 05:57:19 AM
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Which is pretty much the point.
10/06/2010 05:39:36 PM
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Re: Which is pretty much the point.
10/06/2010 06:31:40 PM
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Re: Which is pretty much the point.
11/06/2010 01:56:41 AM
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Re: Which is pretty much the point.
11/06/2010 12:58:25 AM
- 1292 Views
Incidentally, how likely do you think it is that I am a Darkfriend?
11/06/2010 01:34:55 AM
- 1284 Views
Probably less than random with some caveats, over all, roughly random
11/06/2010 02:21:24 AM
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Re: Probably less than random with some caveats, over all, roughly random
11/06/2010 02:40:33 AM
- 1320 Views
I suppose we're back to DefCon 5
11/06/2010 03:36:12 AM
- 1294 Views
Hmm... I did forget the "main character" thing. Regardless, Talic is Captain Morgan
09/06/2010 11:25:03 PM
- 1310 Views
So sorry guys
10/06/2010 06:31:49 AM
- 1279 Views
No problem
10/06/2010 04:17:27 PM
- 1327 Views
Any chance we can get Gher to replace in?
10/06/2010 07:30:04 PM
- 1443 Views
An addition to my Talic accusation
10/06/2010 08:48:14 AM
- 1271 Views
Duffman wouldn't be awesome?
10/06/2010 10:31:30 AM
- 1248 Views
Oh come on.
10/06/2010 05:56:54 PM
- 1293 Views
I maintain it made sense
11/06/2010 02:55:39 AM
- 1219 Views
Combined Info (Table)
11/06/2010 04:33:01 AM
- 1310 Views
The All-Seeing Eye of Sauron is upon you... let the brutal analysis begin
11/06/2010 05:16:27 AM
- 1218 Views
Hmm ... I think I am working from a different definition of Modern Real Earth.
11/06/2010 06:37:04 AM
- 1238 Views
Re: Hmm ... I think I am working from a different definition of Modern Real Earth.
11/06/2010 12:50:16 PM
- 1266 Views
Re: The All-Seeing Eye of Sauron is upon you... let the brutal analysis begin
12/06/2010 03:33:37 PM
- 1319 Views
RBIRL for another effing week.
13/06/2010 01:55:52 AM
- 1262 Views
I am forced to assume
13/06/2010 02:46:47 PM
- 1229 Views
I'm not busy at all! Let's murder someone!
13/06/2010 04:06:04 AM
- 1167 Views
Re: I'm not busy at all! Let's murder someone!
13/06/2010 02:16:40 PM
- 1214 Views
Good point.
13/06/2010 06:20:55 PM
- 1210 Views
Before I basically disappear from this thread for about a week...
13/06/2010 08:55:03 PM
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Re: Before I basically disappear from this thread for about a week...
14/06/2010 02:35:18 AM
- 1430 Views
Okay, pushing forward
14/06/2010 04:29:20 PM
- 1483 Views
Pledge: No; CON: Sure
15/06/2010 12:31:57 AM
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So...
15/06/2010 01:04:11 AM
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If you will allow me to be pedantic.
15/06/2010 01:24:07 AM
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Ok, I just want to say I'm sorry for not posting as much as I normally do
15/06/2010 02:52:31 AM
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Okay, now you're just pushing for a No-Lynch in different terms.
15/06/2010 04:49:26 AM
- 1239 Views
<coughs> Not trying to imply you didn't actually read the post here, but...
15/06/2010 07:35:44 AM
- 1110 Views
Also...
15/06/2010 03:12:18 PM
- 1300 Views
BA has a point- townies ALREADY have an incentive to ask questions. Why reward DFs?
15/06/2010 07:56:04 AM
- 1205 Views
Seeing hwo you're trying to protect me from getting Lynched
15/06/2010 12:40:27 PM
- 1200 Views
Well, the lengthy posts are for clarity, apparently I wasn't lengthy enough.
15/06/2010 05:05:22 PM
- 1211 Views
Every vanilla is supposed to say yes.
15/06/2010 06:13:08 PM
- 1285 Views
Which of course brings about the real problem, which is the opposite of what you say.
15/06/2010 06:26:42 PM
- 1224 Views
Let me hold off on answering this, if you don't mind
15/06/2010 07:14:25 PM
- 1219 Views
Fine, I'm not in a hurry. *NM*
15/06/2010 07:17:10 PM
- 819 Views
Let me run another possible question by you
15/06/2010 08:18:33 PM
- 1261 Views
By the way, this is sort of a revision of white flame's question
15/06/2010 08:21:32 PM
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At first glance, I don't see any problem with it.
15/06/2010 09:31:44 PM
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to get the game moving
15/06/2010 08:53:38 PM
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go on... *NM*
15/06/2010 09:38:13 PM
- 759 Views
its day one, do i realy need a reason? *NM*
15/06/2010 09:56:59 PM
- 757 Views
It is customary *NM*
15/06/2010 10:01:25 PM
- 761 Views
well...
15/06/2010 11:04:29 PM
- 1196 Views
Next Question
15/06/2010 09:56:10 PM
- 1199 Views
Strong Yes
16/06/2010 06:38:53 AM
- 1271 Views
Didn't you already say you were a manly man?
16/06/2010 12:52:57 PM
- 1257 Views
Who isn't answering questions (Table)
17/06/2010 03:13:58 PM
- 1171 Views
One of my answers
18/06/2010 12:50:15 PM
- 1192 Views
It won't be too much longer
18/06/2010 05:25:36 PM
- 1144 Views
All right, let's do this, I have two people to accuse
19/06/2010 08:36:14 PM
- 1185 Views
why just FOS?
19/06/2010 09:48:25 PM
- 1198 Views
I can't vote for two people at once
19/06/2010 10:12:10 PM
- 1151 Views
Honestly, I'm in standby at this point.
20/06/2010 09:31:42 AM
- 1228 Views
Just for you Beet, a non-acronym version
20/06/2010 05:13:07 PM
- 1227 Views
Re: All right, let's do this, I have two people to accuse
20/06/2010 01:29:43 PM
- 1297 Views
I'll reply to this in bits, but first:
20/06/2010 06:09:26 PM
- 1254 Views
Re: I'll reply to this in bits, but first:
20/06/2010 06:44:33 PM
- 1176 Views
Let me extend you an offer
20/06/2010 08:24:11 PM
- 1306 Views
A typo-less message implies I'm distracted? How?
21/06/2010 04:41:17 AM
- 1300 Views
No, you said you were distracted, I said the message looks like you want people to think so
21/06/2010 04:52:36 AM
- 1303 Views
I thought I did address the accusation.
21/06/2010 05:06:41 AM
- 1205 Views
See, and I know you're gonna think that was an intentional typo to prove a point. It wasn't, honest
21/06/2010 05:09:05 AM
- 1344 Views
I'm not really interested in typos one way or another
21/06/2010 05:16:19 AM
- 1276 Views
I'm a Barbie girl, in a Barbie world.
21/06/2010 05:27:27 AM
- 1251 Views
And now I'm gonna sleep. I'll get to your questions in the morning.
21/06/2010 05:29:08 AM
- 1213 Views
Aqua aside, why did you answer UNC for MRE and MCS?
21/06/2010 05:35:31 AM
- 1167 Views
Re: Aqua aside, why did you answer UNC for MRE and MCS?
21/06/2010 02:59:05 PM
- 1253 Views
I think UNC is consistent for MRE for Barbie
21/06/2010 06:51:13 PM
- 1219 Views
For the record, I did eventually change my consistency to a yes.
21/06/2010 07:17:09 PM
- 1199 Views
Possible, and MCS?
21/06/2010 07:21:29 PM
- 1205 Views
Yeah, that's also sketchy.
21/06/2010 07:28:24 PM
- 1190 Views
Re: Yeah, that's also sketchy.
21/06/2010 08:03:27 PM
- 1199 Views
Kronin's Barbie, but claimed he wasn't a major character? Vote: Kronin
21/06/2010 11:39:34 PM
- 1250 Views
I'd like a roleclaim.
22/06/2010 12:48:13 AM
- 1222 Views
Honestly, looking back, consistency should've been a yes.
22/06/2010 01:21:16 AM
- 1269 Views
Each day you can be a different role? That's kind of awesome *NM*
22/06/2010 07:22:35 AM
- 748 Views
Well, I knew it would come down to this, as soon as you pointed a finger to me.
21/06/2010 08:02:42 AM
- 1192 Views
Wow, so I suppose these questions can be used in a town friendly way
20/06/2010 02:06:15 PM
- 1294 Views
Ok, let's avoid the horizontal scroll
22/06/2010 01:25:27 AM
- 1215 Views
"You lie you die" is sound policy not only Day 1, but every Day.
22/06/2010 01:40:46 AM
- 1225 Views
Re: Ok, let's avoid the horizontal scroll
22/06/2010 01:43:07 AM
- 1194 Views
I suppose I'll join in
22/06/2010 01:45:48 AM
- 1236 Views
Re: Ok, let's avoid the horizontal scroll
22/06/2010 04:15:44 AM
- 1154 Views
Re: Ok, let's avoid the horizontal scroll
22/06/2010 04:31:27 AM
- 1203 Views
My answers to the 2 questions asked...
20/06/2010 05:31:22 PM
- 1161 Views
Kronin al'Sulc has been lynched
22/06/2010 01:44:22 PM
- 1241 Views