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Re: I think that's a good question for Isaac Isaac Send a noteboard - 24/05/2010 08:13:24 AM
... but as you can see from reading ranagrande's message, it seems obvious that from his perspective, he would have died had you not interfered.
Why did the two of us received different perspectives on the outcome of the FaL NK?


I believe you all received the same perspective, minus POV. From their perspectives they were both being hinted that something else could have interfered, but that they were pretty evenly matched, both roles were entitled to know which is why they even got the 'slightly weakened' descriptors. It was built in for Bergioyn and DK to know that 'something power based but not a standard saidar weave' had interfered with their attacks if you docced their target whereas the channelers, if you docced them against an attack that occured, would know the power help foil it. But the language was 'Docced them on a night they were attacked' not 'stopped the attack', this would tend to be the same thing, this just happened to be the exception, since ranagrande beat back the attack on his own from tying on the RPS as an equally powerful channeler to the attacker. Writing flavor can always be a bit ambigous, but the important things that had to put ito the mssages were:

1. DK must know she got a tie result
2. Ranagrande must know he could beat the attack on his own
3. DK must know something OP-based and not likely a weave of ranagrande's interfered in the attack
4. Ranagrande must know something OP-based not of his doing or his attackers interfered, with strong hints of saidin but nothing conclusive.
5. BlackAdder must know his doc-target survived
6. BlackAdder must know his ward was punctured with foreign Saidar, e.g. not his or his ward's personal channeling
7. BlackAdder should know that his doc ability was not specifically the reason why his doc-target didn't die.
8. Neither DK or Ranagrande should see BlackAdder
9. Neither BlackAdder or ranagrande should see DK
10. Neither BlackAdder or DK were seen and should be told so

That's the mechanics that went down based off the roles and rules, the flavor was written to meet that, apparently it left people unclear about what happened but that was fine just so long as those 10 stipulations were used.

Your full dawn 5 NBs, flavor plus notes form mod in those NBs:

Dawn 5 Message – BlackAdder
You doze off in a chair in your room late in the night, but wake in alarm as you feel a powerful force strike your wards, tearing through them. Racing out of your room toward where you felt the strike come from, you see smoke and fire everywhere in the hall, Ranagrande is rising, apparently having been knocked down by some force, but does not appear to be badly injured, and does not see you. Based on the damage, you doubt Ranagrande would be so well off even with your protection had not something else also happened. Channeling quickly you dampen some of the flames, but not wanting to risk exposure and realizing that nothing is in danger but the rugs and tapestries in the hallways, many already ruined, you race back to your room.


You have survived the night unharmed, and can use your ability again on Night 5. Someone, obviously, channeled at your target.

Translating what happened there, your protection on ranagrande was not necessary to keep ranagrande alive, and is inserted for primarily for flavor purposes, something else stopped the attack, not just you, though you were able to.


Note that even on top of the flavor you were told that you could have saved his life but it wasn't necessary. Stipulation 5, 6, 7, and 10 were all met.

Dawn 5 Message – Ranagrande
Near the dawn you leave your room to slip a note under Beetnemesis's door, and return to your room. Just before reaching it, as you pass by a connecting hallway, you see a sudden brightness out of the corner of your eye. Embracing the power and whirling toward the connecting corridor you see an immense ball of flame hurtling your way. You weave air, and raise a strong a shield as you can, knowing the ball of flame might be able to penetrate event that. You can not see beyond the flames, brighter than the sun, but just as it prepares to hit your shield you see it seem to shatter, bits of flame breaking off the immense inferno right before it strikes your shield. What remains is still potent and smashes into your shield even as you weave another defense, barely getting it up as the shockwave strikes you and hurls you back. Rising quickly from the floor you hurl a ball of fire back down the corridor, hoping it will kill your attacker or at least preoccupy them.

The entire area is on fire, rugs and tapestries burning and filling the corridors with smoke. No other attack comes. You flee to your rooms as you hear the guards yelling, weaving air to clear a path through the fire, smoke, and falling bits of masonry.


You have survived the night unharmed, someone attacked you but you defeated the attack. Although you were equal to the attack, you now have reason to believe that it was interfered with by someone else as well, but you could not see the weaves that did this.


Similiarly all conditions were met

Dawn 5 Message – Darth Katie
You quietly trail Ranagrande Sedai as she returns to her rooms after running some unknown errand near the dawn. Once you're sure she is heading that way, you quickly take another corridor that intersects with the one shortly before her room. Finding good place to see the hallway without being observed, you wait. A moment later she walks into sight, and you channel, hurling a ball of fire with as much of the power as you can summon.

You can barely see her past the roaring inferno sooting towards her, but she stops and embraces the power, whirling to meet the approaching flames. You see weave a wall of air, and hope that the powerful weaving can penetrate the shield. Yet before it strikes the barrier, it seems to weaken slightly, from no action of yours or hers that you can see, fragments of flame scattering off the ball even as it strikes the shield. You see Ranagrande knocked back by the powerful blast, the shield of air crumpling under the power, but she is still moving, not on fire or consumed by the blast. A powerful fireball erupts back in your general direction, soaring down the hall in return, but you duck and flee quickly, the blast, as strong as your own should have been, obliterates the door at your end of the hallway, but you are already running as fast as you can away, not wanting to risk further battle with this equally potent foe.


Your FaL NK result was tied (ranagrande picked scissors too), the result of the tie in this case, and equal threat while you are performing no other night actions. You were not seen but the opponent knows the method of attack, both of you survive, your retain your FaL NK but may not use it on this target again.

Remaining Valid FaL NK Targets
Amys
Kronin al'Sulc
Talic
Beetnemesis

You may attempt to use your FaL NK the next night (Night 5) under the previous rules provided, minus this night's target.



So as you can see, the flavor text was not all people got, they also got very clear explanations of what happened, at least the parts they were allowed to know. I tried to make the flavor as clear as possible but made sure to include rule-mechanic specific translations. Now you drew a legitimate assumption, Ranagrande was a SK, he did not tell anyone he'd been involved in a RPS event, and that was not something you'd get to know from your insider knowledge, both ranagrande and DK knew there was a RPS event and ranagrande was not entitled to explicitly know he'd tied, though it's hinted at by 'equal to the attack' since the result was unique to a tie RPS by a roughly equally powerful channeler. HE would know and should know that Talic could not have been the attacker because Talic was weak in the power and he knew this.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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RAFO Mafia 16: In the Manor of Mad Muad - Post Game Discussion - 23/05/2010 01:25:25 AM 1178 Views
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PGM: Game Themes, Clues, Summary - 23/05/2010 01:38:29 AM 817 Views
Re: PGM: Game Themes, Clues, Summary - 23/05/2010 09:33:37 PM 762 Views
Just use a VotF Doctrine - 24/05/2010 05:46:05 AM 1075 Views
Thanks. - 24/05/2010 06:32:07 AM 720 Views
Re: Thanks. - 24/05/2010 07:05:06 AM 869 Views
It's useful too. - 24/05/2010 07:11:00 AM 748 Views
Re: It's useful too. - 24/05/2010 07:28:11 AM 731 Views
PGM: Night Action Logs (up) - 23/05/2010 02:38:01 AM 953 Views
Damn. We were doing pretty nice there. - 23/05/2010 01:36:58 AM 876 Views
Yeah it was close *NM* - 23/05/2010 01:40:47 AM 511 Views
You certainly blindsided me! - 23/05/2010 01:50:25 AM 823 Views
So did I - 23/05/2010 02:11:10 AM 888 Views
Crap, really? Shoulda killed beet! - 23/05/2010 03:30:40 AM 814 Views
I knew I should have listened to my instincts! - 23/05/2010 01:53:50 AM 781 Views
Yes, I was. - 23/05/2010 03:37:43 AM 872 Views
Yes he did... - 23/05/2010 01:44:28 PM 666 Views
Great game! - 23/05/2010 01:42:19 AM 762 Views
Re: Great game! - 23/05/2010 03:20:29 AM 721 Views
This was in my opinion definitely the best game thus far! *NM* - 23/05/2010 03:21:30 AM 485 Views
Dito - 23/05/2010 01:56:58 PM 690 Views
Sheesh. Awesome game, guys. And well done, Isaac - 23/05/2010 01:57:04 AM 826 Views
The second explosion - 23/05/2010 02:14:35 AM 711 Views
For the explanation, read the Dawn 5 message that I received - 23/05/2010 08:46:05 AM 857 Views
How'd you guess it was Kronin? *NM* - 23/05/2010 09:48:23 AM 654 Views
Because neither you nor rana would have killed me - 23/05/2010 11:05:13 PM 753 Views
I was the one outside WF's balcony - 23/05/2010 01:47:12 PM 838 Views
I'd been wondering... - 23/05/2010 04:31:02 AM 788 Views
Yeppers - 23/05/2010 04:49:33 AM 820 Views
I also imagine there was a potential for friction between BlackAdder and Ranagrande. - 23/05/2010 05:20:17 AM 697 Views
Yep, and your first character and Gher - 23/05/2010 05:26:47 AM 726 Views
Ignore this, its in the wrong spot. *NM* - 23/05/2010 11:11:52 PM 443 Views
The unopposed champion for "Longest RAFO Post Ever" - 23/05/2010 04:45:27 AM 736 Views
Gotta say I was really pissed at myself - 23/05/2010 04:58:12 AM 787 Views
Hey, I'm pretty proud of myself for my use of Science! - 23/05/2010 05:22:04 AM 675 Views
Even with your immense failure.... - 23/05/2010 05:47:22 AM 795 Views
I think we probably still would have won anyway - 23/05/2010 06:09:54 AM 807 Views
Hm. - 23/05/2010 06:18:38 AM 801 Views
To Evil! - 23/05/2010 11:15:08 PM 757 Views
I really regret not bussing you. - 23/05/2010 11:14:07 PM 662 Views
I was pretty proud of that list - 24/05/2010 06:51:10 AM 673 Views
So who's running the next one? - 23/05/2010 06:49:08 AM 659 Views
kylia skydancer is *NM* - 23/05/2010 10:13:49 AM 403 Views
I thought her game was going to be in-character? - 23/05/2010 12:10:26 PM 662 Views
and? - 23/05/2010 12:38:52 PM 715 Views
Nah, there aren't a whole lot of people for Divya's - 23/05/2010 02:02:01 PM 713 Views
I agree. *NM* - 23/05/2010 04:19:07 PM 392 Views
Also Agreed *NM* - 23/05/2010 04:35:18 PM 418 Views
Alright, so whoever was next in line, open up a Sign-up. - 23/05/2010 05:16:52 PM 642 Views
Fox or ranagrande - 23/05/2010 06:00:00 PM 708 Views
Yeah, it will be ranagrande to mod - 23/05/2010 06:07:47 PM 699 Views
So, we're going to have two at the same time? - 23/05/2010 07:23:25 PM 722 Views
Possibly - 23/05/2010 07:42:24 PM 774 Views
OK, I'll try - 23/05/2010 08:04:07 PM 632 Views
- 25/05/2010 06:17:16 AM 848 Views
Intimidated? *NM* - 25/05/2010 04:56:51 AM 518 Views
You are I think - 23/05/2010 06:09:16 PM 655 Views
Also, what would have happened if I outright claimed to be a male channeler? - 23/05/2010 09:09:28 AM 700 Views
It became a bit easier to lynch you - 23/05/2010 10:35:33 AM 733 Views
So Yuna, can you NOW explaine what went wrong with your flavor claim? - 23/05/2010 01:53:24 PM 692 Views
The number of Lightsiders who lied or allowed others to lie this game is staggering. *NM* - 23/05/2010 06:44:45 PM 443 Views
I agree - 23/05/2010 06:47:46 PM 736 Views
I lied by omission, but I couldn't see any additional benefit to claiming doc *NM* - 23/05/2010 10:58:05 PM 457 Views
You claimed that Ranagrande had to be bulletproof because nobody protected him. *NM* - 24/05/2010 04:44:48 AM 457 Views
Well yes, but it was because I knew my protection wasn't the reason he survived. - 24/05/2010 05:30:03 AM 663 Views
Your message indicates it wasn't the sole reason he survived... - 24/05/2010 06:40:29 AM 627 Views
I think that's a good question for Isaac - 24/05/2010 07:18:31 AM 664 Views
Re: I think that's a good question for Isaac - 24/05/2010 08:13:24 AM 966 Views
Oh, okay, your conclusion was perfectly valid then. - 24/05/2010 07:12:57 PM 879 Views
Even I didn't lie. It's weird. *NM* - 24/05/2010 07:05:55 AM 391 Views
We really need to lynch all liars. - 24/05/2010 01:20:56 PM 802 Views
Re: We really need to lynch all liars. - 25/05/2010 04:19:51 AM 648 Views
Then they shouldn't roleclaim at all. - 25/05/2010 04:27:39 AM 882 Views
Sadly, silence can then be assumed as an assention to guilt (i.e., "I'm a doc/cop" ). - 25/05/2010 05:21:04 AM 754 Views
Well, I pretty much never roleclaim, and I get around fine . *NM* - 25/05/2010 05:24:19 AM 384 Views
Re: Then they shouldn't roleclaim at all. - 25/05/2010 05:24:54 AM 773 Views
Yep. - 25/05/2010 05:33:16 AM 726 Views
Re: Yep. - 25/05/2010 06:38:10 AM 753 Views
No, lying is almost always antitown. - 25/05/2010 06:47:29 AM 717 Views
Agreed. The lie is actually helping in that case. - 25/05/2010 08:09:24 AM 982 Views
my reason for the nth time - 23/05/2010 06:54:27 PM 790 Views
By the way DF's, what made me so good looking target that I got killed on night 2? *NM* - 23/05/2010 04:25:38 PM 355 Views
The DFs didn't kill you as a group - 23/05/2010 04:41:09 PM 682 Views
That was it. - 23/05/2010 05:15:51 PM 665 Views
I thought you were going to add 'decapitator' to your signature after the game *NM* - 23/05/2010 07:28:02 PM 416 Views
I think he should. It would be great way to indicate notable succes in such a risky business! *NM* - 23/05/2010 07:38:26 PM 372 Views
Yes, please do that, Kronin. It would be AWESOME. - 23/05/2010 11:58:11 PM 602 Views
'Tis DONE *NM* - 24/05/2010 12:09:55 AM 419 Views
Think how much better Planeteers would have been... *NM* - 24/05/2010 06:59:06 AM 460 Views
Makes sense. *NM* - 23/05/2010 07:37:33 PM 365 Views
Q for Gher - 23/05/2010 06:57:33 PM 657 Views
Well... - 23/05/2010 09:56:23 PM 828 Views
We didn't need to go after her. - 24/05/2010 04:08:04 AM 666 Views
Well yeah, but I didn't know that. *NM* - 25/05/2010 05:50:05 AM 415 Views
Yeah, we had this whole contingency plan figured out - 24/05/2010 07:02:11 AM 726 Views
I thought - 24/05/2010 07:29:40 AM 804 Views
The Unofficial Mod Criteria and Waiting List (Table) - 23/05/2010 07:01:30 PM 1035 Views
I've got an idea for a game when my time comes, and I'll be ripping off your style from this game - 23/05/2010 09:42:13 PM 681 Views
Please! I want to play Shadows of Amador! - 23/05/2010 11:54:59 PM 708 Views
Rip away - 24/05/2010 06:10:42 AM 741 Views
Well, given the position you were all in when I left... - 24/05/2010 06:35:18 AM 731 Views
Re: Well, given the position you were all in when I left... - 24/05/2010 07:10:46 AM 785 Views
Yeah, but Kronin is one of the players who is still interested . - 24/05/2010 07:16:01 AM 681 Views
If Napoleon isn't still in... - 24/05/2010 03:38:57 PM 623 Views
I'm still interested! - 24/05/2010 01:16:26 PM 763 Views
I'd like to add myself to the back of the queue, actually. - 23/05/2010 11:53:18 PM 664 Views
Re: The Unofficial Mod Criteria and Waiting List - 24/05/2010 03:34:50 AM 651 Views
Re: The Unofficial Mod Criteria and Waiting List - 24/05/2010 06:13:43 AM 809 Views
Just for clarification... - 24/05/2010 07:05:28 AM 728 Views
Re: Just for clarification... - 24/05/2010 07:08:48 AM 691 Views
Great game. - 23/05/2010 09:58:18 PM 630 Views
Thank-you to All and Especially Isaac. - 24/05/2010 09:07:35 PM 641 Views
Re: Thank-you to All and Especially Isaac. - 24/05/2010 10:19:08 PM 795 Views
RP Mafia game getting way this friday btw. - 25/05/2010 05:03:47 AM 600 Views

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