Also, I was pretty sure I'd die again before I lost my powers. One day, you must explain to me how you manage to never be night killed. I don't think there's been a game where I was a Darkfriend and you were a Lightsider, but I certainly wouldn't let you live indefinitely.
Just threaten them on day 1, point out how likely you are to be the candidate for night 1 doccing and watching. Or go the full route, we both declare it's irritating to know that if DF, we're absurdly likely to be copped on the first night, and if town we're likely to be NK'd, and it's a bit of a funbreaker and bad sportsmanship. The only way around it is to point out that both of us will be in future games and will have to view anyone who targets us basically on the grounds of 'simply a big threat as a player regardless of role' as a potential threat on those grounds and they will be far more likely to be lynched or NK'd. And that having said that, even if we don't kill said person they are a great deal more likely to be killed by someone seeking to cast suspicion on us.
"If anyone targets me for copping or NK on night 1 I will kill them at my first available opportunity in the future, and having said that I will definitely do this it massively raises the odds someone will kill you other than me because they can push suspicion on to me, nor do I have to fear your death being laid at my feet is auto-death, because it is actually more likely, by the same reasoning you used to target me on night 1, that I am a major threat in of myself, that someone killed you just to frame me, so I can risk a possible lynch." Says FT or Isaac.
"But that's not fair, you're holding a previous game against me, this would be a new game." Says Victim-of-the-Future.
"To the contrary, it is the very reason for your action, you have targeted me on the basis of previous games." Says FTI
"But it makes strategic sense, I didn't have any clear targets and you're potentially very dangerous." Says VotF.
"I agree, but by that same logic it makes sense for me to say that I will reply in kind, and to do so to show it is not a bluff, may I refer you to the 'Mutually Assured Destruction' and 'No First Use' nuclear strategies. It makes good strategic sense to target me on night 1 when there are no clear candidates, I know it's not personal, if anything it is a sign of respect, but I am a strategist, if someone has a good strategy I must either concede defeat and realize I will rarely survive the first night and the game becomes boring, or I must make this good strategy a bad one, so people do not wish to pursue it. So I must threaten to retaliate and I must make it abundantly clear it is not a bluff, it then becomes a bad strategy."
VotF, "Makes sense, by why not only Night 1 NKs, why copping too?"
"Simple, if not stopped it is a threat to me, and not just when I'm a DF, knowing that I will be copped on night 1 means I die almost assuredly any time I'm a DF, but it also means that when not a DF the DFs have a greater reason to kill me on future nights because I am likely to have been copped and have probtown status. After all, who if they copped me guilty would not almost immediately proclaim it? Therefore I must ensure that targeting me for any night 1 action that results in my death or my alignment being defined is a hostile act. Anyone complicit in that strategy must be killed at the soonest convenient chance to prove it is not a bluff or killing/copping me remains a good strategy, my only logical strategy is to make it clear that it is not a good strategy." Says FTI
"But then we can never target you, that's unfair!" Says VotF.
"Not all, you can never target me when the obvious primary motivator and reason was that you see me, the player, not me, the current character, as a great threat. It will be hard for me to ever view any early night action as anything but a qualifier, I suggest you keep a clear NB record of why you targeted me for this-game specific reasons if you choose to do so, even if I was selected randomly so that you can prove it wasn't 'me the player' that was the target. That way I can say you are not my VotF without having anyone doubt that the policy is still in place when you don't die." Says FTI
"What if other players object to this policy?" Says VotF
"Unlikely, they too can see the logic of it, and must understand that if I am targeted for night actions a disproportionate percent of the time I am under a heavy handicap for play and may eventually have to quit, I tend to be viewed as keeping the game interesting, so they are unlikely to take issue with either the logic of the VotF Doctrine nor ethics of it, there too, they will be glad to see the doc freed up from the expectation of having to protect me and the knowledge that if I die their RC as a protective role will be viewed with doubt as either lying or fairly poor tactician, hence a good kill or a small loss if telling the truth. By doing this, I actually improve gameplay, because we remove a predictable pattern of 'Everyone target me on Night 1', and few will argue the point even if they disagree since they'd realize that just saying they don't accept the reasoning would have to make me view them as a greater threat." Says FTI
"Wow, FTI, that makes a lot of sense, how'd you think it up?." Say no-longer-VotF.
"Hey, the best defense is a good offense, and I wouldn't have to need a VotF Doctrine if I weren't a good strategist, would I?" Says FTI
So, basically, if you want to avoid this constant cycle of you and me getting whacked, copped, or lynched on general principle you just say something along these lines before a game starts... like this I suspect a lot of people have guessed I might have such a policy to begin with, due to the insanely high rate of casualties of those who have targeted me for lynch or NK, IIRC no one has survived a game they voted for me (even a lot of the people who jokingly voted for me on day 1) or died early in a game after trying for a NK on me in the previous one, though that was not usually my reasoning at the time.
Anyway I formalize this Doctrine before returning to play and offer it to you for use to since you actually get it worse than me and games are less interesting for me when you're not in them. Besides, nobody else besides us currently is a night action magnet.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
RAFO Mafia 16: In the Manor of Mad Muad - Post Game Discussion
23/05/2010 01:25:25 AM
- 1099 Views
PGM: Role Assignments (up)
23/05/2010 01:29:00 AM
- 598 Views
PGM: Game Themes, Clues, Summary
23/05/2010 01:38:29 AM
- 730 Views
Re: PGM: Game Themes, Clues, Summary
23/05/2010 09:33:37 PM
- 691 Views
Just use a VotF Doctrine
24/05/2010 05:46:05 AM
- 997 Views
Thanks.
24/05/2010 06:32:07 AM
- 651 Views
Re: Thanks.
24/05/2010 07:05:06 AM
- 790 Views
It's useful too.
24/05/2010 07:11:00 AM
- 677 Views
Re: It's useful too.
24/05/2010 07:28:11 AM
- 654 Views
It's also why I jumped at the opportunity of things like the Sheriff or Chair bonus roles.
24/05/2010 07:42:34 AM
- 730 Views
Damn. We were doing pretty nice there.
23/05/2010 01:36:58 AM
- 794 Views
You certainly blindsided me!
23/05/2010 01:50:25 AM
- 745 Views
I knew I should have listened to my instincts!
23/05/2010 01:53:50 AM
- 709 Views
What was amusing is that you almost NK'd white flame that one night
23/05/2010 02:29:45 AM
- 633 Views
Sheesh. Awesome game, guys. And well done, Isaac
23/05/2010 01:57:04 AM
- 744 Views
For the explanation, read the Dawn 5 message that I received
23/05/2010 08:46:05 AM
- 774 Views
Oh yeah. Fox and Ravens, care to take a guess at who I suspected from Night 1?
23/05/2010 03:04:53 AM
- 712 Views
I'd been wondering...
23/05/2010 04:31:02 AM
- 711 Views
Yeppers
23/05/2010 04:49:33 AM
- 744 Views
I also imagine there was a potential for friction between BlackAdder and Ranagrande.
23/05/2010 05:20:17 AM
- 651 Views
Gotta say I was really pissed at myself
23/05/2010 04:58:12 AM
- 715 Views
Even with your immense failure....
23/05/2010 05:47:22 AM
- 712 Views
So who's running the next one?
23/05/2010 06:49:08 AM
- 588 Views
kylia skydancer is *NM*
23/05/2010 10:13:49 AM
- 357 Views
I thought her game was going to be in-character?
23/05/2010 12:10:26 PM
- 591 Views
and?
23/05/2010 12:38:52 PM
- 648 Views
Nah, there aren't a whole lot of people for Divya's
23/05/2010 02:02:01 PM
- 638 Views
Also Agreed *NM*
23/05/2010 04:35:18 PM
- 387 Views
Alright, so whoever was next in line, open up a Sign-up.
23/05/2010 05:16:52 PM
- 594 Views
Fox or ranagrande
23/05/2010 06:00:00 PM
- 628 Views
Yeah, it will be ranagrande to mod
23/05/2010 06:07:47 PM
- 628 Views
So, we're going to have two at the same time?
23/05/2010 07:23:25 PM
- 644 Views
Also, what would have happened if I outright claimed to be a male channeler?
23/05/2010 09:09:28 AM
- 628 Views
So Yuna, can you NOW explaine what went wrong with your flavor claim?
23/05/2010 01:53:24 PM
- 622 Views
The number of Lightsiders who lied or allowed others to lie this game is staggering. *NM*
23/05/2010 06:44:45 PM
- 414 Views
I lied by omission, but I couldn't see any additional benefit to claiming doc *NM*
23/05/2010 10:58:05 PM
- 421 Views
You claimed that Ranagrande had to be bulletproof because nobody protected him. *NM*
24/05/2010 04:44:48 AM
- 406 Views
Well yes, but it was because I knew my protection wasn't the reason he survived.
24/05/2010 05:30:03 AM
- 586 Views
In fact, you could make a case that I am obligated to share that info with the rest of the town.
24/05/2010 05:37:30 AM
- 625 Views
Your message indicates it wasn't the sole reason he survived...
24/05/2010 06:40:29 AM
- 558 Views
I think that's a good question for Isaac
24/05/2010 07:18:31 AM
- 596 Views
Even I didn't lie. It's weird. *NM*
24/05/2010 07:05:55 AM
- 350 Views
We really need to lynch all liars.
24/05/2010 01:20:56 PM
- 720 Views
Re: We really need to lynch all liars.
25/05/2010 04:19:51 AM
- 571 Views
Then they shouldn't roleclaim at all.
25/05/2010 04:27:39 AM
- 811 Views
Sadly, silence can then be assumed as an assention to guilt (i.e., "I'm a doc/cop" ).
25/05/2010 05:21:04 AM
- 687 Views
Well, I pretty much never roleclaim, and I get around fine . *NM*
25/05/2010 05:24:19 AM
- 351 Views
Re: Then they shouldn't roleclaim at all.
25/05/2010 05:24:54 AM
- 699 Views
By the way DF's, what made me so good looking target that I got killed on night 2? *NM*
23/05/2010 04:25:38 PM
- 322 Views
The DFs didn't kill you as a group
23/05/2010 04:41:09 PM
- 606 Views
That was it.
23/05/2010 05:15:51 PM
- 589 Views
I thought you were going to add 'decapitator' to your signature after the game *NM*
23/05/2010 07:28:02 PM
- 384 Views
I think he should. It would be great way to indicate notable succes in such a risky business! *NM*
23/05/2010 07:38:26 PM
- 345 Views
Q for Gher
23/05/2010 06:57:33 PM
- 576 Views
Well...
23/05/2010 09:56:23 PM
- 756 Views
The Unofficial Mod Criteria and Waiting List (Table)
23/05/2010 07:01:30 PM
- 963 Views
I've got an idea for a game when my time comes, and I'll be ripping off your style from this game
23/05/2010 09:42:13 PM
- 603 Views
Rip away
24/05/2010 06:10:42 AM
- 674 Views
Well, given the position you were all in when I left...
24/05/2010 06:35:18 AM
- 657 Views
Re: Well, given the position you were all in when I left...
24/05/2010 07:10:46 AM
- 707 Views
Great game.
23/05/2010 09:58:18 PM
- 560 Views
Chair was great- and it's good to know that Lunch happens when Chair is elected
24/05/2010 07:07:21 AM
- 547 Views
Great game. Even though I was only alive for one day and one night.
24/05/2010 07:30:05 AM
- 657 Views
What? You had wonderful position as Lord Yunalescas most trusted advisor! *NM*
24/05/2010 07:24:38 PM
- 336 Views