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Re: Hm. It doesn't seem like we disagree that much on the 'true partnerships' then. - Edit 2

Before modification by Vodalus at 10/12/2024 11:03:16 PM


View original postI guess I do see things mostly from an economic perspective, yes. Even on the biggest military issue of all, Taiwan, I get the impression that China is deterred from invading as much or more by the extreme economic damage to the entire world but most of all to themselves which would result from an invasion, than by the actual military deterrence of the US and Taiwan itself.

And Xi wisely let Putin go first to test the waters of irredentism, enabling him to gauge the West’s response. China was supposed to woo Taiwan into a confederacy, a path they were on up until maybe 15 years ago, but the approach nowadays seems to be nothing more sophisticated than knocking Taiwan on the head and dragging her back to a cave to rape her.


View original postRegarding the US goal, that makes more sense than what Trump's goal seems to be and certainly that requires a more multilateral approach, as otherwise the US contributions would just be replaced by those from other countries.

Yeah, I’m fine with putting tariffs on China - all for it, really - but there’s a much better way of doing it than Trump’s plan. Changing the de minimus rules should be done as well. I will say Trump does have a knack for identifying or highlighting certain issues. I just happen to find most of his methods or tactics to deal with said problems counterproductive in the long run. And the inflammatory rhetoric and gratuitous insults don’t help at all. That’s mostly in regard to his foreign relations and trade policies. I kind of gave up on domestic issues a long time ago.


View original postOh absolutely, they're investing all over the place and making many governments indebted to them, but as I said, those are purely transactional relationships without much interest in the partner country's interests. The US and EU aren't exactly angels in their relationships with developing countries either, but they're a lot more accommodating than China.

It cares about Chinese interests, not about Pakistani ones, that's what I said. Nor does it care much about making itself popular among Pakistani citizens. In recent years, people in developing countries have sometimes been talking about how China is willing to invest in their countries without the patronizing attitude of the West, or simply more cheaply than the West - but once those investments have been done and they've spent some time watching how the debts for them cripple their government and China doesn't show the least bit of mercy, that attitude sours quickly. And I do think that things like that would also make a difference if it ever came to military conflict between the US and China and countries had to choose sides.


Hm, to the above I feel like we’re talking past one another a little bit. It seems like you’re applying or projecting a Western mindset on how things work. Or maybe it’s because I’m not. You are treating the general population of a country as the country. My take on things here is that China is working with local and often corrupt elites who are willing partners in offering up good deals to the Chinese, ones they know will fuck over their people and government, and so long as they get their cut they have no qualms about it. In really crude terms, the CCP elite are syndicate bosses, lesser CCP figures and foreign politicians in bed with the CCP are pimps. The general public, whether Chinese or foreign, are simply whores. Whores need only be obedient and productive. That’s not an attitude I hold or condone, mind. It’s merely descriptive. The point being China can get other countries to go along and do things not in their best interest by using leverage and influence. In the Chinese way of thinking, China isn’t just the center of civilization, it’s also the apex of civilization. They have vassals, and vassals should aim to please.


View original postSo if China is really trying to build an alliance, they're really going to need to change their attitude and start working on making friends, rather than just making countries indebted to them. After all, if war breaks out and your would-be allies are mostly tied to you for no better reason than because they owe you money, it gives them all the more reason to defect to the other side and try to get out of repaying the debts...

China is not above demagoguery. It’s using grievance politics to foment anti-Western sentiment pretty much everywhere it invests and in the groupings and forums I listed earlier. It’s gained a fair amount of traction. Recent world events, i.e. Gaza, make it that much easier spread. A lot of this is disseminated in Chinese journalism and opinion articles which are made free to local media in Global South countries.


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