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We've been over this - some of this is true, some is, at a minimum, not proven that I ever saw. Legolas Send a noteboard - 05/12/2024 11:18:24 PM

View original postThe thing is that Joe knows Hunter got a job with Burisma so that Burisma could have leverage with Joe. Joe knows it was bribery. Joe got money as part of the bribery. He bragged about contravening Congressional aid until and unless Ukraine fired the prosecutor investigating Burisma. The quid pro quo is already admitted by Biden. If he weren't old and losing his mind, I think Trump's DOJ would go after him for that.

Hunter's job for Burisma was shady as fuck, no doubt about that - and it was far from the first time that Hunter or his uncle Jim abused their father/brother's name to get a lucrative job or business opportunity.

However:

1) As I mentioned before, while Joe did brag about getting the top prosecutor in Ukraine at the time fired, the reality was that Shokin was fired after joint pressure from the US, the EU and the IMF - with all of them arguing that he was blatantly failing to investigate corruption, both the pre-existing investigation into Burisma and other ones. In the end the Ukrainian parliament voted to fire him after they additionally saw reason to believe he was personally corrupt himself - though that was only three months after Biden's visit so his version of the story seems rather embellished. In other words, the international community pushed to have him fired primarily for the benefit of Ukraine itself and with the full expectation that whoever replaced him would achieve more in terms of the Burisma investigation (as indeed they did - Burisma ended up paying millions of dollars to the Ukrainian government to settle the charges). You need some pretty crazy conspiracy theories to spin that into 'he was fired by Joe Biden because he was investigating Burisma/Hunter'.
2) When you say 'bribery' do you just refer to the salary Burisma paid Hunter? If you mean something beyond that, or that Hunter actually achieved anything illegal or illegitimate for Burisma in exchange for said salary, I haven't seen any proof of that - Shokin getting fired doesn't count obviously, considering the above.
3) Joe getting money - haven't seen any proof of that either.


See also this article from December 2015, at the time of Joe Biden's visit, rightly pointing out that Hunter's position at Burisma was rather undermining his father's / the USA's credibility in criticizing corruption in Ukraine. I'd go further and argue that the Obama administration should have kept Joe Biden away from anything to do with Ukraine as soon as his son got that seat on Burisma's board. But just because they didn't, still doesn't automatically mean that either Biden actually did anything illegal. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/world/europe/corruption-ukraine-joe-biden-son-hunter-biden-ties.html

View original postThe Dems said that Trump should be impeached because he (1) improperly withheld Congressional aid to Ukraine in exchange for information on Burisma, (2) the accusations were baseless, and (3) it was done for political reasons.

View original postIf (1) were improper, then Biden himself should have been impeached, as well as countless Presidents who have used executive power to slow or halt Congressional funds to foreign countries as part of legitimate foreign policy.

'As part of legitimate foreign policy' - as opposed to 'as part of oppo research for the president's next political campaign'. Although really, if you read the released transcript of that famous call, it's more like Trump doing his usual rambling on with nonsensical word salad vaguely inspired by some rumours he heard left and right. Based purely on that transcript, one would say he deserved impeachment more for rank incompetence and being a national embarrassment than for actual corrupt intent. Though on that note, I admit Biden's self-aggrandizing claims about getting Shokin fired back in 2015 were an embarrassment to his office as well.


View original postAnd that gets us to the heart of this: part (2). Trump was impeached for investigating real corruption on the part of the Bidens. I don't care who else might be corrupt and the "whataboutism" that flows from that. The fact is that it's now been fairly convincingly proven that the Biden family was a corrupt bribes for action enterprise. Joe pardoning Hunter after saying he wouldn't is just the final nail in the coffin of Biden's reputation.

Once again, what proof? Moreover, the basic (and admittedly suspicious-looking) facts regarding Hunter-Burisma-Shokin's firing, which Trump alluded to in his call, were common knowledge long before day one of Trump's presidency - his DoJ had had 2.5 years by the time of this call to find proof and charge either or both Bidens if they could prove any crime was committed, which they didn't. But where US law enforcement was unable to find anything, somehow we're supposed to believe that Zelensky and the weak, often corrupt authorities of Ukraine could? That US law enforcement might've needed assistance of some sort from Ukraine, sure, but in the end if we're talking about Joe Biden supposedly having received a bribe, there's gotta be a money trail in the US as well, same thing for any illegitimate/illegal advantages obtained for Burisma by either Biden. Most of the investigation would always have had to come from US law enforcement agencies.

If Trump had no better ideas than to make some vague requests of Zelensky instead, it's presumably because there was a lot of smoke but no actual fire, which he either knew or should have known if he hadn't been too lazy to bother reading/studying up on anything.

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No Fucks Left to Give Joe tosses Hunter a blanket pardon - 02/12/2024 09:23:33 PM 299 Views
I think if he hadn't said he wouldn't pardon his son, then this would be a non-issue. - 03/12/2024 12:53:15 PM 41 Views
I don't agree with that - it would've been a serious issue still. - 03/12/2024 05:56:18 PM 46 Views
How about this? - 04/12/2024 03:43:52 AM 42 Views
Fully agree. *NM* - 04/12/2024 06:40:15 AM 10 Views
Trump was already going to pardon all the J6 defendants, though. - 04/12/2024 07:18:56 AM 40 Views
Re: Trump was already going to pardon all the J6 defendants, though. - 04/12/2024 02:07:41 PM 38 Views
Ugh, I hate this 'they're all the same' rhetoric. - 04/12/2024 09:22:38 PM 34 Views
I respectfully disagree. - 04/12/2024 11:09:07 PM 36 Views
Seems like we're kind of talking past each other here. - 05/12/2024 11:39:02 PM 31 Views
Trump had quite a few successes in his first term - 06/12/2024 02:45:32 PM 35 Views
You mean his administration and Congress had those successes. - 06/12/2024 10:12:25 PM 43 Views
No, I mean him. *NM* - 07/12/2024 12:38:27 AM 11 Views
Okay, then I guess we're not debating it, as you like. *NM* - 07/12/2024 08:54:03 AM 13 Views
The achievements of the administration are attributed to the President. - 08/12/2024 10:50:43 AM 34 Views
Some people also think the earth is flat. - 08/12/2024 06:29:37 PM 31 Views
Le sigh - 08/12/2024 09:03:01 PM 32 Views
Make up your mind already. - 08/12/2024 10:30:11 PM 30 Views
I mostly agree, with one giant caveat - 05/12/2024 02:56:02 PM 43 Views
Re: I mostly agree, with one giant caveat - 05/12/2024 03:49:00 PM 39 Views
I take a bit of umbrage at that assignment personally - 06/12/2024 12:37:40 AM 38 Views
We've been over this - some of this is true, some is, at a minimum, not proven that I ever saw. - 05/12/2024 11:18:24 PM 36 Views
I know it was factually true - 06/12/2024 12:46:44 AM 41 Views
Sounds like you need to become a whistleblower and go talk to the FBI yourself, then? - 06/12/2024 11:37:00 AM 36 Views
Typically, whistle blower and attorney client privilege are not viewed as compatible. - 06/12/2024 03:57:12 PM 37 Views
I have a clearance - 06/12/2024 05:01:07 PM 39 Views
Re: I have a clearance - 06/12/2024 08:08:50 PM 40 Views
Secret evidence doesn't have to be believed - 07/12/2024 09:31:10 PM 38 Views
Re: Secret evidence doesn't have to be believed - 08/12/2024 03:46:54 PM 33 Views
Seriously? - 06/12/2024 10:28:07 PM 35 Views
Re: Seriously? - 06/12/2024 11:33:59 PM 34 Views
Did you even read that earlier post? - 07/12/2024 08:53:15 AM 37 Views
I can't believe I'm siding with Tom here - 07/12/2024 01:50:15 AM 36 Views
I guess you kinda have to with your profession. - 07/12/2024 07:46:01 PM 33 Views
Re: I guess you kinda have to with your profession. - 07/12/2024 08:07:28 PM 38 Views
See my other reply above then. *NM* - 07/12/2024 09:43:37 PM 11 Views
You're CLEARLY a Harris plant - 06/12/2024 01:07:07 AM 38 Views
Hah, you got me! - 06/12/2024 11:49:19 AM 35 Views
I'd be hesitant to link Biden with the Democrats anymore - 06/12/2024 01:24:44 AM 38 Views
Re: I'd be hesitant to link Biden with the Democrats anymore - 06/12/2024 01:47:08 AM 34 Views

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