You missed the second part of the sentence - 'that changing from one to the other is impossible on general principle'. As you also mention just below - even if somehow medical science would evolve much further still, you'd still say, no, a man will always be a man. Because of philosophical dogma, not because of biology.
You keep saying "philosophical", but genetics aren't a philosophy. If you have a person with XY biology, they are male. If you implant a uterus into them, they are an XY male with a Frankenuterus.
If medical science gets to the point of actually changing DNA, and an XY male can actually become an XX female, I would probably be willing to change my position.
But giving a man a uterus does not make him a woman.
We aren't talking about intersex individuals, though, we're talking about "transgender" individuals. I've no qualms with the LGBIA group; they aren't sterilizing and mutilating children.
You mean basic philosophical reality. If science would reach the point that a trans woman had a fully functional uterus and female genitals, it wouldn't make any biological sense to keep saying 'no, but hang on, she's still a man!'. She might have been a man originally, but then every butterfly was also once a caterpillar, it's still a butterfly now.
No, I mean biological reality. If science could reach the point that a trans woman had a fully functional uterus and female genitals, he's still be a man, with a fully functional frankenuterus and frankengenitals.
Change the actual underlying biological reality, and the story changes. But we are not there. We are not even close.
And for those who are willing to extend that "good"will, and lie to those who harm themselves, that's entirely their prerogative. Just as it is mine to not play along with make-believe.
I will not go into my depression bona fides, but suffice to say I fully understand confusion, and I fully understand feeling like you have no choice. But feeling that you have no choice IS IN NO WAY the same thing as actually having no choice.
Let's go back to the cancer situation; ff they do not do this operation, she will almost certainly die. She feels that she has no choice, and she is correct. Her choice is binary; do this or do not, live or die.
The "trans" girl, however, is in a different situation; she feels that she has no choice. If she does not do this, she will either have to live her life as the "wrong" gender, or kill herself. Her choice is not binary, because there is the third option; learn to love yourself for who you are, not who you want to be.
I understand anguish. But the way through anguish is to steel yourself and grow, not to run away from reality and play "god" by harming yourself.
You know very well why - you don't agree with it obviously, but you know it.
Because they want to be the other sex. Yet, the actual reality is what it is; they're not.
And they try to fix crooked teeth as well, though your talk about stopping teething entirely remains as silly a comparison as ever.
As silly as ever, huh.
"Our child's identity is their own, so we're going to prevent their natural development until they can tell us what they want!"
That statement can apply equally to teething and puberty. You keep saying it's a "silly" comparison, but your arguments don't actually touch the underlying fact that it's the same thing. It's different to you because you see an inherent difference in childhood development, and teenage development. To those who aren't in the Transcult, the fact is that they're both just human development. Now, if an XY male grew a uterus and started having a period, and they wanted it removed? That is a corrective procedure. But an XY male wanting their testicles removed? What?
That's in no way comparable to braces.
Or at least, that's how it looks to me.
Since you like to understand where people are coming from and you don't seem to be aware - it seemed obvious to me in the exchange with mookie, but upon rereading, it may be obvious only to those of us who already knew - I have to tell you that Ghav is in fact a trans woman, so it's rather personal for her.
Oooh, cool, so if you join the transcult, all of your shitty behavior is excused! Nice, I've seen this happen nationally but I didn't expect to see it on a tiny message board. So cool!
Sure. There's plenty of 65+ folks who have gotten that far in life without ever developing the capability to engage in meaningful, responsible relationships.
This is as far as I can agree with this paragraph. To those on the right, the whole "13 year olds can totally meaningfully consent!" thing comes across as creepy and paedophilic.
And frankly, that's much of what turns people like me off about the whole trans thing. Sorry friend, 13 year olds are not mature enough to consent to sex, and they sure as hell aren't mature enough to consent to never having actual sex cause they got their testicles removed and surgically inverted their penis when they were 14.
You hear it a lot because it's true. I'd be happy to give you any number of sources, though I suspect you don't really care to see them?
Some of their much higher rate of physical victimization may not be a direct consequence of them being transgender, what with trans people being overrepresented among groups like homeless teenagers or sex workers who are more likely to face violence because of their living conditions / jobs - but then the reason for them being overrepresented in those groups is them being cast out by transphobic families or social circles, so indirectly their being trans is still the reason.
I wonder how they fare compared to other mental health patients suffering from delusions? I wonder if they're comparable to schizophrenics?
I wonder if they're "indirectly" being harmed because of their insanity, not because of their "gender", and since, because they've covered themselves in the trans flag, it's reported as being "trans hate"?
I wonder if even asking that question makes me "transphobic"?
Just kidding, I know I'm not allowed to question the dogma.
That's the fucking truth. Far better to fight over shit with no solution than to fix the actual hard problems.
For someone complaining about others insulting rather than discussing, your way of discussion is pretty insulting, I have to say... was it really so hard to make this comparison without throwing in those little digs?
I calls 'em like I sees 'em, and we were comparing unicorns, were we not? Supposedly, most of the trans people do suffer from body dysmorphia; I'm not questioning that group in this comparison. I'm pointing to the unicorn who doesn't suffer from body dysmorphia, compared to the unicorn who has breast cancer at 17.
I was trying to make it a fair comparison.
Yes, it's so much to ask, and the reason why has been explained often enough that I won't bother repeating it again. Although I do want to stress again that I do have sympathy for parents or doctors who - in good faith - push back against a trans child's desire for transition because they think that desire is too sudden or the child isn't taking the decision seriously enough. But there is a world of difference between wanting to protect children from making a very serious mistake in their choice to transition, or taking it as dogma that transitioning is always a mistake per definition, and only the former one is an actually valid reason for postponing that transition.
And that's fine, you're entitled to your view, and good on you for not being one of the ultrawokies, like Oregon, who will kidnap kids from their parents for not allowing them to mutilate themselves.
But you're the type of person I can get along with. We don't have to agree, because we know the world's big enough for us to disagree.
And we're the minority these days.
Betwixt the trumpists and the wokists, we're in a place of conflict and hatred. And neither the wokists nor the trumpists show any desire to lessen that.
But at least the trumpists aren't mutilating children.
*NM*
*NM*
- 03/09/2023 11:22:53 PM
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