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I'll bite... Legolas Send a noteboard - 09/08/2023 06:39:46 PM

Imagine a teenager with gender dysphoria, who actually does get to choose freely:

  • puberty blockers, including their side effects, in order to make the rest of the transition later on (with or without surgery) easier
    or
  • no puberty blockers, avoiding the side effects and making a potential retransition later in life easier, but at the cost of making them miserable throughout puberty and making future stages of the transition more difficult

And sure, the second option is 'doing nothing', but doing nothing is also a choice, which has upsides and downsides too.

Your position is that if this teenager chooses the second option, of their own volition, then great; if they choose the first option, well, that shouldn't be allowed because of the downsides involved. So let's just take their choice away and only leave the second option. But that second option has downsides too, in fact worse ones at least in the short term and possibly also in the longer term, while its upsides are quite uncertain since they only apply in the event of the teenager wanting to revert to their birth gender later on.



Out of curiosity, do you think teenagers should get to make their own decisions on other difficult medical questions, like for instance in a case of advanced cancer with a choice between a final attempt at chemo which has a low chance of success but is guaranteed to make the patient's life a lot more unpleasant in the meantime, or giving up and letting the patient spend the final days/weeks of their life saying goodbye in comparative calm and comfort? That's not intended as a full analogy or anything, the choice is quite different, but it's also a case of a difficult medical choice, between 'doing something' and 'doing nothing', where you definitely want to be making an actual conscious choice and not just walking into something by default because you're too afraid, or just not allowed, to make the choice.

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“Can you imagine our reading that James Madison or Thomas Jefferson tried to overthrow the gov't?" - 03/08/2023 09:02:48 PM 748 Views
I'm curious as to your point in posting this. - 04/08/2023 03:17:48 AM 200 Views
The point is that these uneducated dumbass race-baiters dare to lecture us - 04/08/2023 05:33:36 PM 190 Views
. . . - 05/08/2023 02:14:20 PM 191 Views
You're entitled to your optimistic view - 05/08/2023 04:24:33 PM 190 Views
You only think your view is realistic because you haven't studied enough history. - 06/08/2023 04:04:34 PM 197 Views
You're entitled to your optimistic view. *NM* - 06/08/2023 09:18:39 PM 79 Views
Not only is this statistically incorrect, it's historically incorrect. - 08/08/2023 11:35:42 PM 173 Views
Sigh, I understand that it's hard to grasp these days, with our medical miracles, - 14/08/2023 05:52:01 PM 175 Views
Disease is counted as part of wartime casualties. - 14/08/2023 08:17:53 PM 173 Views
And Covid killed 1000000 Americans lol - 14/08/2023 09:49:02 PM 160 Views
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These facts would cause you to be denounced as a "putinite fascist"... - 07/08/2023 05:45:05 PM 178 Views
Well, of course it's going to pass - 07/08/2023 06:55:12 PM 190 Views
Tom, you are being far too reasonable. That doesn’t fly in 2023! *NM* - 08/08/2023 12:22:49 AM 88 Views
He is, which is why, I think, he is wrong. *NM* - 08/08/2023 10:18:32 PM 92 Views
I just can't buy that the political and academic class will give up their grip so easily. - 08/08/2023 05:49:58 PM 161 Views
Academics have been pro Marxism for over 100 years. It's nothing new. *NM* - 08/08/2023 05:59:55 PM 89 Views
Maybe. But they've never been this spiteful or spoiled before. - 09/08/2023 01:29:30 PM 149 Views
No, they only recruited students to spy for the Soviets *NM* - 14/08/2023 06:18:58 PM 81 Views
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Do you have sources for that 'far more conservative and far more religious' claim? - 09/08/2023 07:35:50 PM 178 Views
In regards to more conservative, - 09/08/2023 08:35:03 PM 185 Views
I side with Greg and Tom in this discussion. - 08/08/2023 05:57:54 PM 168 Views
I don't suppose linking medical articles is going to help too much here, but... - 08/08/2023 11:28:05 PM 187 Views
Elizabeth, you know I have a non binary grandchild. - 09/08/2023 01:22:32 AM 188 Views
Yeah, I know, I just think that the statistics are dangerous. - 09/08/2023 04:36:40 AM 170 Views
Respectfully, do you truly believe this? - 09/08/2023 05:42:31 PM 174 Views
I'll bite... - 09/08/2023 06:39:46 PM 166 Views
Thanks. <3 *NM* - 09/08/2023 08:27:13 PM 84 Views
Your thoughts - 11/08/2023 04:14:37 PM 157 Views
Yes, that's true. - 11/08/2023 06:11:49 PM 167 Views
Re: Yes, that's true. - 12/08/2023 04:25:28 PM 155 Views
This is not bait, I am legitimately trying to understand. And if I understand correctly... - 11/08/2023 05:17:02 PM 163 Views
As I said, it wasn't intended as perfect analogy - it's about how much say should children have. - 11/08/2023 06:44:33 PM 172 Views
No, seriously, only the last one was intended as parody. And I'd like an explanation. - 14/08/2023 05:43:37 PM 158 Views
There aren't a lot of people committing suicide over their teeth coming in. - 14/08/2023 08:21:29 PM 167 Views
Indeed. - 14/08/2023 09:50:53 PM 153 Views
Re: No, seriously, only the last one was intended as parody. And I'd like an explanation. - 15/08/2023 04:14:57 PM 179 Views
See, you're willing to discuss, instead of insult. Others on this board might take note. - 17/08/2023 05:18:39 PM 164 Views
Yeah, well, I have the luxury of an outsider's position... - 23/08/2023 11:47:24 PM 170 Views
Nobody is an outsider when reality is being attacked. - 25/08/2023 05:40:43 PM 157 Views
Fun facts - 26/08/2023 06:22:57 AM 193 Views
Not really "fun" so much as "a sad reality of biology", but yes. - 27/08/2023 09:42:14 PM 168 Views
Imagine if you had the same attitude towards trans people. - 28/08/2023 12:02:34 AM 149 Views
I may be no endocrinologist, but I at least understand simple biology. XY =/= XX =/= XXY - 28/08/2023 05:40:14 PM 150 Views
Simple is definitely true. Shame you never learned biology past what you were taught in high school. - 28/08/2023 11:21:38 PM 161 Views
Right, cause we're "butterflies" - 29/08/2023 04:57:20 AM 153 Views
I go to mass more than you. *NM* - 29/08/2023 09:58:09 AM 89 Views
Wow, really? And you still mutilated your body and told God that He was wrong about you? - 31/08/2023 05:44:32 PM 157 Views
I must say, - 31/08/2023 07:04:47 PM 152 Views
Love is being true. Love is being honest. Love is God. - 31/08/2023 07:52:59 PM 146 Views
Really went off the deep end there huh... - 31/08/2023 10:39:02 PM 143 Views
At least my beliefs can't be disproven by a $40 test at Wal-Mart. - 02/09/2023 03:40:43 PM 140 Views
It's ok. Many of us are quite sad for you too. - 29/08/2023 11:10:32 AM 144 Views
I couldn't care less what unbelievers think. You'll meet the Truth, one day. - 31/08/2023 05:45:31 PM 140 Views
No such thing as damnation, but thanks. - 31/08/2023 06:55:23 PM 148 Views
Then nothing more needs to be said. See who support your lies, Ghav? They literally deny Love. *NM* - 31/08/2023 07:54:23 PM 79 Views
He understands love a lot better than you do. *NM* - 01/09/2023 04:46:14 AM 72 Views
Hah! I knew you didn't worship God. Thanks for admitting it. *NM* - 02/09/2023 03:38:43 PM 82 Views
You're simply acting deranged at this point. - 03/09/2023 01:13:20 AM 168 Views
I hope you don't call yourselves Christian. - 03/09/2023 04:11:06 AM 143 Views
Of course I'm Christian. I confess the faith of the apostles and of the councils. - 03/09/2023 11:41:56 AM 143 Views
Would you castrate Michelangelo's David? - 03/09/2023 09:03:07 PM 131 Views
Dude, you have really driven this off the deep end. - 03/09/2023 04:03:16 PM 139 Views
It is not, and I am not. - 03/09/2023 09:06:48 PM 153 Views
You absolutely are - 03/09/2023 09:27:00 PM 149 Views
Caution is not condemnation. Warning is not judgment. - 03/09/2023 11:05:17 PM 139 Views
Bro, I'm not worried about your immortal soul. - 03/09/2023 11:35:41 PM 154 Views
I get that. But Ghav, supposedly, is. - 04/09/2023 12:09:55 AM 151 Views
You’ve expressed some pretty odious and ugly sentiments. - 03/09/2023 10:07:51 PM 156 Views
Yeah, I'm definitely an outsider, and so are you. - 28/08/2023 07:49:48 PM 139 Views
Ok. - 29/08/2023 05:09:14 AM 142 Views
I'll chew... - 11/08/2023 10:35:45 PM 173 Views
What's your stance on parents who refuse medical treatment for their children with cancer? - 11/08/2023 11:12:21 PM 171 Views
I think... - 11/08/2023 11:37:52 PM 166 Views
Really? - 12/08/2023 12:02:12 AM 160 Views
Am I being unreasonable? - 12/08/2023 05:16:06 AM 173 Views
Maybe not - 12/08/2023 03:38:50 PM 182 Views
Most of us don't really like "the gays," either. And referring to people as "blacks" is offensive. *NM* - 13/08/2023 12:34:32 AM 79 Views
... is referring to people as "whites" offensive? I really, really hope you say yes. *NM* - 14/08/2023 05:46:07 PM 126 Views
Unfortunately for whites, gays, blacks, and transgenders... - 14/08/2023 06:09:47 PM 138 Views
Their voice only counts *NM* - 14/08/2023 06:20:32 PM 78 Views
Touché *NM* - 14/08/2023 07:12:54 PM 78 Views
You can always choose not to be a dick online. *NM* - 14/08/2023 08:19:52 PM 77 Views
Now why would I want to do that? - 14/08/2023 11:24:09 PM 141 Views
You're not a dick. You're honest. - 14/08/2023 09:54:34 PM 164 Views
Why not both? - 15/08/2023 03:01:58 AM 149 Views
Sad, but true. - 17/08/2023 05:22:11 PM 144 Views
Re: I think... - 13/08/2023 12:35:05 AM 179 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 12/08/2023 03:49:47 PM 186 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 14/08/2023 10:56:15 PM 147 Views
Re: I'll chew... - 15/08/2023 11:32:12 PM 168 Views
3 weeks later, did you have fun with this thread Tyr? *NM* - 28/08/2023 08:16:13 PM 76 Views
We went a bit afield, sure, but hey, the board has a discussion going, doesn't it? *NM* - 29/08/2023 05:00:03 AM 69 Views
Well take care - 31/08/2023 11:06:43 PM 167 Views
Same to you. - 03/09/2023 04:20:19 AM 142 Views
Seeing things as beautiful or rotting - 03/09/2023 05:21:50 PM 156 Views
I could not disagree more. - 03/09/2023 09:13:31 PM 166 Views
See this is about you - 03/09/2023 11:22:53 PM 162 Views
No, it's about God. - 03/09/2023 11:28:55 PM 155 Views
How much history do you know about Samaritans? - 03/09/2023 11:39:54 PM 140 Views
Friend, you can cut the shit. - 04/09/2023 12:19:56 AM 139 Views
I was going to talk about Mount Gerizim you nitwit - 04/09/2023 01:36:16 AM 151 Views
Oh, my apologies then. - 04/09/2023 07:46:57 PM 154 Views

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