Active Users:1209 Time:22/11/2024 07:38:13 PM
(Not elite stuff) but Part of it goes back to the 80s and the militia movement Roland00 Send a noteboard - 21/07/2022 06:58:33 AM

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It's depressing. I've linked it below. It's a long read but very good.

A well put together birds eye view of what led to Jan 6 and continues to animate the Republican Party.

I have a question for you, but I want to make clear I'm not trying to enforce guilt or anything. I'm wondering how one deals with earthshattering blows to one's worldview. If we ever want to break this logjam, one side or the other is going to produce many humans who are suddenly going to awaken to how wrong their side was. So, with that in mind, my question:

If you agree with the broad thrust of the article, it does seem clear that a lot of the elements at play on Jan 6 had seeds sowed as far back as the Bush v Gore election. A lot of this was encouraged, more often blindly rather than with sinister motive, though not always, by the Republican elite and leadership.

And by now, the many puntings and cowerings from the GOP leadership about Trump over the years are legend. The way they've weaseled themselves into whatever influence and power they can wield through Trump is nauseating.

Both the GOP and the Dems need to learn from this, of course. The Democratic party isn't particularly structured to weather a cancer like Trump, but the very broad coalition holding the Dems together is their secret strength. The truly insane element is never able to gather sufficient support, so the folks who'd do the liberal version of the powerful oligarchic non-democratic Republic that the John Birch folks want... those guys don't rise to power, much. Certainly not to the point they can coalesce into a voting bloc in both Houses of Congress. Despite that, there's no reason for the Dems to not pay attention.

But on the flip side, I see no indication that a large enough portion of the GOP leadership has any interest in reckoning with Trump. If you know of a concrete movement that's having any success, I'd like to hear it.

The only solution I'm seeing is Dems boosting folks like Cheney and Murkowski, and in exchange, those folks boost Democrats in Purple states, and hopefully the weight of what almost happened and what actually can happen vote the against their instinct and work first to shore up democracy.

I don't care if this coalition agrees on barely anything. I don't want them to merge into one party at all. I'd rather go back to hating Chaney and sneering in contempt at Collins, while the reverse would hold against corresponding Democrats, but we'd all at least agree that there are limits to where we'll take the fight.


Do you see any other way to actually break through?


My opinion on this? There were two Presidential elections in my lifetime that were both so close, and beset by questions about irregularities, that the National Committees of the losing sides begged the candidates to contest the results. But both Richard Nixon and Al Gore refused to do so. Both stated that the consequences to the country of undermining faith in the election process were far worse than accepting defeat.

That's because both men understood the concept of legacy. Add Hilary Clinton to that list, btw. She so very easily could have refused to concede with plenty of facts to make herself feel good about it, but she didn't. I can fully believe that given who had won, she'd have far more ability to feel morally justified than the other two would have in deciding to break with tradition.

Trump has no such conception of legacy or memory. He is about exploiting the present to maximize his sense of worth. He cannot be a looser. Better to try bully the world into walking back your defeat by throwing a big enough tantrum.


Part of it goes back to the 80s and the militia movement which became a wildfire in the 90s due to the collapse of the USSR and thus some people thought we were entering into a millenarian end times movement. Likewise Ruby Ridge, Waco, 1994 Gun Control, and then the OKC bombing transformed that movement. This movement then went online.

At the same time it is also other things such as Christian Dominionists who believe the US is religiously corrupt and the natural state of things, before man corrupted it via stuff with listening to demons is that good Christian men leading the nation, and the US leading the world, for good Christian men are “the elect.” The circular protests around state buildings, abortion centers, and the US capital is meant to trigger the Old Testament Jericho for even though that event happened in the past, or it was metaphor, the fact it happened once means somehow it can occur again. And the riots of Jericho after the walls fell, was a righteous cleansing event.

So on and so on, there are more examples than these two and that is precisely why it is dangerous, it is overcoded and overdetermined. But also why the Democratic Leadership (current) is in so much denial, for it has not happened yet, so maybe it will not happen in the future, and it is multiple masses without a top down organizing principle. Somehow this is supposed to be comforting instead of the opposite which is what I feel. Almost all is possible, the good things and the horrors, now is the integrum between stable states.

——————

But yeah the problem is Republican elites are at least considering it, not just the fringe base (which is different the the middle part of the Republican base.)

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