Active Users:463 Time:22/02/2025 08:18:48 PM
Unfortunately, there's not much to say. Dragonsoul Send a noteboard - 26/05/2022 04:26:10 PM

Your post is a great summary of why change in the United States is so difficult. Absent a constitutional amendment, which would have no support, or some really reaching judicial activism (like the SC finding AR-15 style rifles are unconstitutional) stricter laws are about as good as it gets. Even then, as you rightfully pointed out, they don't always work.

I think what bothers me more than anything is the selective outrage. Was this an abject, horrible tragedy? Absolutely. Should we be outraged that an unstable 18 year old, with a plethora of warning signs, was able to pull this off when he should have been institutionalized a long time ago? Yes, of course (I'll also point out that his own mother was so deluded that she left her mother, who her son, the perpetrator, shot in the face, in the hospital to fight alone for her life to search for the perpetrator because she believed he couldn't have done it). Should we be outraged that so many children, and their teachers, have been killed? 100%.

But where is the daily outrage at gun violence? In Chicago there were 3500 shooting incidents in 2021, almost 10 per day (chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://home.chicagopolice.org/wp-content/uploads/CompStat-Public-2021-Year-End.pdf).

Detroit in 2020 had "1,173 nonfatal shootings" in addition to hundreds of murders (https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2021/01/06/detroit-homicides-shootings-2020/6563259002/).

In LA in 2021, there were "1,400 people who survived shootings" (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-12-31/gun-violence-los-angles-15-year-high).

And those are just three cities. And, to be sure, some of those incidents were no doubt carried out by AR-15 style weapons. However, the overwhelming vast majority of gun violence in America comes from handguns. "In 2020, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available, according to the FBI. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders" (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/).

While so many innocent people being murdered at once gets coverage, and has all the talking heads freaking out about banning AR-15s and "assault weapons," those weapons are rarely involved in actual murders. Additionally, the rate of gun deaths in the US has actually declined from prior years, adjusting for changes in population: "Despite the increase in such fatalities, the rate of gun deaths – a statistic that accounts for the nation’s growing population – remains below the levels of earlier years" (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/).

Gun violence is certainly a problem, and proactive measures must be taken to limit it. I just find it ironic that certain political groups will rage about AR-15 style weapons when something like this happens, but are completely silent about daily killings of school kids when handguns are the weapons used, like the murder of Secoriea Turner (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/killed-baby-year-girl-killed-atlanta-shooting-71622608 ), or a 16 year old kid murdered at his bus stop (https://www.wsbtv.com/video/local-video/16-year-old-gwinnett-county-student-killed-waiting-bus-stop/2043470d-6f38-40c5-a0bb-6fefa737a6c0/).

Handguns will never be banned under the Constitution, and laws that limit the ability to carry or use one likewise will probably not pass constitutional muster. That being the case, hyperbole about banning "assault weapons" or AR-15s should be ignored in favor of a frank discussion about how to limit handgun violence. Don't forget, for all the media's freakout over AR-15s (which NoBoDy EvEr NeEdS), it was a pistol attack at Virginia Tech that remains one of the deadliest school shootings in US history (32 murdered and 23 injured).

Banning guns (or regulating them into non-existence) will not happen in America. It's time to accept that reality and move towards a real solution that addresses the actual problem - and the actual problem is not the availability of AR-15s - its gangs, cartels, and criminals.

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If no one else wants to open this can of worms, I guess I’ll have to do it - 26/05/2022 02:07:18 AM 1042 Views
Unfortunately, there's not much to say. - 26/05/2022 04:26:10 PM 329 Views
You are not going to get a non emotional discussion about guns, it will never ever be rational - 26/05/2022 08:04:55 PM 285 Views
Re: You are not going to get a non emotional discussion about guns, it will never ever be rational - 26/05/2022 08:36:34 PM 318 Views
There are so many (partial)-solutions and no single one is going to solve it. - 26/05/2022 09:03:10 PM 286 Views
Unfortunately every time there is a mass shooting, gun sales spike. - 26/05/2022 09:26:09 PM 338 Views
Yes - 26/05/2022 09:55:14 PM 284 Views
Re: There are so many (partial)-solutions and no single one is going to solve it. - 26/05/2022 09:56:23 PM 293 Views
You understand two things can both be true, right? - 26/05/2022 10:19:56 PM 268 Views
In such a way - 26/05/2022 10:27:52 PM 298 Views
What Mookie said, Sense and Sensibility with Perspective - 26/05/2022 10:29:04 PM 280 Views
Oh yes, everyone is to blame, and hence no one - 26/05/2022 04:58:37 PM 309 Views
You obviously don't know anything about Canada's gun laws. - 26/05/2022 05:20:25 PM 332 Views
Remarkable - 27/05/2022 03:55:54 AM 293 Views
4% PAL acquisition is, in essence, a ban. - 27/05/2022 04:13:45 AM 277 Views
Well, that was a load of chickenshit - 27/05/2022 05:08:29 AM 296 Views
He said, running away. - 27/05/2022 11:34:19 AM 265 Views
He said, running away. - 27/05/2022 11:34:20 AM 269 Views
You are the RAFO poster child for inability to hold a rational discussion that includes disagreement - 26/05/2022 06:50:11 PM 317 Views
No, we're just disagreeing on what is rational, that is all... - 27/05/2022 03:42:23 AM 288 Views
You just don’t get it. - 27/05/2022 04:22:55 AM 325 Views
I think the same of you... - 27/05/2022 05:05:43 AM 302 Views
Article VI, Clause II - 27/05/2022 05:17:40 AM 287 Views
You're like a broken record. - 27/05/2022 05:23:52 AM 288 Views
Bro you literally come from a country that plays nuclear chicken with Pakistan. - 27/05/2022 11:40:07 AM 293 Views
And? - 27/05/2022 02:24:09 PM 285 Views
Lol Parody account confirmed. - 27/05/2022 04:04:56 PM 320 Views
Your repertoire of insults needs expansion. Keep trying. - 27/05/2022 04:27:35 PM 265 Views
He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 27/05/2022 09:58:30 PM 285 Views
whooops *NM* - 27/05/2022 09:58:03 PM 172 Views
Oh, fuck off. - 27/05/2022 06:21:45 PM 310 Views
Why is liking the Constitution a binary thing? - 27/05/2022 08:36:12 PM 271 Views
As you point out, it isn’t binary at all. - 27/05/2022 09:16:18 PM 284 Views
*NM* - 27/05/2022 09:55:28 PM 173 Views
It is not - 28/05/2022 07:19:32 AM 282 Views
Re: Oh, fuck off. - 28/05/2022 06:53:38 AM 293 Views
That's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. - 28/05/2022 06:56:05 PM 293 Views
When you shut your eyes, of course you can only see nothing - 28/05/2022 09:43:13 PM 289 Views
A dead child for freedom is the choice made every abortion. - 30/05/2022 08:16:18 PM 279 Views
Oh really? Then explain to me... - 31/05/2022 08:41:09 PM 314 Views
That baby isn't a baby, but that man is a woman - 01/06/2022 01:57:40 AM 291 Views
How would the world be different - 26/05/2022 07:03:22 PM 290 Views
Yes and if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle - 26/05/2022 07:14:08 PM 271 Views
I do not believe the original thread was made with curiosity or charity in mind. - 26/05/2022 07:24:20 PM 266 Views
Well isn’t this the pot calling the kettle black. - 26/05/2022 07:33:12 PM 281 Views
Well it is about respectability politics you see - 26/05/2022 07:38:59 PM 293 Views
You're one of those men. - 26/05/2022 08:27:53 PM 302 Views
Hypocrisy - 26/05/2022 08:42:17 PM 255 Views
I don't know whether English is your first language - 26/05/2022 10:00:04 PM 275 Views
Your attempt at mind reading is an abject failure. - 26/05/2022 07:58:07 PM 273 Views
You started with Foreclosure - 26/05/2022 08:08:36 PM 259 Views
Foreclosure, huh - 26/05/2022 08:48:50 PM 278 Views
My advice is listen to the podcast I linked Dragonsoul *NM* - 26/05/2022 09:05:13 PM 142 Views
One more thing - 26/05/2022 07:25:22 PM 294 Views
And I guess this post proves my point, lol. - 26/05/2022 07:34:48 PM 283 Views
Did I trigger you? - 26/05/2022 07:50:02 PM 245 Views
Never owned a gun, but I support gun rights. But... - 27/05/2022 02:51:26 AM 290 Views
I pretty much agree. - 27/05/2022 03:18:38 AM 297 Views
Yep, what Tyr said *NM* - 27/05/2022 03:27:33 AM 154 Views
The NY Yankees are now tweeting about guns. - 27/05/2022 03:26:45 AM 260 Views
Bah - 27/05/2022 04:25:25 AM 284 Views
Baseball twitter is bad - 27/05/2022 04:29:15 AM 254 Views
UPDATE on the shooter, Salvador Ramos - 27/05/2022 03:27:59 PM 309 Views
Can't be more of a disgrace than waiting an hour to go in and kill him. - 27/05/2022 04:05:58 PM 238 Views
Re: Can't be more of a disgrace than waiting an hour to go in and kill him. - 27/05/2022 04:15:22 PM 291 Views
I disagree. - 27/05/2022 10:02:23 PM 266 Views
It's funny how the left thinks only cops should have guns, but also ACAB. - 27/05/2022 06:15:23 PM 272 Views
They already lost their balls. - 27/05/2022 06:52:52 PM 303 Views
I am glad you protect your family - 27/05/2022 08:46:05 PM 259 Views
But see, this is why the death of community and religion is bad for America. - 27/05/2022 10:12:49 PM 263 Views
Charles Whitman took his rifles to the tower at UT Austin in 1966 and killed 14 random people. - 27/05/2022 10:21:42 PM 279 Views
And in May 1928, a maniac bombed a school in Michigan, killing 44. - 27/05/2022 11:46:34 PM 275 Views
I think the presence of visual imagery provides a mimetic response - 27/05/2022 11:52:32 PM 291 Views
Reasonable, but even then, that's merely another condemnation for the modern world. - 28/05/2022 12:06:30 AM 273 Views
I agree - 28/05/2022 12:56:10 AM 271 Views
I haven't said "bAn GuNs!1" - 27/05/2022 11:33:43 PM 284 Views
This is taken from the late Justice Scalia’s majority opinion in 2008’s DC vs. Heller - 27/05/2022 11:50:40 PM 303 Views
Please do not relitigate Heller with me - 27/05/2022 11:59:21 PM 285 Views
I wasn’t and will not. - 28/05/2022 01:01:59 AM 263 Views
We would scare them off that is what - 28/05/2022 01:43:11 AM 261 Views
You chose wisely - 28/05/2022 02:59:47 AM 274 Views
You did not. My apologies. - 28/05/2022 12:03:43 AM 271 Views
Why not 'harden' all schools and kindergartens with armed guards ? - 30/05/2022 03:40:06 PM 266 Views
You're completely right and I hate it. - 30/05/2022 08:24:29 PM 238 Views
Another podcast I enjoyed - 27/05/2022 08:26:56 PM 283 Views
This thread is reminiscint of the classic Wotmania debates from the aughts. - 29/05/2022 12:22:47 AM 307 Views
Nobody would like my idea, but personally, I think Korea's 2 year mandatory service would do us good - 30/05/2022 08:30:37 PM 260 Views
Yep there is zero chance that will happen. - 31/05/2022 10:32:06 PM 306 Views
Interesting - 31/05/2022 10:56:53 PM 287 Views
Re: Yep there is zero chance that will happen. - 01/06/2022 01:50:37 AM 263 Views
Believe it or not I am not always a Grump - 01/06/2022 03:38:16 AM 278 Views
Hot damn, Moolin Rouge was fantastic! *NM* - 01/06/2022 09:36:04 PM 276 Views
What about trans-men - 31/05/2022 10:07:21 PM 290 Views
an intriguing question - 31/05/2022 10:34:39 PM 292 Views
It's all tongue-in-cheek, and isn't that dumb? - 01/06/2022 02:01:04 AM 280 Views
Can the 21 year olds - 01/06/2022 03:44:08 AM 292 Views
Something tells me this won't factor in anyone's favor... - 01/06/2022 09:08:31 PM 302 Views
Wait, the *late* conservative Justice Alito? - 01/06/2022 03:56:19 PM 294 Views
my bad - 01/06/2022 05:09:22 PM 275 Views
Until the existing gun laws are actually enforced, I am not willing to entertain any new ones - 09/06/2022 09:55:41 PM 323 Views
Oh yeah, and I am sick of the hyperbolic gaslighting by both sides - 09/06/2022 10:02:25 PM 314 Views
Anarchy, the State, and UTOPIA ! - 10/06/2022 08:25:05 PM 288 Views
It gets darker and darker - 22/06/2022 02:10:08 AM 271 Views
It's so bad dude. So bad. Those poor souls... *NM* - 30/06/2022 05:04:56 PM 143 Views

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