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Not reading comprehension. Thinking comprehension... and it's not on my account entyti Send a noteboard - 09/05/2022 11:04:57 PM

So? I never said the Texas ban was anything other than what it was. When I referenced drawing the line at meiosis, I was indicating the line is arbitrary, and there's lack of consensus across the religion/science divide. I never said that was the line the Texas law was drawing.

That's not quite what happened, and you can look at the thread. You pulled meiosis out of you fourth point of contact, then dismissed the entire anti-abortion stance based on this extreme argument. Like a reverse Motte and Bailey.


Whether you misinterpreted that wilfully or because you failed to understand is beside the point. In either case, you're distracted by rage, performative or otherwise, because the facts of what I said aren't something you can argue with.

Facts? What facts? You do know what a fact is, right? Nevermind, I don't want to make your brain work too hard.


It's not difficult at all. I've spent a considerable part of my research career working on embryonic mice. Embryos and fetuses are not individual lives. There's nothing individual about them till they're delivered. No definition of individual fits. Potential for life is not life.

I feel sorry for you. So pumped with ideological nonsense that you don't understand how to reason through an argument.


I used meiosis as the extreme to which you can take where life begins. I used that as the outer boundary of where some people see life beginning at. Whether you hold to that, or the first detection of a heartbeat, or 15 weeks, there's good scientific evidence to rebut your claim. There's no individual if the division from the mother ends life. At that point, what we have is a division, a part, of the mother. And she is the sole determiner of what happens to that part of her body.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that it's somehow easier to rebut meiosis as the start of life than the other cutoffs used here. It is not. Life doesn't start till the fetus is developed enough to survive on its own.


Actually it's quite easy to rebut meiosis as the beginning point of life. Meiotic cells do not grow into anything once made. They do not consume outside nutrients, divide further, or progress in any way. An egg will only remain an egg. A sperm is nothing but a sperm. Show me a human that has come to being from only one of these, and you might have the beginnings of an argument.

And science is pretty clear on the fact that it is the zygote that is the beginning of life. Let me be clear, I would not necessarily use this line to determine any laws regarding abortion. But the line is not arbitrary. There are unique cells with a unique genetic signature growing, and they do not belong to the mother.

This is even demonstrated in cases where Rh negative mothers have an Rh-positive baby, then develop antibodies to the Rh protein, complicating downstream pregnancies. This is not an autoimmune disorder. It is a complication that arises from the interaction with two bodies that have unique genetic signatures and epigenetic expressions.

If you want to look at arbitrary lines, then look no further than your definition that life begins when the "fetus is developed enough to survive on its own." No child, pre or post natal, is developed enough to survive on it's own. Tell a newborn to go get it's own dinner, and see how long it survives.

But perhaps you are referencing the ability to remove the fetus from the mother and still ensure its survival. This is also arbitrary, as scientific breakthroughs have moved this line several times, and likely will continue to move this line if progress continues.


Post viability, I can certainly see an argument to define the start of life. But when it comes to that life or the life of the mother, this is again not a place where government has any business deciding which life to pick. The risk analysis is entirely up to the woman. No one has the right to force her to give up <I>her</I> life for the life she carries. No more than anyone can mandate that someone donate their organs.

Why is this hypothetical woman giving up her life? Are you referencing situations where the life of the mother is in jeopardy? Or do you simply mean that her quality of life will suffer because she now has a child depending on her?

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Abortion in the South, and soon, probably all over the country - 25/04/2022 01:26:45 AM 1080 Views
that is the trouble here - 25/04/2022 05:02:46 PM 292 Views
"The party of "bodily autonomy"" - 26/04/2022 04:51:05 PM 249 Views
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The issue is abortion. - 26/04/2022 07:39:00 PM 232 Views
Tell me your feelings about Lochner - 26/04/2022 07:53:00 PM 242 Views
Simple, it was wrongly decided. - 26/04/2022 09:51:27 PM 214 Views
I think that is enough for the day - 26/04/2022 11:07:42 PM 221 Views
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You can't have your cake and eat it too. - 26/04/2022 07:42:51 PM 264 Views
Uhhh - 26/04/2022 07:54:13 PM 231 Views
I mean, yeah. - 26/04/2022 09:58:19 PM 222 Views
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Broad popular support? - 27/04/2022 04:54:49 PM 235 Views
Cannoli is not wrong. - 26/04/2022 05:09:49 PM 269 Views
Cannoli is a contemptuous moron - 26/04/2022 06:56:33 PM 244 Views
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Was the Catholic Church EVIL . - 26/04/2022 07:01:50 PM 262 Views
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And I am problematizing your claim - 26/04/2022 08:34:17 PM 233 Views
Theodicy - 26/04/2022 08:55:50 PM 274 Views
Re: Theodicy - 26/04/2022 09:45:35 PM 241 Views
and yet... - 26/04/2022 10:35:58 PM 270 Views
What is the Andrea Dworkin line again? - 26/04/2022 11:06:30 PM 242 Views
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Have not had a drink yet. - 26/04/2022 11:46:59 PM 227 Views
Leaked draft opinion - 03/05/2022 06:42:20 PM 282 Views
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Results were leaked, not opinions. - 03/05/2022 08:02:10 PM 237 Views
If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM 238 Views
You're either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous - 03/05/2022 09:26:49 PM 246 Views
There's a very simple alternate reason - 05/05/2022 06:36:26 AM 239 Views
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He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 03:04:07 PM 237 Views
Re: He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 05:01:43 PM 208 Views
Don't blame me for your failures. - 09/05/2022 05:21:48 PM 193 Views
Leaking also kind of locks in the 5 justices into a more radical decision - 05/05/2022 04:08:58 PM 220 Views
Precisely. - 06/05/2022 09:22:16 PM 195 Views
Obvious intent my ass - 05/05/2022 06:32:10 AM 217 Views
Treasonous Pieces of Junk - 05/05/2022 01:58:23 PM 248 Views
I cannot commit treason - 06/05/2022 09:20:20 PM 226 Views
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Projecting what? - 09/05/2022 05:02:59 PM 224 Views
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Well, if it's not a parody... - 13/05/2022 07:46:45 PM 213 Views
Go look up what it means to “project” - 13/05/2022 05:04:19 PM 227 Views
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you wrote: - 06/05/2022 09:34:09 PM 189 Views
Ummm - 06/05/2022 09:42:57 PM 205 Views
Interesting is one word for it... - 05/05/2022 06:38:23 AM 215 Views
That's your thought.... - 06/05/2022 05:34:21 PM 245 Views
Hardly just mine - 06/05/2022 09:23:32 PM 192 Views
Interesting... - 06/05/2022 10:33:56 PM 244 Views
Roe has restrictions - 07/05/2022 03:16:32 AM 202 Views
So popular opinion is what decides recognition of life... - 06/05/2022 10:44:08 PM 232 Views
Nice try - 07/05/2022 03:19:35 AM 187 Views
No one said that, and you know it... - 07/05/2022 05:56:04 AM 214 Views
Well that's a lot of empty noise - 07/05/2022 02:46:48 PM 213 Views
Then stop listening to yourself… - 07/05/2022 06:56:45 PM 253 Views
Serious reading comprehension fail here... - 08/05/2022 05:01:28 PM 217 Views
Not reading comprehension. Thinking comprehension... and it's not on my account - 09/05/2022 11:04:57 PM 229 Views
That is the Catholic Church's position after 1869, but lets do Idaho and LA - 07/05/2022 10:08:39 PM 223 Views
And the Minoans practiced child sacrifice... - 09/05/2022 11:51:44 PM 208 Views
So we are in agreement if we circle around - 10/05/2022 02:34:19 AM 195 Views
Well, we agree it will get worse - 10/05/2022 04:05:33 PM 218 Views
Thanks for explaining why Roe was egregiously wrong. - 09/05/2022 03:56:52 PM 192 Views
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Actually, it does impose - 09/05/2022 05:19:38 PM 300 Views
Re: Actually, it does impose - 13/05/2022 05:09:04 PM 215 Views
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Cool - 16/05/2022 12:10:57 AM 233 Views
So our state energy grid - 16/05/2022 01:41:50 AM 223 Views
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Are you off your meds? - 16/05/2022 12:35:18 PM 206 Views
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You're literally arguing with yourself. - 16/05/2022 08:00:37 PM 204 Views
That is precisely what I am afraid of - 16/05/2022 08:07:41 PM 194 Views
That can literally be flipped right on to the other side. - 16/05/2022 08:19:02 PM 209 Views
Just a reminder freedom of movement is not in the US Constitution - 16/05/2022 08:25:42 PM 216 Views
Again, you put words into my mouth that I've never said. - 16/05/2022 08:32:38 PM 211 Views
Who the fuck cares? - 17/05/2022 12:54:48 PM 243 Views
Parody account strikes back! - 17/05/2022 07:14:24 PM 192 Views
a few final thoughts - 07/05/2022 07:18:38 PM 289 Views
In some ways, it probably would've been better if Roe v Wade had never happened. - 07/05/2022 08:20:17 PM 251 Views
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He really is wonderful. - 09/05/2022 04:29:00 PM 234 Views
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History and Histrionic or perhaps - 07/05/2022 10:25:23 PM 227 Views
The denominational distinctions within Christiandom aren't of concern to me... - 08/05/2022 05:09:12 PM 326 Views
There is an easy answer for you. - 09/05/2022 03:53:42 PM 237 Views

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