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The denominational distinctions within Christiandom aren't of concern to me... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 08/05/2022 05:09:12 PM

In a question of what should be law in a secular nation, whether the imposed belief is Catholic or Evangelical is a meaningless distinction. Neither denomination has any right to make the decision for every person in the country.


Second, even in some dead Red States, the divide is close to 50/50 on permitting abortion when conception is from rape or incest, according to NYT polls. The same polls indicate that while the great majority of Americans support some access to abortion, they also favor restrictions similar to what exist in Europe, which are far more restrictive that what currently exist in Blue States. I believe Germany restricts abortion access after 12 weeks which is less than the 15 in some Red State laws. So stating that Americans favor unlimited access to abortion, i.e. the status quo in Blue States, is not accurate.


Which leads to my final thought on this. Notice all the hyperbole is emanating from the edges? Notice who is conspicuously silent? Republicans not associated with the Religious Right. Why? They realize if Roe vs. Wade is repealed, it could completely fuck up what otherwise looked to be an historic debacle of a midterm election for the Democrats. It would mobilize the vote and possibly save Democratic control of Congress.
Yes, there is demand for restrictions on abortion. And that's a conversation a lot of people would be willing to have if the fundamental right was not at stake. The more the Right attacks that right, the more maximalist the position the Left takes. It's a kind of political virtue signaling on both sides. It's deeply unhealthy.


Which is exactly how the system is supposed to work. You vote out those who support beliefs contrary to your own. It took 50 years of working the system for the Religious Right to be on the verge of declaring victory over abortion. I'm betting doing the same from the Blue side will take a whole lot less.

Answer me this. The position taken by many here is that the decision should be made democratically, not via the courts, right? Well, Republicans have had full control of Congress, and trifecta control of multiple states for many periods since Roe. Why have they not sought a legislative end to Roe? Pushed for a Constitutional Amendment that would overturn Roe?

If you think judicial fiat is not the way to adjudicate this issue, why resort to the very thing Liberals are accused of (even though the Court that handed down Roe was hardly captured by Liberals, a fact conveniently ignored by everyone here)?

This message last edited by fionwe1987 on 08/05/2022 at 05:26:59 PM
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Abortion in the South, and soon, probably all over the country - 25/04/2022 01:26:45 AM 1147 Views
that is the trouble here - 25/04/2022 05:02:46 PM 351 Views
"The party of "bodily autonomy"" - 26/04/2022 04:51:05 PM 306 Views
That is a perverts motte and bailey argument - 26/04/2022 06:27:51 PM 325 Views
The issue is abortion. - 26/04/2022 07:39:00 PM 301 Views
Tell me your feelings about Lochner - 26/04/2022 07:53:00 PM 301 Views
Simple, it was wrongly decided. - 26/04/2022 09:51:27 PM 278 Views
I think that is enough for the day - 26/04/2022 11:07:42 PM 292 Views
I honestly don't give a fig about the constitution here... - 26/04/2022 07:00:57 PM 335 Views
You can't have your cake and eat it too. - 26/04/2022 07:42:51 PM 333 Views
Uhhh - 26/04/2022 07:54:13 PM 288 Views
I mean, yeah. - 26/04/2022 09:58:19 PM 292 Views
You seem to be arguing with an alternate version of me... - 27/04/2022 04:46:46 AM 325 Views
Broad popular support? - 27/04/2022 04:54:49 PM 300 Views
Cannoli is not wrong. - 26/04/2022 05:09:49 PM 355 Views
Cannoli is a contemptuous moron - 26/04/2022 06:56:33 PM 306 Views
I am contemptuous of you (and I suspect your vocabulary skills) - 26/04/2022 09:30:55 PM 353 Views
Was the Catholic Church EVIL . - 26/04/2022 07:01:50 PM 329 Views
Roland, I am neither supporting nor denying any specific theology in my original comment. - 26/04/2022 08:28:31 PM 283 Views
And I am problematizing your claim - 26/04/2022 08:34:17 PM 302 Views
Theodicy - 26/04/2022 08:55:50 PM 339 Views
Re: Theodicy - 26/04/2022 09:45:35 PM 304 Views
and yet... - 26/04/2022 10:35:58 PM 336 Views
What is the Andrea Dworkin line again? - 26/04/2022 11:06:30 PM 317 Views
You're correct about that. We are most assuredly talking past one another. - 26/04/2022 11:39:01 PM 284 Views
Have not had a drink yet. - 26/04/2022 11:46:59 PM 291 Views
Leaked draft opinion - 03/05/2022 06:42:20 PM 357 Views
John Roberts confirms it is real - 03/05/2022 07:37:26 PM 318 Views
Results were leaked, not opinions. - 03/05/2022 08:02:10 PM 281 Views
If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM 307 Views
You're either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous - 03/05/2022 09:26:49 PM 315 Views
There's a very simple alternate reason - 05/05/2022 06:36:26 AM 305 Views
“Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 05/05/2022 02:02:00 PM 275 Views
Re: “Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 06/05/2022 09:18:24 PM 311 Views
He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 03:04:07 PM 298 Views
Re: He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 05:01:43 PM 266 Views
Don't blame me for your failures. - 09/05/2022 05:21:48 PM 251 Views
Leaking also kind of locks in the 5 justices into a more radical decision - 05/05/2022 04:08:58 PM 285 Views
Precisely. - 06/05/2022 09:22:16 PM 260 Views
Obvious intent my ass - 05/05/2022 06:32:10 AM 285 Views
Treasonous Pieces of Junk - 05/05/2022 01:58:23 PM 285 Views
I cannot commit treason - 06/05/2022 09:20:20 PM 293 Views
Neither am I. - 09/05/2022 03:02:54 PM 307 Views
Projecting what? - 09/05/2022 05:02:59 PM 292 Views
Is this a parody account? - 09/05/2022 05:25:39 PM 281 Views
Nope. - 12/05/2022 10:23:24 PM 270 Views
Well, if it's not a parody... - 13/05/2022 07:46:45 PM 284 Views
Go look up what it means to “project” - 13/05/2022 05:04:19 PM 283 Views
Stop shifting the goalposts - 13/05/2022 07:45:21 PM 281 Views
There is no goalpost shifting - 17/05/2022 12:48:18 PM 302 Views
Parody Account: Hypocrite, or Just Stupid? - 17/05/2022 07:26:49 PM 308 Views
actually, Trump was impeached - 05/05/2022 02:05:16 PM 288 Views
By Democrats and a few Republicans - 06/05/2022 09:21:38 PM 312 Views
you wrote: - 06/05/2022 09:34:09 PM 251 Views
Ummm - 06/05/2022 09:42:57 PM 264 Views
Interesting is one word for it... - 05/05/2022 06:38:23 AM 280 Views
That's your thought.... - 06/05/2022 05:34:21 PM 325 Views
Hardly just mine - 06/05/2022 09:23:32 PM 251 Views
Interesting... - 06/05/2022 10:33:56 PM 310 Views
Roe has restrictions - 07/05/2022 03:16:32 AM 275 Views
So popular opinion is what decides recognition of life... - 06/05/2022 10:44:08 PM 308 Views
Nice try - 07/05/2022 03:19:35 AM 245 Views
No one said that, and you know it... - 07/05/2022 05:56:04 AM 276 Views
Well that's a lot of empty noise - 07/05/2022 02:46:48 PM 281 Views
Then stop listening to yourself… - 07/05/2022 06:56:45 PM 314 Views
Serious reading comprehension fail here... - 08/05/2022 05:01:28 PM 284 Views
That is the Catholic Church's position after 1869, but lets do Idaho and LA - 07/05/2022 10:08:39 PM 288 Views
And the Minoans practiced child sacrifice... - 09/05/2022 11:51:44 PM 277 Views
So we are in agreement if we circle around - 10/05/2022 02:34:19 AM 261 Views
Well, we agree it will get worse - 10/05/2022 04:05:33 PM 286 Views
Thanks for explaining why Roe was egregiously wrong. - 09/05/2022 03:56:52 PM 259 Views
Roe imposed nothing - 09/05/2022 05:05:36 PM 288 Views
Actually, it does impose - 09/05/2022 05:19:38 PM 361 Views
Re: Actually, it does impose - 13/05/2022 05:09:04 PM 281 Views
Roe imposed abortion on states that banned it. - 09/05/2022 05:26:56 PM 301 Views
States rights do not trump individual rights - 13/05/2022 05:12:13 PM 286 Views
States rights regulate individual rights - 13/05/2022 07:42:52 PM 302 Views
I am not allowed to get divorced in my state of Texas if my spouse is pregnant. - 15/05/2022 07:59:19 PM 310 Views
Cool - 16/05/2022 12:10:57 AM 297 Views
So our state energy grid - 16/05/2022 01:41:50 AM 284 Views
Wow, not sure I've seen you so angry before - 16/05/2022 08:12:58 AM 320 Views
Are you off your meds? - 16/05/2022 12:35:18 PM 244 Views
I live in the world the US set up Internment Camps in living memory, I known survivors. - 16/05/2022 06:00:07 PM 280 Views
You're literally arguing with yourself. - 16/05/2022 08:00:37 PM 290 Views
That is precisely what I am afraid of - 16/05/2022 08:07:41 PM 254 Views
That can literally be flipped right on to the other side. - 16/05/2022 08:19:02 PM 273 Views
Just a reminder freedom of movement is not in the US Constitution - 16/05/2022 08:25:42 PM 289 Views
Again, you put words into my mouth that I've never said. - 16/05/2022 08:32:38 PM 283 Views
Who the fuck cares? - 17/05/2022 12:54:48 PM 313 Views
Parody account strikes back! - 17/05/2022 07:14:24 PM 257 Views
a few final thoughts - 07/05/2022 07:18:38 PM 349 Views
In some ways, it probably would've been better if Roe v Wade had never happened. - 07/05/2022 08:20:17 PM 294 Views
I can always count on you for rational discussion. *NM* - 07/05/2022 09:19:57 PM 199 Views
He really is wonderful. - 09/05/2022 04:29:00 PM 309 Views
Let me join in. Yes. Legolas is good people. *NM* - 10/05/2022 02:52:37 PM 161 Views
History and Histrionic or perhaps - 07/05/2022 10:25:23 PM 298 Views
The denominational distinctions within Christiandom aren't of concern to me... - 08/05/2022 05:09:12 PM 397 Views
There is an easy answer for you. - 09/05/2022 03:53:42 PM 308 Views

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