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If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. Roland00 Send a noteboard - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM

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A draft opinion has never been leaked before in the history of the court.

Obviously the intent was intimidation - whoever leaked it knew that they could not convince any of the Justices to change their stance so they attempted to get the abortion lobby to do it for them. I think, as Alito wrote in his draft, the Justices won't pay much mind to public opinion, and will do what they believe to be their legal duty.

I also think, however, that this sets a bad precedent. Like the impeachments of Trump guaranteed that every future Democratic president for the foreseeable future will be impeached regardless of the merits of the impeachment, this too means that if there is ever a decision that would come down like Obergefell or Sebelius that would piss off the right, draft decisions will get leaked.

It's a shitty day for the Supreme Court, for judicial ethics (I don't believe that a clerk sent this out without a blessing from one of the three), and for judicial independence.

My only hope is that the Justices refuse to back down to the pressure of the abortion lobby and the media and double down on this decision to show they will not be intimidated into changing their minds or forsaking their legal duty.


I see the distinction of

1) Court is going to have a ruling for, against, mixed
2) The actual deliberations of the court with the mixture of justices and why they are going to do it
3) A rough draft opinion and who is tentatively voting for that opinion

I see the distinction between 2 and 3 is a difference without a real difference, unless one wants to go analytical here. 2 happened with Dred Scott as well as other court cases of that time and after. It is nothing new under the sun, but hey some semblance of things do change if you want to rest your hat on that specific hat rack.

———

As for intent, no I do not see it as obvious and there are a dozen different theories out there and it may never be known. Who stands to benefit is precisely why the court is not just balls and strikes but is a political branch as you pointed out in Sebilius court case.

Likewise while not Obergefell but the earlier 1980s case, Bowers v. Hardwick which was about Gay Sodomy, it was 5-4 decision where the states can make Sodomy illegal. Justice Powell one of the 5 judges said at the time he did not know any gay people, he also asked his clerks, one of the clerks was queer and kept his mouth shut for he was closeted, and 4 years after this case was final Powell said he regretted his decision.

But the court is sacrosanct don’t you know! Except I disagree and stop using the word sacred / sacer / sacro for a man dirties the word when one says such nonsense. The court is not inviolable just like history itself is not innocent but full of mess and complications.

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Abortion in the South, and soon, probably all over the country - 25/04/2022 01:26:45 AM 1091 Views
that is the trouble here - 25/04/2022 05:02:46 PM 302 Views
"The party of "bodily autonomy"" - 26/04/2022 04:51:05 PM 258 Views
That is a perverts motte and bailey argument - 26/04/2022 06:27:51 PM 275 Views
The issue is abortion. - 26/04/2022 07:39:00 PM 244 Views
Tell me your feelings about Lochner - 26/04/2022 07:53:00 PM 251 Views
Simple, it was wrongly decided. - 26/04/2022 09:51:27 PM 222 Views
I think that is enough for the day - 26/04/2022 11:07:42 PM 230 Views
I honestly don't give a fig about the constitution here... - 26/04/2022 07:00:57 PM 285 Views
You can't have your cake and eat it too. - 26/04/2022 07:42:51 PM 272 Views
Uhhh - 26/04/2022 07:54:13 PM 240 Views
I mean, yeah. - 26/04/2022 09:58:19 PM 232 Views
You seem to be arguing with an alternate version of me... - 27/04/2022 04:46:46 AM 265 Views
Broad popular support? - 27/04/2022 04:54:49 PM 244 Views
Cannoli is not wrong. - 26/04/2022 05:09:49 PM 293 Views
Cannoli is a contemptuous moron - 26/04/2022 06:56:33 PM 252 Views
I am contemptuous of you (and I suspect your vocabulary skills) - 26/04/2022 09:30:55 PM 285 Views
Was the Catholic Church EVIL . - 26/04/2022 07:01:50 PM 273 Views
Roland, I am neither supporting nor denying any specific theology in my original comment. - 26/04/2022 08:28:31 PM 234 Views
And I am problematizing your claim - 26/04/2022 08:34:17 PM 241 Views
Theodicy - 26/04/2022 08:55:50 PM 289 Views
Re: Theodicy - 26/04/2022 09:45:35 PM 250 Views
and yet... - 26/04/2022 10:35:58 PM 278 Views
What is the Andrea Dworkin line again? - 26/04/2022 11:06:30 PM 254 Views
You're correct about that. We are most assuredly talking past one another. - 26/04/2022 11:39:01 PM 228 Views
Have not had a drink yet. - 26/04/2022 11:46:59 PM 235 Views
Leaked draft opinion - 03/05/2022 06:42:20 PM 294 Views
John Roberts confirms it is real - 03/05/2022 07:37:26 PM 263 Views
Results were leaked, not opinions. - 03/05/2022 08:02:10 PM 249 Views
If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM 249 Views
You're either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous - 03/05/2022 09:26:49 PM 252 Views
There's a very simple alternate reason - 05/05/2022 06:36:26 AM 255 Views
“Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 05/05/2022 02:02:00 PM 226 Views
Re: “Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 06/05/2022 09:18:24 PM 251 Views
He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 03:04:07 PM 261 Views
Re: He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 05:01:43 PM 217 Views
Don't blame me for your failures. - 09/05/2022 05:21:48 PM 200 Views
Leaking also kind of locks in the 5 justices into a more radical decision - 05/05/2022 04:08:58 PM 227 Views
Precisely. - 06/05/2022 09:22:16 PM 203 Views
Obvious intent my ass - 05/05/2022 06:32:10 AM 227 Views
Treasonous Pieces of Junk - 05/05/2022 01:58:23 PM 254 Views
I cannot commit treason - 06/05/2022 09:20:20 PM 239 Views
Neither am I. - 09/05/2022 03:02:54 PM 250 Views
Projecting what? - 09/05/2022 05:02:59 PM 232 Views
Is this a parody account? - 09/05/2022 05:25:39 PM 230 Views
Nope. - 12/05/2022 10:23:24 PM 223 Views
Well, if it's not a parody... - 13/05/2022 07:46:45 PM 222 Views
Go look up what it means to “project” - 13/05/2022 05:04:19 PM 237 Views
Stop shifting the goalposts - 13/05/2022 07:45:21 PM 228 Views
There is no goalpost shifting - 17/05/2022 12:48:18 PM 246 Views
Parody Account: Hypocrite, or Just Stupid? - 17/05/2022 07:26:49 PM 242 Views
actually, Trump was impeached - 05/05/2022 02:05:16 PM 229 Views
By Democrats and a few Republicans - 06/05/2022 09:21:38 PM 246 Views
you wrote: - 06/05/2022 09:34:09 PM 200 Views
Ummm - 06/05/2022 09:42:57 PM 214 Views
Interesting is one word for it... - 05/05/2022 06:38:23 AM 223 Views
That's your thought.... - 06/05/2022 05:34:21 PM 261 Views
Hardly just mine - 06/05/2022 09:23:32 PM 200 Views
Interesting... - 06/05/2022 10:33:56 PM 251 Views
Roe has restrictions - 07/05/2022 03:16:32 AM 214 Views
So popular opinion is what decides recognition of life... - 06/05/2022 10:44:08 PM 240 Views
Nice try - 07/05/2022 03:19:35 AM 198 Views
No one said that, and you know it... - 07/05/2022 05:56:04 AM 221 Views
Well that's a lot of empty noise - 07/05/2022 02:46:48 PM 223 Views
Then stop listening to yourself… - 07/05/2022 06:56:45 PM 262 Views
Serious reading comprehension fail here... - 08/05/2022 05:01:28 PM 228 Views
That is the Catholic Church's position after 1869, but lets do Idaho and LA - 07/05/2022 10:08:39 PM 231 Views
And the Minoans practiced child sacrifice... - 09/05/2022 11:51:44 PM 216 Views
So we are in agreement if we circle around - 10/05/2022 02:34:19 AM 206 Views
Well, we agree it will get worse - 10/05/2022 04:05:33 PM 230 Views
Thanks for explaining why Roe was egregiously wrong. - 09/05/2022 03:56:52 PM 200 Views
Roe imposed nothing - 09/05/2022 05:05:36 PM 231 Views
Actually, it does impose - 09/05/2022 05:19:38 PM 312 Views
Re: Actually, it does impose - 13/05/2022 05:09:04 PM 223 Views
Roe imposed abortion on states that banned it. - 09/05/2022 05:26:56 PM 241 Views
States rights do not trump individual rights - 13/05/2022 05:12:13 PM 228 Views
States rights regulate individual rights - 13/05/2022 07:42:52 PM 247 Views
I am not allowed to get divorced in my state of Texas if my spouse is pregnant. - 15/05/2022 07:59:19 PM 249 Views
Cool - 16/05/2022 12:10:57 AM 243 Views
So our state energy grid - 16/05/2022 01:41:50 AM 235 Views
Wow, not sure I've seen you so angry before - 16/05/2022 08:12:58 AM 257 Views
Are you off your meds? - 16/05/2022 12:35:18 PM 216 Views
I live in the world the US set up Internment Camps in living memory, I known survivors. - 16/05/2022 06:00:07 PM 224 Views
You're literally arguing with yourself. - 16/05/2022 08:00:37 PM 224 Views
That is precisely what I am afraid of - 16/05/2022 08:07:41 PM 202 Views
That can literally be flipped right on to the other side. - 16/05/2022 08:19:02 PM 221 Views
Just a reminder freedom of movement is not in the US Constitution - 16/05/2022 08:25:42 PM 230 Views
Again, you put words into my mouth that I've never said. - 16/05/2022 08:32:38 PM 222 Views
Who the fuck cares? - 17/05/2022 12:54:48 PM 254 Views
Parody account strikes back! - 17/05/2022 07:14:24 PM 204 Views
a few final thoughts - 07/05/2022 07:18:38 PM 302 Views
In some ways, it probably would've been better if Roe v Wade had never happened. - 07/05/2022 08:20:17 PM 266 Views
I can always count on you for rational discussion. *NM* - 07/05/2022 09:19:57 PM 179 Views
He really is wonderful. - 09/05/2022 04:29:00 PM 251 Views
Let me join in. Yes. Legolas is good people. *NM* - 10/05/2022 02:52:37 PM 133 Views
History and Histrionic or perhaps - 07/05/2022 10:25:23 PM 240 Views
The denominational distinctions within Christiandom aren't of concern to me... - 08/05/2022 05:09:12 PM 337 Views
There is an easy answer for you. - 09/05/2022 03:53:42 PM 249 Views

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