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If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. Roland00 Send a noteboard - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM

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A draft opinion has never been leaked before in the history of the court.

Obviously the intent was intimidation - whoever leaked it knew that they could not convince any of the Justices to change their stance so they attempted to get the abortion lobby to do it for them. I think, as Alito wrote in his draft, the Justices won't pay much mind to public opinion, and will do what they believe to be their legal duty.

I also think, however, that this sets a bad precedent. Like the impeachments of Trump guaranteed that every future Democratic president for the foreseeable future will be impeached regardless of the merits of the impeachment, this too means that if there is ever a decision that would come down like Obergefell or Sebelius that would piss off the right, draft decisions will get leaked.

It's a shitty day for the Supreme Court, for judicial ethics (I don't believe that a clerk sent this out without a blessing from one of the three), and for judicial independence.

My only hope is that the Justices refuse to back down to the pressure of the abortion lobby and the media and double down on this decision to show they will not be intimidated into changing their minds or forsaking their legal duty.


I see the distinction of

1) Court is going to have a ruling for, against, mixed
2) The actual deliberations of the court with the mixture of justices and why they are going to do it
3) A rough draft opinion and who is tentatively voting for that opinion

I see the distinction between 2 and 3 is a difference without a real difference, unless one wants to go analytical here. 2 happened with Dred Scott as well as other court cases of that time and after. It is nothing new under the sun, but hey some semblance of things do change if you want to rest your hat on that specific hat rack.

———

As for intent, no I do not see it as obvious and there are a dozen different theories out there and it may never be known. Who stands to benefit is precisely why the court is not just balls and strikes but is a political branch as you pointed out in Sebilius court case.

Likewise while not Obergefell but the earlier 1980s case, Bowers v. Hardwick which was about Gay Sodomy, it was 5-4 decision where the states can make Sodomy illegal. Justice Powell one of the 5 judges said at the time he did not know any gay people, he also asked his clerks, one of the clerks was queer and kept his mouth shut for he was closeted, and 4 years after this case was final Powell said he regretted his decision.

But the court is sacrosanct don’t you know! Except I disagree and stop using the word sacred / sacer / sacro for a man dirties the word when one says such nonsense. The court is not inviolable just like history itself is not innocent but full of mess and complications.

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Abortion in the South, and soon, probably all over the country - 25/04/2022 01:26:45 AM 1295 Views
that is the trouble here - 25/04/2022 05:02:46 PM 504 Views
"The party of "bodily autonomy"" - 26/04/2022 04:51:05 PM 444 Views
That is a perverts motte and bailey argument - 26/04/2022 06:27:51 PM 467 Views
The issue is abortion. - 26/04/2022 07:39:00 PM 426 Views
Tell me your feelings about Lochner - 26/04/2022 07:53:00 PM 426 Views
Simple, it was wrongly decided. - 26/04/2022 09:51:27 PM 404 Views
I think that is enough for the day - 26/04/2022 11:07:42 PM 438 Views
I honestly don't give a fig about the constitution here... - 26/04/2022 07:00:57 PM 452 Views
You can't have your cake and eat it too. - 26/04/2022 07:42:51 PM 461 Views
Uhhh - 26/04/2022 07:54:13 PM 429 Views
I mean, yeah. - 26/04/2022 09:58:19 PM 426 Views
You seem to be arguing with an alternate version of me... - 27/04/2022 04:46:46 AM 478 Views
Broad popular support? - 27/04/2022 04:54:49 PM 436 Views
Cannoli is not wrong. - 26/04/2022 05:09:49 PM 487 Views
Cannoli is a contemptuous moron - 26/04/2022 06:56:33 PM 433 Views
I am contemptuous of you (and I suspect your vocabulary skills) - 26/04/2022 09:30:55 PM 487 Views
Was the Catholic Church EVIL . - 26/04/2022 07:01:50 PM 465 Views
Roland, I am neither supporting nor denying any specific theology in my original comment. - 26/04/2022 08:28:31 PM 422 Views
And I am problematizing your claim - 26/04/2022 08:34:17 PM 438 Views
Theodicy - 26/04/2022 08:55:50 PM 477 Views
Re: Theodicy - 26/04/2022 09:45:35 PM 444 Views
and yet... - 26/04/2022 10:35:58 PM 470 Views
What is the Andrea Dworkin line again? - 26/04/2022 11:06:30 PM 451 Views
You're correct about that. We are most assuredly talking past one another. - 26/04/2022 11:39:01 PM 411 Views
Have not had a drink yet. - 26/04/2022 11:46:59 PM 421 Views
Leaked draft opinion - 03/05/2022 06:42:20 PM 488 Views
John Roberts confirms it is real - 03/05/2022 07:37:26 PM 451 Views
Results were leaked, not opinions. - 03/05/2022 08:02:10 PM 412 Views
If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM 440 Views
You're either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous - 03/05/2022 09:26:49 PM 457 Views
There's a very simple alternate reason - 05/05/2022 06:36:26 AM 447 Views
“Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 05/05/2022 02:02:00 PM 401 Views
Re: “Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 06/05/2022 09:18:24 PM 448 Views
He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 03:04:07 PM 424 Views
Re: He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 05:01:43 PM 389 Views
Don't blame me for your failures. - 09/05/2022 05:21:48 PM 375 Views
Leaking also kind of locks in the 5 justices into a more radical decision - 05/05/2022 04:08:58 PM 417 Views
Precisely. - 06/05/2022 09:22:16 PM 387 Views
Obvious intent my ass - 05/05/2022 06:32:10 AM 420 Views
Treasonous Pieces of Junk - 05/05/2022 01:58:23 PM 417 Views
I cannot commit treason - 06/05/2022 09:20:20 PM 418 Views
Neither am I. - 09/05/2022 03:02:54 PM 428 Views
Projecting what? - 09/05/2022 05:02:59 PM 416 Views
Is this a parody account? - 09/05/2022 05:25:39 PM 412 Views
Nope. - 12/05/2022 10:23:24 PM 394 Views
Well, if it's not a parody... - 13/05/2022 07:46:45 PM 407 Views
Go look up what it means to “project” - 13/05/2022 05:04:19 PM 415 Views
Stop shifting the goalposts - 13/05/2022 07:45:21 PM 403 Views
There is no goalpost shifting - 17/05/2022 12:48:18 PM 426 Views
Parody Account: Hypocrite, or Just Stupid? - 17/05/2022 07:26:49 PM 442 Views
actually, Trump was impeached - 05/05/2022 02:05:16 PM 419 Views
By Democrats and a few Republicans - 06/05/2022 09:21:38 PM 437 Views
you wrote: - 06/05/2022 09:34:09 PM 371 Views
Ummm - 06/05/2022 09:42:57 PM 386 Views
Interesting is one word for it... - 05/05/2022 06:38:23 AM 402 Views
That's your thought.... - 06/05/2022 05:34:21 PM 449 Views
Hardly just mine - 06/05/2022 09:23:32 PM 379 Views
Interesting... - 06/05/2022 10:33:56 PM 434 Views
Roe has restrictions - 07/05/2022 03:16:32 AM 407 Views
So popular opinion is what decides recognition of life... - 06/05/2022 10:44:08 PM 433 Views
Nice try - 07/05/2022 03:19:35 AM 379 Views
No one said that, and you know it... - 07/05/2022 05:56:04 AM 406 Views
Well that's a lot of empty noise - 07/05/2022 02:46:48 PM 410 Views
Then stop listening to yourself… - 07/05/2022 06:56:45 PM 449 Views
Serious reading comprehension fail here... - 08/05/2022 05:01:28 PM 421 Views
That is the Catholic Church's position after 1869, but lets do Idaho and LA - 07/05/2022 10:08:39 PM 418 Views
And the Minoans practiced child sacrifice... - 09/05/2022 11:51:44 PM 404 Views
So we are in agreement if we circle around - 10/05/2022 02:34:19 AM 383 Views
Well, we agree it will get worse - 10/05/2022 04:05:33 PM 424 Views
Thanks for explaining why Roe was egregiously wrong. - 09/05/2022 03:56:52 PM 387 Views
Roe imposed nothing - 09/05/2022 05:05:36 PM 427 Views
Actually, it does impose - 09/05/2022 05:19:38 PM 625 Views
Re: Actually, it does impose - 13/05/2022 05:09:04 PM 410 Views
Roe imposed abortion on states that banned it. - 09/05/2022 05:26:56 PM 438 Views
States rights do not trump individual rights - 13/05/2022 05:12:13 PM 424 Views
States rights regulate individual rights - 13/05/2022 07:42:52 PM 438 Views
I am not allowed to get divorced in my state of Texas if my spouse is pregnant. - 15/05/2022 07:59:19 PM 443 Views
Cool - 16/05/2022 12:10:57 AM 437 Views
So our state energy grid - 16/05/2022 01:41:50 AM 416 Views
Wow, not sure I've seen you so angry before - 16/05/2022 08:12:58 AM 456 Views
Are you off your meds? - 16/05/2022 12:35:18 PM 373 Views
I live in the world the US set up Internment Camps in living memory, I known survivors. - 16/05/2022 06:00:07 PM 415 Views
You're literally arguing with yourself. - 16/05/2022 08:00:37 PM 426 Views
That is precisely what I am afraid of - 16/05/2022 08:07:41 PM 399 Views
That can literally be flipped right on to the other side. - 16/05/2022 08:19:02 PM 404 Views
Just a reminder freedom of movement is not in the US Constitution - 16/05/2022 08:25:42 PM 430 Views
Again, you put words into my mouth that I've never said. - 16/05/2022 08:32:38 PM 424 Views
Who the fuck cares? - 17/05/2022 12:54:48 PM 454 Views
Parody account strikes back! - 17/05/2022 07:14:24 PM 390 Views
a few final thoughts - 07/05/2022 07:18:38 PM 478 Views
In some ways, it probably would've been better if Roe v Wade had never happened. - 07/05/2022 08:20:17 PM 432 Views
I can always count on you for rational discussion. *NM* - 07/05/2022 09:19:57 PM 295 Views
He really is wonderful. - 09/05/2022 04:29:00 PM 450 Views
Let me join in. Yes. Legolas is good people. *NM* - 10/05/2022 02:52:37 PM 258 Views
History and Histrionic or perhaps - 07/05/2022 10:25:23 PM 429 Views
The denominational distinctions within Christiandom aren't of concern to me... - 08/05/2022 05:09:12 PM 538 Views
There is an easy answer for you. - 09/05/2022 03:53:42 PM 441 Views

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