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Because we do not live in Paradise. Jeordam Send a noteboard - 17/06/2020 05:36:58 PM

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But you're asking the wrong questions. It's not "does the worker deserve $15/hr," but "why is the wealth being created by the worker going somewhere other than to him?" And the answer is simple: because somebody else owns the franchise. That person extracts wealth by virtue of allowing people to operate the means of production.

If our country WEREN'T captivated by the lust for money, why are there people choosing between rent and medicine each month?


"Why is the wealth being created by the worker going somewhere other than to him?" I'd say because that worker isn't generating wealth in a vacuum. Instead, that worker is generating wealth selling a product (which he didn't buy), cooking with tools (which he didn't buy), and selling to customers (which he didn't attract). That worker is not entitled to the full wealth that he is helping to generate.

And why are some people choosing between rent & medicine? The simple answer is that we don't live in a perfect world, and they are going to have to make some decisions on what is the most needed. Most of us will never live in a situation where every need is met. Almost none of us will live in a world where every want is met. The more nuanced answer is that all of the financial decisions that the individual has/is making would need to be examined to see if the choice is truly between rent and medicine.

~Jeordam

ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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I'm curious. damookster - 08/06/2020 06:59:18 PM 1168 Views
Knowledge is always uncertain, there will always be under and overreactions. Roland00 - 08/06/2020 07:06:35 PM 430 Views
I would expect so, yes. *NM* Legolas - 08/06/2020 08:00:59 PM 225 Views
That yes is for which question? Or is it for both? *NM* damookster - 08/06/2020 08:23:06 PM 229 Views
The first one. Otherwise I'd have said no and yes. *NM* Legolas - 08/06/2020 09:19:48 PM 222 Views
Yes, I believe we will... fionwe1987 - 08/06/2020 10:15:30 PM 471 Views
Why are you so invested in either closing down the country or the seriousness of the flu? Cannoli - 09/06/2020 06:37:24 PM 503 Views
Because I care about my fellow human being, cockroach. Go infest somewhere else. I'm done with you. *NM* fionwe1987 - 09/06/2020 08:35:42 PM 235 Views
Except you don't. You really, REALLY want this disease to be worse than it is. Cannoli - 12/06/2020 11:06:50 AM 469 Views
Sure. Anyone who disagrees with you wants mass poverty or mass death. No other possibility exists... fionwe1987 - 12/06/2020 02:44:08 PM 451 Views
Fionwe same as other alt-left crazies Nargs - 16/06/2020 05:24:12 PM 487 Views
I dunno what's "alt" about it. We're the mainstream. Which must scare you fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 06:06:44 PM 406 Views
Dissonance Nargs - 16/06/2020 08:02:08 PM 408 Views
Do you think it's possible to disagree, even vehemently damookster - 16/06/2020 08:14:50 PM 491 Views
I'm sure it is, in some conditions. fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 09:43:50 PM 478 Views
I am not a middle aged white man. I'm an old white man. damookster - 16/06/2020 06:15:52 PM 472 Views
Evidence is not on your side, damook *NM* Nargs - 16/06/2020 07:27:39 PM 231 Views
Much like... Jeordam - 16/06/2020 07:34:14 PM 499 Views
Statistically Insignificant Nargs - 16/06/2020 08:07:03 PM 432 Views
Stats don't tell the whole story. damookster - 16/06/2020 08:06:17 PM 425 Views
You're right but on race? Nargs - 16/06/2020 08:08:40 PM 466 Views
Yes, you're right. damookster - 16/06/2020 08:17:04 PM 419 Views
You realize that's not a contradiction, right? fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 09:49:56 PM 447 Views
A few points gban007 - 17/06/2020 09:29:15 PM 445 Views
I wasn't going to say it but... Nargs - 16/06/2020 08:17:57 PM 478 Views
Again: you really are a loathsome little ball of slime. Ghavrel - 10/06/2020 02:11:52 AM 430 Views
It's not my world, it's theirs. Cannoli - 12/06/2020 11:13:14 AM 470 Views
Burning down corporate stores and taking their stolen wealth is a moral good. *NM* Ghavrel - 15/06/2020 12:04:52 AM 233 Views
Stolen Wealth? Jeordam - 15/06/2020 04:50:59 PM 461 Views
How does one determine what is Original Sin? Roland00 - 15/06/2020 05:17:37 PM 454 Views
So then.... Jeordam - 15/06/2020 09:59:31 PM 439 Views
I'm uncertain if this is what Ghavrel meant, but I'd assume you don't need proof that slavery... fionwe1987 - 15/06/2020 07:59:07 PM 435 Views
So we're talking about reparations....? Jeordam - 15/06/2020 09:42:37 PM 454 Views
Why must money solve "all" issues? fionwe1987 - 15/06/2020 11:32:05 PM 430 Views
So then money won't... Jeordam - 16/06/2020 06:09:24 PM 436 Views
fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 06:29:59 PM 437 Views
Those aren't codified examples Jeordam - 16/06/2020 07:31:49 PM 438 Views
Well that's some special nonsense fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 09:55:42 PM 445 Views
We're having a discussion...please try and not denigrate me. Jeordam - 17/06/2020 05:26:36 PM 430 Views
But I didn't clearly state I want to denigrate you. You're inferring intent. How's that ok? fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 06:06:28 PM 440 Views
Pain and Death they *actively* choose... Jeordam - 17/06/2020 06:39:13 PM 469 Views
They make no such choice. Which is why they're out there protesting fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 07:00:25 PM 482 Views
Sigh Roland00 - 16/06/2020 08:15:12 PM 419 Views
Nah I just straight up think capitalism is evil. Reparations should be paid, though. *NM* Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 09:22:46 AM 213 Views
Fair enough. *NM* fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 02:54:11 PM 205 Views
aaah... Jeordam - 16/06/2020 06:10:16 PM 444 Views
Re: Stolen Wealth? Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 09:21:32 AM 419 Views
Rather it should be The State? *NM* damookster - 16/06/2020 12:10:59 PM 207 Views
What is "the State" fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 02:57:34 PM 422 Views
my comment was directed to Ghavrel. damookster - 16/06/2020 04:49:39 PM 423 Views
You shouldn't make assumptions... fionwe1987 - 16/06/2020 06:10:02 PM 434 Views
Lemme tell you about this cool thing called syndicalism... *NM* Ghavrel - 17/06/2020 06:46:38 AM 223 Views
There's a lot I like about that... *NM* fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 06:07:47 PM 194 Views
Syndicalisme révolutionnaire, peut-être? *NM* damookster - 17/06/2020 06:29:00 PM 189 Views
I'm actually still a reformist, believe it or not. *NM* Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:29:18 PM 212 Views
Bah *NM* damookster - 18/06/2020 03:36:20 PM 190 Views
I been thinking about the different religious sects of Himboism, suddenly ... Roland00 - 29/06/2020 01:30:09 AM 409 Views
The only state with legitimacy is the Kingdom of Heaven. *NM* Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 08:57:26 PM 198 Views
Are we talking about the Mormon Sect? Roland00 - 16/06/2020 09:06:14 PM 406 Views
My bad damookster - 16/06/2020 10:20:14 PM 436 Views
In fairness, I usually talk policy goals as a social democrat. Ghavrel - 17/06/2020 12:34:45 AM 433 Views
They The Shrike - 17/06/2020 06:29:35 PM 454 Views
damookster - 17/06/2020 06:40:30 PM 455 Views
I go by she and her, but thank you. <3 *NM* Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:45:46 PM 224 Views
I try to be very sensitive to this. damookster - 18/06/2020 03:55:01 PM 452 Views
It means a great deal to me. I can't overstate how much it means to your grandson. *NM* Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 04:04:53 PM 229 Views
Catholicism by itself is a Performance Arts Piece Roland00 - 18/06/2020 01:17:45 AM 428 Views
A Catholic?! What?! I'm an Episcopalian. Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:45:24 PM 466 Views
No thanks. Not into non-democracies. *NM* The Shrike - 17/06/2020 06:26:29 PM 204 Views
Ah a fellow Devil's Party Member. *NM* Roland00 - 18/06/2020 01:13:37 AM 189 Views
I can empathize with this view, actually, though I no longer hold it. *NM* Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:47:24 PM 227 Views
That's the debate, isn't it. Jeordam - 16/06/2020 06:16:10 PM 415 Views
Economists have been arguing this for over 400 years. Roland00 - 16/06/2020 08:22:57 PM 422 Views
You could let the market determine that, I guess. Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 08:56:23 PM 412 Views
Because we do not live in Paradise. Jeordam - 17/06/2020 05:36:58 PM 410 Views
Exactly. So the worker should own the means of production with other workers. Ghavrel - 17/06/2020 06:11:21 PM 420 Views
So my question then is.... Jeordam - 17/06/2020 06:46:11 PM 454 Views
Sigh...I just can't not. Roland00 - 18/06/2020 01:20:09 AM 370 Views
You know "talent" in the Bible is explictly referring to money, right? Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 03:43:11 PM 451 Views
Jesus also said it is easier for a camel to pass though a needle's eye... damookster - 18/06/2020 03:49:43 PM 411 Views
This is true! Ghavrel - 18/06/2020 04:04:16 PM 467 Views
Thou shalt not steal. *NM* The Shrike - 15/06/2020 11:10:34 PM 192 Views
"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel." *NM* Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 09:19:26 AM 207 Views
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" *NM* damookster - 16/06/2020 12:13:15 PM 179 Views
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. *NM* The Shrike - 16/06/2020 12:15:04 PM 197 Views
"Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you..." *NM* Ghavrel - 16/06/2020 10:15:41 PM 212 Views
Is a concern of mine gban007 - 08/06/2020 10:16:09 PM 465 Views
A natural experiment fionwe1987 - 08/06/2020 10:42:34 PM 415 Views
Yes, we probably will. But demonstrators wearing masks are not normal life. Ghavrel - 09/06/2020 07:10:31 AM 457 Views
I'm not sure that's a valid comparison. damookster - 09/06/2020 05:57:31 PM 412 Views
Agreed. These aren't comparable situations. fionwe1987 - 09/06/2020 06:09:27 PM 428 Views
Down South that is called Communism Mookie. Roland00 - 09/06/2020 06:32:06 PM 417 Views
Alabama is down south, right? aerocontrols - 09/06/2020 10:08:15 PM 431 Views
I was comparing it to a control situation of no state action in response to SARS-CoV-2. Ghavrel - 10/06/2020 02:09:19 AM 424 Views
We have all the same rules here in Seattle Bad Ash - 10/06/2020 07:45:59 PM 436 Views
I figured you aerocontrols - 09/06/2020 10:09:36 PM 423 Views
About your original question... fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 09:25:38 PM 443 Views
that is encouraging damookster - 17/06/2020 09:44:10 PM 450 Views
Re: that is encouraging fionwe1987 - 17/06/2020 10:10:34 PM 397 Views
Seems indoors with strangers is more a predictor than outdoor protests. Roland00 - 27/06/2020 02:38:07 AM 521 Views
Tips, maybe? fionwe1987 - 27/06/2020 05:10:30 AM 458 Views
Perhaps Roland00 - 27/06/2020 10:19:39 PM 367 Views
A 315 city study, BLM protests did not cause a spike in COVID cases. Roland00 - 27/06/2020 10:19:05 PM 425 Views
Sigh, here is some bad news. Case Reports and a Lab study suggests COVID may cause type 1 diabetes Roland00 - 28/06/2020 06:11:45 AM 393 Views
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