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Re: Khrushchev was the worst. Beria was actually the best. And yes, 1917? Cannoli Send a noteboard - 16/04/2020 06:21:14 PM

Aside from the misdating, I intentionally refused to go see the movie because I saw from the reviews that Khrushchev was portrayed as a more or less "good guy". This is the exact opposite of the reality.
He's the protagonist, I suppose, but he comes across as just as venal and cowardly as all of them. The film ends with a little caption that suggests he's no improvement, and that for all his suggestions of reform, he just keeps on keeping on, while mentioning his demotions of all his allies with whom he worked against Beria.


Khrushchev was responsible for millions of deaths, was incompetent, stupid and reckless. He was a committed communist who got rid of all his opponents ruthlessly (shooting Beria, getting Molotov and Kaganovich out of the Party altogether, then sidelining Zhukov, his moronic attack dog) in order to try to build worldwide communism.
They even reuse "we will bury you" in a different context in the movie, shouting it at Beria's burning corpse.
Beria, by contrast, was trying to tear down Stalin's cult of personality from day one. Already two weeks after Stalin's death newspaper editors were complaining that Beria was forcing them to cut references to Stalin everywhere. He released 1.2 million prisoners from the Gulag a couple of weeks after that. He wanted to de-collectivize agriculture and move to a mixed system like China in the 1980s. He got Polina back for Molotov. He wanted to avoid one-person rule. He appealed to the USSR to abandon trying to build a socialist state in East Germany, saying it would cost too much and Germans didn't want it anyway.

I don't really find any of that impressive. Those are also moves that could just as easily be efforts to maintain his popularity. You tear down Stalin's cult, because it's an obstacle to your own exercise of power. Paulina Molotov was another communist. Whatever happened to her was nothing she hadn't been fine with happening to others, and Molotov was a scumbag too (The film character is an ideological purist, who's not so much "good" or "innocent" as sincere and committed to the ideals and theory, and otherwise marginalized by his more venal colleagues).
Beria, alone among the leaders, spoke his mind. He is portrayed as the head of the secret police but he had lost that position in 1941. Since that time he ran the Soviet atomic project, which produced a bomb only 4 years after the first US test (yes, it was because they stole the plans, but Beria got them and got the program on track fast). Unlike Molotov, who only abstained from voting his wife to the Gulag, Beria actually disagreed openly with Stalin on multiple occasions (also, Voroshilov, the Minister of Defense, loaded his pistol and threatened to shoot the NKVD thugs who came to pick up his wife, forcing them to back down - they never returned...so Molotov...sorry, not courageous even by Stalin-era standards).
I don't think the reference was intended to mean courageous for Stalin's USSR, but courageous by Molotov's standards. He was such a sycophant and crony to Stalin, it's absolutely amazing that he did not vote guilty, when you look at his track record. (I honestly would not be surprised if he only abstained because Stalin had told him to, for the optics).
Beria also told the Politburo that the economy needed to deliver more consumer goods to Soviet citizens if it wanted to retain their support. They didn't listen to him, and so in the late 1970s people were still waiting years to get new refrigerators.
A freshman economics student could have told them as much. Giving practical advice that makes your slave state more materially and economically viable isn't exactly morality.
All of Beria's policies were aimed at stabilizing society, de-escalating the Cold War, moving to a mixed economy and making Russia a normal country. For that, he got shot by a bunch of unreconstructed Marxist fanatics. Then they turned on each other.
The movie's version gives him more credit for guts and courage and even a nasty sense of humor than it does the other members of the committee. He's certainly seen as more competent that any of them, probably even Krushchev, who ultimately wins because he cons the individual members of the committee and Zhukov into thinking he has a unanimous mandate from everyone but Beria, and Zhukov more or less provides the muscle.
Oh, finally, when Beria WAS in charge of the secret police, he ended the Terror. He stopped the wholesale executions and just shot the executioners instead.
But how much of that was because Stalin was satisfied and let it happen?
Khrushchev, by contrast, decided to reorganize the Soviet economy by creating a dual bureaucracy. Two bureaucracies are better than one! The plan was cancelled in 1965 after Brezhnev ousted him. His other big idea was to plan the "Virgin Lands" without any wind barriers. He turned millions of acres of land into useless desert. He also decided to ratchet up the heat of the Cold War, bringing the world close to nuclear annihilation on several occasions. This is why, in 1964, everyone ousted him. He was reckless, stupid and still had the blood of millions on his hands (but he never admitted that).
Wasn't he Lysenko's patron, or was that Stalin, too?
Khrushchev's destalinization was also not what Beria planned. Beria wanted to remove all cults of personality, denounce Stalin in broad terms and pretty much declare everything he did bad. Khrushchev decided to limit his attack to the 1937 Terror, when Stalin's wrath was turned mostly on Party members (usually because they knew the truth about Stalin's role in the Revolution, Trotsky's role in the Revolution, many other various crimes, or just had independent opinions). The 1925 massacres of priests, the 1928 "Promparty" sham trials and executions, the 1932-1933 Famine (not just in Ukraine under...Khrushchev, but also Russia and Kazakhstan), the 1939 Red Army purges, the 1945-6 arrests of former POWs and people who had lived under occupation, the 1948 Leningrad ring arrests, the 1949 cosmopolitan arrests, etc., all of that was just fine by Khrushchev.
There are allusions to some of that in the film, for instance, he and quite a few of the others are outraged that Beria allowed the priests to show up for Stalin's funeral, and that was final straw for Molotov. I think at one point Krushchev is wishing for another Hungarian uprising, because he knows how to crush one of those.
Finally, let me say a word about Zhukov. No one liked him. He was stupid, he was a terrible military commander and he was Stalin's lap dog. He took credit for things he didn't have any hand in (like Stalingrad and Kursk, the defense of Leningrad) and then tried to disavow the things that he really was involved in (the two spectacular failures at Rzhev). His strategy was to send people forward in great numbers into suicidal frontal attacks.

YES! THANK you. The cult of Zhukov the Military Genius, Hero of the Great Patriotic War seems to be even more difficult to root out than the myth of Stalin's competent administration. The film is kind of meh on that, he comes across as more capable than the other leading figures, but also crude and brutal. If you don't know better, you might be inclined to wonder where he's been when the terror was happening, and why he doesn't end up in charge once Beria is killed, largely by him and his men. The character trait of him being dumb and easily controlled has to be inferred simply by the fact that he essentially waits on permission to act and never takes the top slot. It doesn't help that he's played by Isaacs, instead of a more bulldog-looking thug-type. If you need to cast a Deatheater for the role, I'd have gone with Timothy Spall, first. And I couldn't help but think of the contrast between the on-screen, vigorous, irrepressible and crude Zhukov with what Western leaders who had met him during & right after the war found upon their reunion a few years later, after enduring the regime of the notoriously jealous Stalin who no longer needed him as much.

He takes credit for Stalingrad, but the plans he helped formulate for 1942 included four offensives named for planets, intended to drive the Germans entirely out of Russia. Three of the four operations were utter disasters, and the fourth came away with a single city that had already been utterly ruined and its use as an industrial center destroyed. And that only because a career staff officer in commander of the German forces bungled his handling of his armor, and disobeyed orders to surrender prematurely, precluding a relief operation. Kursk was a misnomer for the battle, since the Germans didn't give a shit about Kursk, they were trying to pinch off the Soviet salient, which would have utterly destroyed their military capacity. It ended because Hitler called off the advances in response to the Allied invasion of Italy, which in his mind, made the Balkans and Ploesti vulnerable. Since Kursk was the first town behind the final line of the German advance, the Soviet propaganda machine promptly announced that the Red Army had successfully prevented the Germans from capturing Kursk, which was credible, because Kursk DID remain in Soviet hands. Most Soviet successes came because of Hitler's prioritization of the Western Allies as the enemy, such as sending the Africa Korps to fight the British, instead of to Russia, withholding the Grossdeutschland Division in response to the Dieppe raid (which together might have made the difference at Stalingrad), or stripping Army Group Center of air & armor units in response to Overlord, enabling Bagration to succeed. The Allies threw the race to Berlin, and gave the USSR the transport capacity without which they'd have never arrived in Germany in the first place. Zhukov's military performance was about what you'd expect after Stalin had purged the military of any genuine leadership or military talent. His post-war survival further speaks volumes about Stalin's assessment of his brains and guts (specifically the lack thereof). Like Malenkov, Molotov, Krushchev, Mikoyan, Bulganin & Kaganovich, he was still around when Stalin died because he was no threat.


As a result, the worst people possible rose in power and influence after Stalin died (aside from Stalin himself, who was of course worse than all of them).

Well, it's called "The Death of Stalin" because these losers, and their fearful sycophancy even after his death, are his legacy. Even Beria's stipulated improvements only look good by comparison. Best case scenario, he ineptly opens the state up for a real revolution and overthrow of communism earlier, and we get to the current state of affairs a generation ago. Alternatively, he reads the writing on the wall quickly enough (or one of his underlings does and deposes him in order to act), and goes back to the brutal repression playbook to maintain his own power. Ultimately the problems with a communist state are fundamental to the nature of totalitarianism and materialism, and can't be excused by blaming them on the personalities involved. The problems with the USSR were not that Stalin and Krushchev fucked up communism, it was that communism created an environment conducive to "leadership" like Stalin's. What I took from this movie is not "what a bunch of bozos" but "this group of bozos is to whom one inevitably turns over the reins of power in any kind of materialist and statist society". It's funny, because there are no good guys here, and anyone who loses gets what's coming to him. Of all of Buscemi's roles, Krushchev's portrayal here most reminded me of Nucky Thompson in "Boardwalk Empire", a vicious petty asshole, usually overreaching in his attempt to be the biggest swinging dick in the room.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Khrushchev was the worst. Beria was actually the best. And yes, 1917? - 15/04/2020 07:52:57 PM 306 Views
So Nation-State murder is bad - 16/04/2020 03:31:18 AM 280 Views
I don't think anyone doubts Beria was a sexual predator - 18/04/2020 07:30:32 PM 252 Views
So let me explain my thought process. - 19/04/2020 07:43:28 PM 268 Views
We don't know for certain what he did - 20/04/2020 09:44:26 PM 255 Views
Re: Khrushchev was the worst. Beria was actually the best. And yes, 1917? - 16/04/2020 06:21:14 PM 282 Views
This movie is on my to do list. - 16/04/2020 03:21:41 AM 267 Views
Good movie, very funny in spots. - 16/04/2020 04:10:16 AM 254 Views
Armando Iannucci is the director - 16/04/2020 10:54:57 PM 285 Views

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