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Jeo, Mookie, lets go back some steps. Roland00 Send a noteboard - 26/10/2018 07:43:08 PM

Jeo, Mookie, lets go back some steps. I feel that you don't understand what happened with these students (I am not blaming you I blame the news articles, I have read the scientific paper here. Links to the pdf https://tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/07448481.2018.1515763?needAccess=true is just due to the fact we are talking past each other here and we do not share the same knowledge. I find this frustrating but this is a universal human problem )

What happened here.

#1) No one was diagnosed with PTSD
#2) No one was diagnosed with any Anxiety Disorder
#3) The students didn't make any proactive / positive statements saying I have X.

What did happen

#4) 769 Students (out of 829 students) were forced to take a 15 question survey as part of getting a grade in their Introduction to Psychology class. (Thus these students are not a universal sample of Arizona State but specifically took this class as part of their major or as an elective. Remember people interested in psychology are not like other people.)






#5) Here is the survey they took, the 15 questions, you rate these questions into one of 4 categories A) Not at all B) Rarely C) Sometimes D) Often

A)
I avoided letting myself get upset when I thought about it or was reminded of it
I tried to remove it from memory
I stayed away from reminders of it
I felt as if it hadn't happened or wasn't real
I tried not to talk about it
I was aware that I still had a lot of feelings about it, but I didn't deal with them
I tried not to think about it
My feelings about it were kind of numb

I)
I thought about it when I didn't mean to
I had trouble falling asleep or staying asleep because of pictures or thoughts about it that came into my mind
I had waves of strong feelings about it
I had dreams about it
Pictures about it popped into my mind
Other things kept making me think about it
Any reminder brought back feelings about it

Note this above is not in the original order of the IES scale for I clustered the Avoidance Questions together and the Intrusive Questions (you can't regulate your emotions / affect and they just trigger.) In IES 1 the order is different so it is less obvious to the reader that the questions have some relation / cluster.

Well there are 4 choices for each question and the point value is A) Not at all worth 0 points, B) Rarely worth 1 point C) Sometimes worth 3 points, D) Often worth 5 points.

If you scored a total of 30 points out of 75 points in this survey you are part of the 25% Election-related distress symptoms. Note this is not saying you have an anxiety disorder, or ptsd, but if you were in a doctors office and you took this questionaire in the waiting room your doctor would do follow up questions, interview, etc. Aka these questionaires can't diagnose you but they can be a "test" that provides warning signs and help the doctor quantify how intense you feel.

Note this was IES version 1 from 1979. We now use since the mid 1990s IES-R that has 22 questions, and with this questionnaire 6 questions about hyperarousal symptoms. Furthermore IES revised has 5 choices (0 = Not at all; 1 = A little bit; 2 = Moderately; 3 = Quite a bit; 4 = Extremely) and the difference between choices is 1 point (0/1/2/3/4/) instead of 2 points (0/1/3/5)

Note why did the study pick 30 as the amount on IES version 1 for there is a debate in the medical literature of which number is bet. This is because IES is just finding a correlation and not causation, and in their studies there are different "confidence" intervals based on if you score 24, 26, 30, 44, 46, etc out of the possible score of 75.

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Put another way no one was diagnosed in this 769 sample size survey. Anyone that said this is indicative of PTSD did not understand the story or was embellishing it for media purposes.

Literally from the scientific study paper.


LIMITATIONS

The study has several limitations.
The survey was given approximately 2-3 months after the election suggesting that distress symptoms remained high across the period from the election to the inauguration;
however, we cannot rule out the potential impact of other intermediate events, and we cannot know the longterm consequences for mental or physical health of this postevent distress.
We were not able to assess pre-event symptomatology, but it is interesting to compare symptom levels to other samples.
For example, lower event-related avoidance in response to general stressful life events (M ¼ 8.90) have been documented in otherwise healthy college student populations, compared to average avoidance symptoms in the present sample (M ¼ 11.34).




This study is good data, but useless data as it is now. It is wide data but not very deep, and no counterfactuals that would challenge the data. Furthermore this data has not been replicated with a different sample run by different people.

Why is this data news? I would argue it is not useful news, but it is news for this is the first published data like this. This makes this not good science, but news does not care about what is good science or what is data that has not been replicated, they see the word FIRST and they want to publish for that is what news culture is, due to the incentive structure of news culture.

Note all the people in their news stories that said the word "millennial" instead of an age range, are trying to sell you something, create outrage, opinions inside of you like a mind virus. Furthermore most of these articles were quoting the washingtion examiner (a 2nd hand source) and not looking at the original paper or study's authors.

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Back to my question, now that we all agree that no one was diagnosed with PTSD or an Anxiety Disorder, but a biased sample (college students who took a psychology course) scored "high" on a 15 questionnaire they just had to take for class

(and was it really high? Since they only had 4 choices and choice 3 was worth 3 points and 10 out of 15 times you pick choice 3 triggers the number 30 threshold cut off.)

...are these people an outrage, why does it trigger scorn, cause irritation, frustration, etc?

Another thing to point out is IES was not meant to be used in this manner. Some people may not want to talk about politics not due to anxiety, but because it is socially frustrating and sometimes costly. I may choose A) I tried not to talk about it and rate that a 5 and B)
I stayed away from reminders of it because I can't change the outcome, it is usually a waste of time arguing with people, blah, blah, blah, so on and so on for often arguing about politics is a waste of time.


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Yeah I spent way too much time and on this "news subject" and this very limited scientific study.

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25% of millennial college students claim PTSD from the 2016 election - 23/10/2018 01:24:10 AM 859 Views
Apparently - 23/10/2018 02:12:54 AM 494 Views
Yeah I thought some of my labels might be wrong. - 23/10/2018 02:42:26 AM 385 Views
25% of baby boomers will share anything on the internet *NM* - 23/10/2018 04:55:23 AM 182 Views
do you have PTSD from the election too? *NM* - 23/10/2018 05:35:18 AM 203 Views
Probably not but I am sure Joel does. Mwahahahaha. - 23/10/2018 02:04:32 PM 366 Views
One misses his brevity. *NM* - 23/10/2018 04:25:24 PM 214 Views
No I don't have PTSD from the election. - 23/10/2018 07:07:21 PM 344 Views
So is it only the college students who are pathetic? - 23/10/2018 01:14:28 PM 369 Views
apparently this study was focused on college students - 23/10/2018 01:45:35 PM 393 Views
*shrugs* - 23/10/2018 02:53:40 PM 381 Views
We don't. I certainly don't. *NM* - 23/10/2018 04:23:55 PM 204 Views
If it helps, I came across an article recently... - 23/10/2018 06:49:22 PM 397 Views
I'm not sure we do. - 23/10/2018 07:14:46 PM 388 Views
Did you tell mook that? Seems he has trouble telling the difference. - 23/10/2018 07:34:16 PM 404 Views
and your point is....? - 23/10/2018 07:50:41 PM 356 Views
Sucks to be them. Losers. - 23/10/2018 02:03:38 PM 377 Views
Nope these are Gen Z (mostly) - 23/10/2018 07:16:46 PM 365 Views
That's not what that link says. - 23/10/2018 06:44:21 PM 413 Views
But it did suggest they are more likely to be diagnosed PTSD in the future as a result - 23/10/2018 06:51:47 PM 370 Views
And? That would be the case for any kind of 'event-related distress'. - 23/10/2018 07:08:13 PM 371 Views
Easy target because so many of them are horrible. *NM* - 23/10/2018 07:30:05 PM 214 Views
Easy target because every generation likes to pick on the youngsters of the next generation. - 23/10/2018 08:09:58 PM 374 Views
Bah! - 23/10/2018 08:13:23 PM 360 Views
It is what all the news accounts of the study say however. - 23/10/2018 07:48:56 PM 363 Views
So what you're saying is, you should be blaming the liberal media instead of liberal students? - 23/10/2018 07:57:53 PM 353 Views
It is a race to the bottom - 23/10/2018 08:11:39 PM 364 Views
just blame the libs. it's easier *NM* - 23/10/2018 08:12:30 PM 213 Views
Is it true though? - 23/10/2018 09:04:10 PM 386 Views
blame whomever you want... - 23/10/2018 09:08:14 PM 361 Views
I blame the "destructive spirit" - 23/10/2018 10:17:52 PM 413 Views
What's the mental disorder for failure to understand blended with glee at other's suffering? - 23/10/2018 09:51:00 PM 368 Views
It must be a heavy burden - 23/10/2018 09:54:56 PM 375 Views
The first noble truth is life is suffering - 23/10/2018 10:24:09 PM 373 Views
Roland, are you trying to redeem me... - 23/10/2018 11:45:42 PM 364 Views
Nope - 24/10/2018 12:14:06 AM 353 Views
My daughter got married on the 14th. That was full of joy. - 24/10/2018 12:59:10 AM 357 Views
Not really - 23/10/2018 11:13:26 PM 391 Views
You are such a sanctimonius prick - 23/10/2018 11:42:04 PM 371 Views
I seem to have hit a nerve - 24/10/2018 01:05:47 AM 387 Views
You misunderstand - 24/10/2018 01:15:55 AM 384 Views
Re: You misunderstand - 31/10/2018 03:01:11 PM 387 Views
Mookie please don't put words in my mouth / project my intentions onto others - 24/10/2018 01:16:52 AM 372 Views
Fair enough. I won’t use you as a reference again. *NM* - 24/10/2018 01:24:00 AM 212 Views
Feel free to use me as a reference - 24/10/2018 01:31:53 AM 358 Views
some suffering deserves ridicule - 29/10/2018 07:45:50 PM 353 Views
Really? - 31/10/2018 03:03:36 PM 358 Views
At least from where I'm sitting.... - 26/10/2018 04:31:35 PM 365 Views
Bingo - 26/10/2018 04:43:07 PM 384 Views
How will your "outrage" change the situation? - 26/10/2018 05:44:00 PM 347 Views
From here... - 26/10/2018 06:04:06 PM 357 Views
It won't. - 26/10/2018 06:04:52 PM 343 Views
Jeo, Mookie, lets go back some steps. - 26/10/2018 07:43:08 PM 359 Views
And that is the problem. Where you sit doesn't afford you enough insight, apparently... - 31/10/2018 02:58:12 PM 334 Views
Aaaaaahhhh......things begin to focus. - 31/10/2018 05:29:25 PM 326 Views

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