That as you mentioned, we may never get the answer to...but there it is.
View original post- Was there other relevant information used for the FISA application against Carter Page? How large a role would the Steele dossier on its own have played in the approval? The memo says 'an essential part' but that's not exactly specific.
Well, it is on the record that without that dossier, they wouldn't have pursued getting a FISA approval. That tells me that if there was anything else, it was not substantial enough to warrant the paperwork.
View original post- How much detail is usually submitted in FISA applications about the provenance of the information used?
One of those things that we probably would never know. Especially, since the best way to know that would be a compare/contrast study against other FISA documents completely unrelated (but in a similar vein).
View original post- How realistic is the memo's noble notion that FISA applications 'should include information potentially favorable to the target of the FISA application that is known to the government'? Does the FBI really make a habit of being so generous towards people they want to spy on, knowing that the whole application process is secret and their target won't find out anyway? Pretty important question which might also make a big difference to how people feel about the FISA process in general...
How would we (the public) gauge the nobility of this? This would be pretty much up to that secret court. In the judge's opinion, that application would have to include that info...
View original post- If this FISA application targeting Carter Page was done merely to discredit Trump by a biased FBI, how is it that it was renewed multiple times under president Trump, with Trump appointees Dana Boente and Rod Rosenstein, as per the memo, signing the requests for renewal on behalf of the DoJ?
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that either someone had an ax to grind (regardless of who nominated them to the job), or they just signed it. I work in a GMP job, and I am constantly telling my team to read what they are signing. Don't just sign it because someone else signed it. Don't just assume that "everything was caught". I would suspect that there is at least a decent chance of this being the case here. I'm sure that there's at least some thought in the office that "It was approved before. This whole 90day renewal thing is a waste of time. It will stop when they find something." Given the media coverage of (what is already assumed is) collusion and obstruction of justice...
View original post- The Mother Jones article of October 30th 2016, which as per the memo first revealed to the general public that Steele was a source for the FBI, also correctly mentions that the financing of his dossier 'switched to a source allied with the Democrats'. Even if we accept that the original FISA approval of October 21st was made by people who didn't possess that information, and if we accept that they would have ruled differently if they had possessed it, still it's clear that as from October 30th, the financing point was publicly available knowledge. Yet the FISA approval was renewed 3 more times. Why is that, were the judges approving it really so clueless?
I don't know what to say man. Clueless? Lazy? Corrupt? Who knows. Either way, it demonstrates that there is something wrong with the entire way that this was handled, and the fact that there was so much pressure to keep it quiet is another symptom of the same disease.
View original post- The memo notes that Steele was 'a longtime FBI source' at the time he worked on the dossier, and that the DNC/Clinton campaign funded this research via a law firm. It does not say, and having searched a bit around I also don't see this anywhere else, that when Steele passed his dossier to the FBI, he had any instruction to do so from Clinton, the DNC or the law firm. Some sources explicitly say the opposite, that he decided to send his information to the FBI on his own volition. Is there any proof that Clinton or the DNC did in fact direct him to do so?
Whether the DNC or Clinton Campaign told him to submit it or not is neither here nor there. They paid him to do opposition research. That "research" is completely uncorroborated. It's not research. It's gossip. They paid a rumormonger to come up with something. It was taken as fact, and used to get secret surveillance of a US citizen. Next thing you know, it is taken as fact and broadcast the American Public as fact. It still serves the DNC & Clinton Campaign. It just pretty much cements Trump's whole "Drain the Swamp" platform...wouldn't you say?
View original post
View original postI can see why the Democrats are scrambling and doing everything that they can to discredit it or frame it differently. The DNC & Clinton Campaign, along with their inside help, were/are trying anything and everything.
View original postThe DNC and Clinton campaign were funding opposition research, like everybody does in American politics. As shown above, them being linked to this particular opposition research dossier was public knowledge since at least October 30th 2016, before the election, we didn't need this memo for that. The memo doesn't actually show them doing anything beyond that, as far as I can see.
The problem (as I stated before) that this isn't opposition research. It's gossip construction. It was taken as fact, and used to get something.
View original postDon't get me wrong, the memo does certainly raise questions about the FBI's FISA application into Page and more generally their investigation into Trump's links with Russia, and I do think that those questions would need to be answered in a satisfactory way (although those answers may not be as easy to declassify as the memo itself). I might add that even liberals might appreciate the opportunity to critically review the whole FISA process. But the memo doesn't actually answer too many questions by itself.
You are right. It brings up more questions then it answers. This entire memo goes to show that there is something going on...and one party in particular is fighting tooth and nail to not have it come out. That says something don't you think? This isn't about "protecting Trump". This is about hamstringing the Russia investigation (which is already tainted from the core). This is about the fact that rumors and gossip were taken as fact and used to spy on a US Citizen. There was no corroboration. The checks and balances built into the system didn't work. The motivations behind the entire issue were left out of the application, even though they are very much pertinent to the entire situation.
And despite all of that...it proceeded forward. And one party didn't want it brought to light.
What does that tell you?
~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
So that memo was released....
02/02/2018 06:59:35 PM
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Just reading the memo is indeed the best approach, I just did too.
02/02/2018 08:20:01 PM
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I find it hard to believe the Obama appointees in the DoJ did not know where the dossier came from *NM*
02/02/2018 09:17:06 PM
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As do I. Was that supposed to have any relevance to my post? *NM*
02/02/2018 09:34:57 PM
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Re: As do I. Was that supposed to have any relevance to my post?
02/02/2018 10:37:21 PM
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It does bring up more questions...
02/02/2018 10:53:01 PM
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With over 34,000 FISA applications just 12 (not 12,000 or 1200 or 120) were denied.
03/02/2018 04:07:24 PM
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Correction: "just under", not "over" 34,000
03/02/2018 10:08:54 PM
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I do find it very telling how many members of the media are suddenly opposed to transparency
02/02/2018 08:51:28 PM
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So you are saying the House Intelligence Committee SHOULD release Schiffs rebuttal of Nunes' lies?
03/02/2018 03:58:13 AM
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I seem to recall much incredulity when Trump claimed he was being wire tapped
02/02/2018 09:15:14 PM
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Er. Let me see if I'm getting this right.
02/02/2018 09:34:14 PM
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They did somehow tap Flynn
02/02/2018 10:44:55 PM
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Keep in mind Sessions wanted Rosenstein to resign
02/02/2018 11:28:52 PM
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Why would SESSIONS want Rosenstein fired?
03/02/2018 05:22:16 AM
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It was on a list of about 40 Sessions wanted fired. Probably becuase he is a lib *NM*
04/02/2018 12:31:13 AM
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No, they tapped the Russian Ambassador to the US, per SOP; not the FBIs fault Flynn called him.
03/02/2018 03:59:54 AM
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no but were they listening when he spoke to Trump?
02/02/2018 11:25:30 PM
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Nope, just listening to the Russian Ambassador when Flynn repeatedly called during the campaign
03/02/2018 04:11:27 AM
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Actually, also, seems I missed a fairly crucial point until now, as did others here...
03/02/2018 01:15:10 AM
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If working with a forgein agent is such a sin...
02/02/2018 11:22:41 PM
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You're saying oppo research should have its own kind of Jones Act?
03/02/2018 12:51:27 AM
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No I am saying that it seen as crimianl when one side does and no big deal when the other does it
03/02/2018 01:15:22 AM
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I believe campaign aid from foreign private citizens OR govt is equally illegal, FWIW
03/02/2018 04:28:14 AM
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Actually, JEB BUSH hired the former MI6 agents firm to do oppo research on Trump during the primary
03/02/2018 04:03:08 AM
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Sometimes I forget how right-wing most everyone here is. The memo itself is just nonsense.
03/02/2018 02:44:16 AM
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Ironic, since Republicans Mueller, Comey and Wray threatened to resign over Ws warrantless taps
03/02/2018 04:07:10 AM
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I can't speak for the present with too much information is unknown
03/02/2018 04:51:14 AM
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The memo is clearly not nonsense to the extent it shows abuse within the FBI.
03/02/2018 10:15:49 PM
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Fruit of the poisonous tree wouldn't apply here, though.
04/02/2018 05:40:44 AM
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I would certainly argue it
05/02/2018 04:55:18 PM
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I think you'd win! Insofar as you'd get the FISA warrant excluded.
07/02/2018 07:01:42 AM
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Actually, everyone I have seen exposing the material falsehoods Nunes invented are Republicans
03/02/2018 03:54:03 AM
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Dear Joel,
03/02/2018 04:31:18 AM
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I have
03/02/2018 05:09:19 AM
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Don't feed the Joel.
03/02/2018 10:17:12 PM
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Turn him to any cause of policy, The Gordian Knot of it he will tangle, Familiar as his garter
03/02/2018 10:51:36 PM
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I sort of want to like this, but your answers keep getting weirder and weirder *NM*
06/02/2018 09:17:42 PM
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WSJ source
03/02/2018 05:04:04 AM
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You believe the commie liberals at Rupert Murdochs Wall Street Journal?
03/02/2018 05:14:08 AM
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well as long as you have an unnaamed source it must be true *NM*
04/02/2018 01:05:36 AM
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What is yours?
04/02/2018 04:30:51 PM
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We are having completely different conversations right now, and completely different things we are
04/02/2018 11:38:35 PM
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Yeah, look what happens when you shit on the Fourth Amendment.
03/02/2018 09:09:00 PM
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Right, because the President of the United States is just a private citizen
04/02/2018 08:08:32 AM
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The point was that the people in power want the Fourth Amendment to apply, or not, as they see fit.
06/02/2018 08:16:19 PM
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Does anybody still cares about the Nunes memo? I ask for the Schiff memo was released?
26/02/2018 11:14:51 PM
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