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Some good thoughts. Aemon Send a noteboard - 16/02/2010 01:50:07 AM
Why destroy all life over and over again:

I'm sure this point will be fully clarified at some point in the final part of the trilogy, but my guess would be they came out on the winning side of a long past conflict and this was their solution to always stay on top.


Yeah, I agree. I honestly never even questioned this part. It seemed obvious. Over a period of many millennia, races will develop. If you're an all-powerful race who enjoy being all-powerful, you can't let them surpass you. When they're a threat, you wipe them out. Much like the Quarians tried to do with the Geth. The only real question here is why the reapers don't bother to advance themselves (instead being content to just stay ahead of the game), and that question is more or less answered by the "Harvest" line of thinking. Instead of putting time and effort into developing oneself, just go to sleep for fifty thousand years, wake up, and incorporate any worthy developments into yourself.

How do they decide when to wipe out all life again:

Looking at the various races it seems the older, longer living species, have the strongest biotic abilities. From the sound of it only the Asari and a few rare Krogan are naturally biotics, most other species only gain biotic abilities after exposure to Element Zero. From what we saw of sovereign with the indoctrination, and Harbingers control of the collectors, it would seem that they have abilities that would be beyond even the scope of their technology. So the only likely explenation is their using biotic powers.


Eh. . .perhaps. Nothing wrong with the theory, but I don't think there's anything that supports that. The current crop of races is but one among many that the Reapers have cultivated and destroyed. Who's to say any of the others had Biotics? I don't believe it ever says that the Harbinger controls his minions through use of Biotics, does it? Even if there's evidence that the protheans/collectors had Biotics (and there might be) that's still just two race revolutions among many. Maybe the Reapers are indeed impressed/scared by the unknown potential of Biotics, and harvest races after they begin to develop them, but I don't think there's much evidence for it.

Why build a new reaper:

After sovereign was destroyed they were basically trapted in dark space, so it would seem they needed a new actual reaper to open the way for their return, as the collectors alone couldn't do it perhaps. This obviously failing the reapers awaken and just take off and fly in from dark space the old fashioned way. Obviously this wasn't their first choice, and i'm sure the expended energy will keep them from being at the top of their came from the very start, and they also won't have control of the mass relays since they never took the citadel.


This is a good thought. I didn't really bother asking myself why / how the Reapers made the trip from dark space. I had assumed that the destruction of Sovereign alerted them to problems on the homefront, and they immediately ignited their improbability drives and headed for home, and simply took a couple years to arrive. I like your explanation better, though. Why build one Reaper? To act as an inside man. Another shot at opening the door, now that they understand the capabilities and limitations of current galactic defenses.

Furthermore, I like your idea because it gives a decent reason for weakened Reapers, which are obviously necessary. Sleeping for 50k years would probably drain their power, and a cross-universe trek would likely put further strain on their systems. This could definitely account for an extreme weakening of weapon and shielding systems, and give Shepard and company a fighting chance. I really hope they don't spread them thin over the galaxy, though, and put a new Reaper at the end of every level. I don't want them to each be a weak miniboss of the day. Not just a Scion among husks, or whatever. We first saw the Reapers as epic machine gods, and that's how I'd like to see them on the battlefield. With the exception of ONE OR TWO bosses maybe, I'd rather the Reapers were just story, and not fought at all. Basically, I think the Reapers are awesome, and am afraid that they'll have to be greatly minimized in order to allow the player to fight them. I don't want that.

Why design a human reaper:

The most common reasoning most people agree on, other then the shock factor, is that since shepard was a human and he caused the destruction of sovereign then humans were the superio race to design themselves off of.


I actually don't care for this line of thinking at all. Are the Reapers REALLY incapable of determining desirable qualities for themselves, without resorting to some sort of medieval trial-by-combat classification system? Thinking of the Reapers as Cyborgs presents two realistic reasons to harvest aliens.

1) They need raw genetic material. They're part organic, and organic parts die, so they need new tissue.

2) They seek to analyze individuals for beneficial traits. Perhaps one in a million humans has a super immune system, for example. They harvest them all to examine them all, and incorporate desirable trains into themselves.

I'm ok with either of those, but not "you defeated us in what was clearly a complete fluke, but that means you must be the bestest, so we want to be just like you!"

What I also think plays a roll in it all though is that even from the start with the collectors plague not effecting humans we are shown that humans are different then other alien races. I believe it's stated that humans have a more diverse genetic background so they didn't engineer the virus to affect humans, and perhaps this makes them the ideal candidate to form a reaper out of as it makes human goo the easiest to work with.


I can definitely see how that would make them the most interesting species to the Reapers, particularly if what I was saying about sifting a population for interesting new traits to add to themselves is correct. I don't see that it provides a reason to shape a Reaper like a human, though. That still just seems silly.

Again going back to the idea that the reapers want biotics, I think it would then be believable that for a reaper to be as powerful as possible the would need to combine both organic and non-organic traits. You mix the organic side to gain the biotic abilities such as indoctination, and the non-organic side in the form of highly advanced technology.


Could be, but again, I see no evidence to hint in this direction.

As for the form of the human reaper, I don't think what we saw is what the final form would look like. Looking at concept art for Sovereign it showed that the bottom of the ship actually more closesly resembled the face of the original species thought to be prothean. The tenticle face and all, but then the collectors being evolved from protheans and it being stated they couldn't be used to form a reaper, it could be sovereign was based off of a different race, or that all reapers get the same outer top shell so that they would appear somewhat similar regardless of what race they come from once fully developed.


If I see them as Cyborgs, I can understand them needing organic tissue, for reasons I stated above, and in other places in this thread. I no longer take issue with them processing people. Still, though, I just can't think of any GOOD reason to shape a Reaper like a person, even in an intermediate shape. I completely don't buy the argument that they're doing it out of respect for someone who managed to defeat one of their number. That notion seems antiquated and ridiculously simplistic for beings as powerful as the Reapers.

The only possible reason at all that I can think of for them to shape themselves like a person is if they use civilization as one giant experiment in evolution. They ignore the universe for 50k years, then come back, and change themselves into whatever's workin' for the current state of things. That still seems to ascribe a certain humbleness to the Reapers that I never saw in game, though. I can't see them following along in the wake of evolutionary randomness. They seem like the sort to pick and choose their attributes for good reason.

What will they do now:

I think from the end of ME:2 it's clear that the reapers have given up on gaining control of the citadel and the mass relays after suffering defeats in both ME:1 and 2, and will just fly straight into the galaxy from dark space.


Yep, that sure seems to be what they're about these days. ;)

This is probably the only reason that organics will stand a chance in ME:3. As many reapers as their are, and as advanced as their technology is, they will still have to face opposition in a way that is completely contrary to their carefully laid cycles that they have repeated for so long.


Perhaps. I like the energy drain theory though. I can't imagine they'll be overly bewildered by the tactics of the current batch of aliens. They've been fighting various races for millions of years, after all. They're not fighting on unfamiliar terms, they've just lost their element of surprise. They might not have it quite as easy, but it's nothing new, and (if they were all at full power), they still have unstoppable force. One of their number almost defeated the combined races, after all. Without some other explanation thrown into the mix, I don't think that "they're doing things differently this time" is enough to explain a complete defeat, should it happen.

Anyways, Just a few thoughts. I hate when I don't find a story point believable in an otherwise good story so hopefully they bring it all together in a coherent mannor. If not then I'll just go off of my own little story I guess!


Yep, good thoughts. I liked reading your opinions, and apologize for the rambling nature of my response. If something didn't make sense, just ignore it. I probably can't explain it anyway. :P
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Re: The final verdict - 22/02/2010 09:01:53 PM 1205 Views
Explanation for death - 23/02/2010 02:00:16 AM 1199 Views
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Re: He got taken by the bugs during the biotic bubble sequence? - 23/02/2010 08:03:46 AM 1227 Views
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Re: Huh, I never got that. I only got one kind of bug. - 23/02/2010 04:29:46 PM 1146 Views
I had no bugs of any sort. *NM* - 23/02/2010 05:15:32 PM 676 Views
A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 06:40:35 AM 1290 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 12:28:29 PM 1124 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 04:57:43 PM 1178 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 28/02/2010 12:34:31 AM 1227 Views
I suppose. - 28/02/2010 03:29:23 AM 1208 Views
A vital part of role-playing is forcing the player to deal with the consequences of their actions - 27/02/2010 11:53:56 PM 1458 Views
Admittedly, my post was somewhat stream-of-consciousness. - 28/02/2010 03:28:02 AM 1151 Views
That's more understandable. - 28/02/2010 05:58:59 AM 1170 Views
Yeah, the tradeoff already works just fine. - 28/02/2010 06:05:44 AM 1178 Views
ok that's weird - 10/03/2010 06:52:39 PM 1197 Views

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