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My thoughts, crippled by not having played the game Cymbaline Send a noteboard - 03/02/2010 04:52:26 AM
Right you are about not playing the game, though there are two facets to it. The first, like you remember, is the perceived shift away from being an RPG. It's hard, or at the very least a subject you could argue on, to define what constitutes an "RPG" in the video game-related sense. As for things that typically go hand in hand with the genre, I'd say I more or less agree with your list. To address what I think you missed:

Equipment - One I don't believe you mentioned, and one that I've heard has been heavily revamped (read: almost entirely eliminated) in such a fashion that I suspect I'd call it the opposite of an improvement

Exploration - For me, this is a big one. One of the things I loved about the first game was wandering around the space station, talking to all these crazy people from other races and planets, and generally feeling like I was living in another world that was full of people. The Mako sections go under this heading, and definitely could have used improvement, but I'd have opted for improvement, not elimination. I've heard there are some side quests you can run, but that the whole "huge open area and lots of side quests that can be going on at the same time" aspect of the game has been scaled back significantly, if not eliminated outright.

To reiterate what I've heard other people say, it's like they heard all of the complaints against the game - crappy inventory management and equipment choices, boring Mako segments - and rather than improve them, they just eliminated them. Those were things that I actually really like about the RPG genre (equipment and exploration), and to see them axed like that does not make me enthusiastic.

Ultimately, I think that you or anyone else who is upset about the perceived move away from RPG towards shooter should give it a shot first, Cymbaline.


If a friend brings it over (which won't happen, since I'm the only person I know in real life that's even vaguely interested in the franchise), I'm willing to give it a play. I'm not going to spend $60 on it, though (particularly after having been burned by Uncharted 2, which I think will share a key fault with ME2).

Oh yeah, if you read my other post you know that I talked to the producer for a little while. One of the questions I asked him was if he had an answer for some of my friends who were leery of the game because of the shift towards shooter. He advised me that "they" (and I was thinking of you, Cymbaline) should avoid the run-and-gun classes, like the soldier, and try the others, like the infiltrator, biotic, etc. They tend to be less action and less FPS, and play more similarly to a traditional RPG. Straight from the horses' mouth, so take it with a grain of salt, but hey.


This is actually my other problem with the game - the shift toward being an FPS. I know that that genre moves units like nobody's business, and hey, they're in the business of making a dollar, but there is no better way to turn me off of a title than to throw FPS action into the mix.

I hate FPSes. I loathe them. The long story, should anyone care, is that I played them - primarily Quake, Quake 2 (by far the leader), Quake 3, and Counterstrike - almost nonstop for two years, and then fairly frequently for another two. I have burned myself out on the genre completely. When I was little, the only bread my mom would make sandwiches out of was wheat bread. To this day, I can't get a piece of wheat bread past my throat. Same thing. I'm not saying that FPS games suck (though I do think the FPS genre is one of the most stale, overdone, lowest-common-denominator, and innovation-free segments of the video game world, but that's another story), but what I am saying is that I do not like it, and I will not like it even if it's good, and even if it's great. It's still an FPS. Some people don't listen to rap, some people don't eat Mexican, some people don't watch TV; I don't play FPSes. They are like digging a ditch or watching grass grow or getting punched in the back repeatedly - they are the very opposite of fun.

Which brings me back to the producer's comment: I suffered through the combat in the first - suffered, as I absolutely hated it - so that I could level up, get new equipment, explore, do side quests, and see the story through. When I hear that the second game has ratcheted up the elements I hate to the point that they're now dominant and eliminated a significant portion of what I endured that shit for, I'm not interested in playing anymore. Maybe the story is more taut and even more well-executed. Maybe the character advancement is intact and refined. It doesn't matter, because the FPS still overrides everything. Even if the biotic plays more like an RPG, it's still an FPS. I do not buy that it's that different. You still hide behind crates, you still try to put enemies in the center of your crosshairs, you still shoot people. I played a biotic in the first game (if my memory serves), and I did not enjoy combat in the least. From everything I have read, Mass Effect moved from 1/3 FPS & 2/3 RPG to 1/3 RPG and 2/3 FPS. That is the difference between playing and not playing for me.
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Why not? Let's have a Mass Effect thread. - 02/02/2010 05:02:32 PM 3609 Views
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Oh that was wonderful. - 03/02/2010 11:29:39 PM 1158 Views
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I didn't even realize that's who he was. - 02/02/2010 08:44:07 PM 1400 Views
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And other famous voices too... - 13/02/2010 02:41:38 PM 1320 Views
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The story of Matt-Shep and his many women. - 03/02/2010 04:44:57 AM 1341 Views
Re: The story of Matt-Shep and his many women. - 03/02/2010 05:40:12 PM 1205 Views
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Does she take the helmet off? *NM* - 04/02/2010 07:57:18 PM 714 Views
Answer: - 04/02/2010 08:26:38 PM 1220 Views
Re: Answer: - 04/02/2010 10:43:09 PM 1226 Views
Re: Answer: - 05/02/2010 12:48:04 AM 1233 Views
I went simple - Miranda. - 07/02/2010 06:32:25 AM 1205 Views
Which reminds me that I always wondered... - 07/02/2010 11:54:14 AM 1318 Views
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Morinth might be into that - 15/02/2010 06:41:12 AM 1351 Views
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I was lucky enough to meet the game's producer... (No spoilers) - 02/02/2010 10:58:59 PM 1435 Views
No spoilers here either, as per my rules. Regarding the ammo: - 03/02/2010 04:51:54 AM 1258 Views
On limited resources... - 03/02/2010 04:33:10 PM 1264 Views
I think it adds depth to the combat, reduces "pew-pew" spam. - 03/02/2010 04:43:04 PM 1330 Views
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Could well be. - 03/02/2010 04:52:49 AM 1152 Views
Re: Could well be. - 03/02/2010 05:56:52 AM 1191 Views
Yeah. Blech. - 03/02/2010 06:04:35 AM 1297 Views
Yeah, the only decent deals I've found there - 03/02/2010 07:59:23 AM 1265 Views
I don't know why.... - 03/02/2010 08:14:50 AM 1223 Views
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I agree with you, and am enjoying the Vanguard so far. - 03/02/2010 02:33:06 AM 1227 Views
My thoughts, crippled by not having played the game - 03/02/2010 04:52:26 AM 1471 Views
From someone with the same dislike of FPS's - Spoiler Free - 16/02/2010 10:44:42 PM 1238 Views
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Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 04/02/2010 04:11:23 AM 1175 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 04/02/2010 04:59:54 AM 1228 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 04/02/2010 06:16:29 AM 1332 Views
Well. . .somewhat, I guess. - 04/02/2010 06:43:02 AM 1353 Views
Re: Well. . .somewhat, I guess. - 04/02/2010 03:32:26 PM 1290 Views
You know what? I'll actually buy that. I appreciate the explanation. - 04/02/2010 06:30:37 PM 1109 Views
A couple of more things...... - 16/02/2010 12:41:19 AM 1347 Views
Some good thoughts. - 16/02/2010 01:50:07 AM 1294 Views
Re: Some good thoughts. - 16/02/2010 06:54:59 PM 1170 Views
Re: Well. . .somewhat, I guess. - 04/02/2010 10:42:11 PM 1263 Views
Mine - 13/02/2010 02:46:41 PM 1222 Views
Yuss! - 22/02/2010 08:08:41 PM 1251 Views
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Nice. I'm playing through on Insanity now, and I think it's a good challenge. - 05/02/2010 02:17:02 AM 1188 Views
Whats your character build? - 05/02/2010 02:45:31 PM 1447 Views
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Re: You put a lot of thought into that. - 05/02/2010 04:00:26 PM 1349 Views
The game was too easy - 13/02/2010 02:48:10 PM 1159 Views
A moment that made me laugh pretty hard. - 05/02/2010 01:06:47 AM 1321 Views
LOL yeah *NM* - 22/02/2010 08:11:30 PM 693 Views
Ok, so male or female Shepherd? - 05/02/2010 01:50:23 AM 1212 Views
Hm. This brings up a thought. - 05/02/2010 01:52:37 AM 1153 Views
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Dam, I really wanted to bed Mordin (Only one "i" there) *NM* - 05/02/2010 02:46:19 AM 661 Views
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Re: Agreed, on some of those counts. - 05/02/2010 07:43:20 AM 1312 Views
Yeah - 13/02/2010 02:51:44 PM 1305 Views
Male so far. I plan on playing the female Shepard next playthrough. *NM* - 05/02/2010 03:25:00 AM 735 Views
I think I'll do fem on my third playthrough. - 05/02/2010 03:33:56 AM 1215 Views
Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 07/02/2010 06:30:25 AM 1136 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 07/02/2010 09:07:17 AM 1324 Views
Hm, that's interesting. - 07/02/2010 03:31:52 PM 1230 Views
Do you know... - 07/02/2010 03:46:59 PM 1143 Views
Re: Do you know... - 07/02/2010 04:31:29 PM 1220 Views
Awesome. Thanks! *NM* - 07/02/2010 04:40:59 PM 716 Views
Yeah, that's what I did. - 07/02/2010 06:37:50 PM 1093 Views
Re: Yeah, that's what I did. - 08/02/2010 03:44:52 PM 1095 Views
Hmmm... - 09/02/2010 03:48:48 PM 1171 Views
Strange. - 09/02/2010 04:19:04 PM 1214 Views
me too - 13/02/2010 03:01:05 PM 1211 Views
Did you do Legion's loyalty mission? - 15/02/2010 05:52:36 AM 1307 Views
I did, for what it's worth. - 15/02/2010 07:26:38 AM 1235 Views
Gah. Then I wonder if loyalty of the rest of the crew has something to do with it. - 15/02/2010 04:20:13 PM 1201 Views
That could definitely be the case. - 15/02/2010 04:30:06 PM 1185 Views
Maybe Joker flew slowly. - 09/02/2010 04:22:38 PM 1211 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 07/02/2010 03:42:05 PM 1203 Views
Yea, I had one hull upgrade left before going in - 07/02/2010 03:49:57 PM 1087 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 13/02/2010 02:55:48 PM 1248 Views
My first time through and all squad members survived. - 16/02/2010 03:09:46 AM 1262 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 19/02/2010 10:16:28 PM 1182 Views
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Re: I didn't see that one coming - 24/02/2010 10:23:03 AM 1179 Views
I have come across a big problem. - 07/02/2010 06:53:36 PM 1250 Views
Re: I have come across a big problem. - 08/02/2010 03:41:16 PM 1178 Views
Adept seems rather fun... - 08/02/2010 03:49:23 PM 1132 Views
Want FREE Mass Effect 2 DLC? ME 2! (har, har) Bioware bonus goodies detailed inside. - 09/02/2010 07:03:23 PM 1365 Views
Now if only the DLC armors didn't have helmets. - 09/02/2010 07:26:47 PM 1154 Views
I did that for about half the game - 09/02/2010 07:48:14 PM 1179 Views
At first I was wearing the visor - 09/02/2010 11:32:28 PM 1267 Views
Of course, the Shotgun is released AFTER I beat my Vanguard *sigh* - 09/02/2010 11:31:13 PM 1227 Views
It's nice, but you don't miss much if you already had the Claymore shotty w/ an ammo upgrade. *NM* - 10/02/2010 05:16:00 AM 667 Views
I couldn't stand the Claymore - 10/02/2010 05:20:42 AM 1212 Views
Anyone find anything interesting about Zaeed Massani? - 11/02/2010 09:08:16 PM 1244 Views
I enjoy Zaeed. - 11/02/2010 09:22:39 PM 1199 Views
Yeah, I've listened to him alot but it's the same stuff every time. - 12/02/2010 03:14:11 PM 1155 Views
Never put him on my team once. And in the same vein - Jack. - 12/02/2010 01:34:33 AM 1301 Views
Who, what, where? *NM* - 22/02/2010 08:18:31 PM 626 Views
If you bought a new copy of the game, it came with a code for the "Cerberus Network" - 22/02/2010 08:22:18 PM 1161 Views
Oh, I did - 22/02/2010 08:30:21 PM 1141 Views
Is there a way to install the game on the Xbox, so you don't have to switch discs? - 12/02/2010 01:39:07 AM 1190 Views
Good ones have two discs, of course. DVDs can only hold so much. *NM* - 12/02/2010 02:46:39 AM 623 Views
This is the first I've ever seen. *NM* - 12/02/2010 02:51:34 AM 656 Views
I've never understood why people are unhappy with the multiple discs. - 12/02/2010 04:18:42 AM 1194 Views
There are a few others. - 12/02/2010 06:52:01 AM 1131 Views
Since nobody has really answered you....YES - 16/02/2010 10:08:40 PM 1204 Views
Shadow answered him. *NM* - 16/02/2010 10:52:17 PM 666 Views
So far, so great! - 12/02/2010 08:35:00 AM 1166 Views
Re: So far, so great! - 12/02/2010 02:31:43 PM 1275 Views
Re: So far, so great! - 16/02/2010 10:17:12 PM 1224 Views
I love the detail put into this game. - 12/02/2010 02:58:35 PM 1149 Views
Female Turians.... - 12/02/2010 09:05:39 PM 1126 Views
Nope. Don't exist in-game. - 14/02/2010 01:47:23 AM 1094 Views
I believe a krogan female is shown once. - 14/02/2010 02:03:27 AM 1180 Views
No I don't think that's right. - 14/02/2010 08:54:32 AM 1107 Views
Two things make me feel that the ambassador is female. - 14/02/2010 02:50:18 PM 1164 Views
So I just revisited Tuchanka... - 14/02/2010 05:21:39 PM 1273 Views
Asari - 15/02/2010 06:51:10 AM 1236 Views
Not really. - 15/02/2010 10:41:54 PM 1157 Views
I think you're taking him too literally. - 16/02/2010 01:06:11 AM 1157 Views
Yeah, probably was. - 16/02/2010 03:26:46 AM 1220 Views
Yeah, that's what I meant - 16/02/2010 10:51:01 PM 1193 Views
Dammit! I lost Miranda! - 14/02/2010 08:24:55 PM 1185 Views
The final verdict - 22/02/2010 08:06:12 PM 1197 Views
Re: The final verdict - 22/02/2010 09:01:53 PM 1205 Views
Explanation for death - 23/02/2010 02:00:16 AM 1199 Views
Can't be it, then - 23/02/2010 08:02:11 AM 1308 Views
He got taken by the bugs during the biotic bubble sequence? - 23/02/2010 03:25:36 AM 1176 Views
Re: He got taken by the bugs during the biotic bubble sequence? - 23/02/2010 08:03:46 AM 1227 Views
By the way, my game was surprisingly buggy - 23/02/2010 08:49:28 AM 1289 Views
Huh, I never got that. I only got one kind of bug. - 23/02/2010 04:06:17 PM 1119 Views
Re: Huh, I never got that. I only got one kind of bug. - 23/02/2010 04:29:46 PM 1146 Views
I had no bugs of any sort. *NM* - 23/02/2010 05:15:32 PM 677 Views
A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 06:40:35 AM 1290 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 12:28:29 PM 1124 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 04:57:43 PM 1178 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 28/02/2010 12:34:31 AM 1227 Views
I suppose. - 28/02/2010 03:29:23 AM 1208 Views
A vital part of role-playing is forcing the player to deal with the consequences of their actions - 27/02/2010 11:53:56 PM 1459 Views
Admittedly, my post was somewhat stream-of-consciousness. - 28/02/2010 03:28:02 AM 1151 Views
That's more understandable. - 28/02/2010 05:58:59 AM 1170 Views
Yeah, the tradeoff already works just fine. - 28/02/2010 06:05:44 AM 1178 Views
ok that's weird - 10/03/2010 06:52:39 PM 1197 Views

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