I thought Yrrth a perfectly fine game world; obviously anything less generic requires some effort.
Joel Send a noteboard - 25/09/2012 12:14:09 AM
It's absurd to argue realism in a game where people can conjure fireballs out of nowhere. Just sayin' 

Not really. It is fantasy, not non-causality. Like I said, it is the difference between "what if...?" and "whatever...." One can posit an alternate reality where magical forces exist but still have them operate in relatively predictable ways, or at least within "rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty." Characters do not cast fireballs "out of nowhere," but out of the mystical arcane forces understood as normal and natural to the game world, and only after years of meticulous study. AD&D never let rookie mages cast fireballs, as much because it would be unrealistic as because it would be game-breaking. It also never let characters cast infinitely large fireballs dealing infinite damage, because there is a limit to how much even AD&D empowers munchkins playing would-be deities.
More seriously, the problem with GURPS is a lack of pre-packaged adventures (as we've discussed previoulsy) and that it's completely inaccessible to new players (particularly the GM). Pathfinder has published 10 full Adventure Paths that take players from level 1 to 15-18 (each providing 200-300 hours of gameplay for about $120), the 11th is in production as we speak, and two more after that have been announced. Plus dozens of one or two evening encounters. D&D 4 has a boatload of modules as well, though I'm not aware of any APs comparable to Pathfinder's. Both Pathfinder and D&D 4 offer "easy intro/beginner" sets... I ran my wife through the Pathfinder box in an hour and a half and she had a lot of fun. I don't have the time to master GURPS rules as well as create adventures from scratch. If I want to play an RPG, I want to be be able to get my player or players going on their adventure with an absolute minimum of rules-prep - which will never happen using GURPS.
I do not think GURPS that inaccessible to new players, with the notable exception of the GM. Someone who has never roleplayed before can be integrated into a GURPS campaign fairly quickly as a player, but the complexity of RUNNING the game all but demands a veteran GM. Players do not need to know all, or even most, of any systems rules, but GMs do. Again, Instant Characters is all of four pages long, and half of that is just a list of all the dis/advantages and skills available (it really should have included a minimal equipment list though, because you cannot complete that last step of character creation without the main book.)
As to adventures, SJG has begun offering more adventures in recent years, and many worldbooks contained sample adventures. The original Basic Set had two; the All in a Nights Work solo adventure that required no GM, and the Caravan to Ein Arris module for a full party. The former even listed the alterations necessary to convert the generic medieval setting to a post-apocalyptic one (Max the Guard instantly becomes a lot more lethal carrying a shotgun rather than a scimitar.)
However, GURPS did not make a habit of printing modules, because it did not want to paint itself or its players into a corner. It was created at a time when many experienced DMs had already exhausted all the TSR modules on the market and were forced to either invent their own or stop gaming. GURPS gave them a comprehensive way to do that for any conceivable setting(s,) and pigeonholing them by restricting them to ONLY Yrrth or some other game world would have been counterproductive.
The thing is, you only have to master GURPS rules ONCE, and then you can create any adventure from scratch, from a minimalist non-magical Stone Age campaign to a high magic AND science Spelljammer/Star Wars mashup. The main difference between GURPS and most other systems is accommodating all that diversity without the need for a whole new set of rules, and without becoming so absurdly unrealistic and/or arbitrary your players bite their tongues to avoid falling over laughing at every single event in the campaign.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition: Edit 2 with added video & launch delay
- 07/09/2012 09:48:16 PM
3311 Views
!!!!!
- 07/09/2012 10:49:47 PM
1759 Views
I played the hell out of BG2, but only played BG1 once
- 08/09/2012 06:07:15 AM
1877 Views
BGI is a lot more fun because a lot more challenging, IMHO.
- 08/09/2012 02:33:17 PM
1723 Views
*revelation*
- 08/09/2012 05:45:28 PM
1720 Views
You need not be behind them to assassinate (the high level thief ability.)
- 08/09/2012 06:04:31 PM
1735 Views
ahh yes i remember, every hit is a backstab for 30 seconds or something.
- 08/09/2012 07:07:12 PM
1800 Views
Right; it is pretty much an instakill, considering the multipliers at the level it becomes available
- 08/09/2012 09:03:47 PM
1714 Views
fireballs are so epic in BG1
- 08/09/2012 05:41:34 PM
1774 Views
I disagree about it being the only good third level spell;lighting bolt and haste are also excellent
- 08/09/2012 06:26:08 PM
1914 Views
Yeah, I loved Lightning Bolt.
- 08/09/2012 06:44:59 PM
1661 Views
it was such a liability
- 08/09/2012 07:11:36 PM
1753 Views
Bouncing is what makes lightning bolts great, because you get to hit people more than once.
- 08/09/2012 08:59:10 PM
1687 Views
There's an unfortunate Wizard in the Firewine Bridge Ruins...
- 09/09/2012 12:58:18 AM
1765 Views
Oops.
- 09/09/2012 01:43:23 AM
1745 Views
- 09/09/2012 01:43:23 AM
1745 Views
that's why BG1 was so awesome. exploration=rewards
- 09/09/2012 09:09:22 AM
1726 Views
For sure; it made additional playthroughs fun even after beating the game.
- 09/09/2012 04:48:40 PM
1807 Views
Also, FB and Skull Trap are also almost interchangeable until 10th level, but ST damage is uncapped.
- 09/09/2012 02:02:17 AM
2232 Views
Multi-player was actually pretty simple if you just used it to create your whole party.
- 08/09/2012 02:19:35 PM
1749 Views
well yeah, because there was no connection to figure out
- 08/09/2012 06:59:49 PM
1816 Views
Right; I was never a big multiplayer fan anyway, but customized parties were nice
- 08/09/2012 08:53:45 PM
1855 Views
Where's the fun in having a customized party and losing all the character interaction, though?
- 09/09/2012 04:03:10 PM
1860 Views
I dislike most of the BG NPCs anyway, so I do not much feel the lack.
- 09/09/2012 04:45:12 PM
1949 Views
Re: I dislike most of the BG NPCs anyway, so I do not much feel the lack.
- 10/09/2012 01:23:44 PM
1742 Views
Suggestion since you're not using the NPCs anyway...
- 15/09/2012 11:34:28 PM
1836 Views
That is a good thought; I never played IWD.
- 16/09/2012 03:31:01 AM
1734 Views
Where did you think I just got it?
- 16/09/2012 04:39:43 PM
1668 Views
- 16/09/2012 04:39:43 PM
1668 Views
How would I know you just got a game released in the late nineties?
- 17/09/2012 06:57:19 PM
1663 Views
- 17/09/2012 06:57:19 PM
1663 Views
Re: How would I know you just got a game released in the late nineties?
- 17/09/2012 11:08:09 PM
1841 Views
- 17/09/2012 11:08:09 PM
1841 Views
I still like GURPS' character points best.
- 17/09/2012 11:40:12 PM
1722 Views
Heh, I'm not surprised.
- 18/09/2012 01:47:55 AM
1728 Views
If you want to avoid hyperspecialization, avoid classes.
- 18/09/2012 07:36:43 AM
1967 Views
I've never played GURPS, so I don't know how its system works.
- 18/09/2012 03:32:21 PM
1795 Views
I recommend it, but it is a bear to run.
- 19/09/2012 03:37:19 AM
2177 Views
Re: I recommend it, but it is a bear to run.
- 19/09/2012 08:35:24 AM
1730 Views
It is the difference between "what if...?" and "whatever...."
- 19/09/2012 10:58:31 PM
1837 Views
Re: It is the difference between "what if...?" and "whatever...."
- 20/09/2012 12:31:10 AM
1736 Views
AD&D cannot avoid one-sided encounters without restricting epic characters to epic encounters.
- 24/09/2012 05:53:39 AM
2064 Views
Re: AD&D cannot avoid one-sided encounters without restricting epic characters to epic encounters.
- 24/09/2012 07:03:39 AM
1730 Views
Things are a little different if you are the GM, yes.
- 24/09/2012 08:33:23 AM
1995 Views
Re: Things are a little different if you are the GM, yes.
- 24/09/2012 07:24:51 PM
1856 Views
My point is no one should be at any level.
- 25/09/2012 01:23:21 AM
1952 Views
Re: My point is no one should be at any level.
- 25/09/2012 03:41:42 AM
1968 Views
I know no more about AD&D 3rd Ed. than I retain from skimming the book a few times in a store.
- 25/09/2012 05:16:49 AM
1768 Views
Re: I know no more about AD&D 3rd Ed. than I retain from skimming the book a few times in a store.
- 25/09/2012 06:05:39 PM
1977 Views
Re: [Insert relevant subject line here.]
- 26/09/2012 08:12:05 AM
1919 Views
Re: [Insert relevant subject line here.]
- 26/09/2012 05:48:34 PM
1763 Views
Re: [Insert relevant subject line here.]
- 27/09/2012 10:26:16 AM
2386 Views
Re: [Insert relevant subject line here.]
- 27/09/2012 05:23:13 PM
1689 Views
I did not realize how awful classes were until liberated from them.
- 28/09/2012 12:49:14 AM
1853 Views
Re: Things are a little different if you are the GM, yes.
- 24/09/2012 08:45:05 PM
1706 Views
I thought Yrrth a perfectly fine game world; obviously anything less generic requires some effort.
- 25/09/2012 12:14:09 AM
1787 Views
GURPS and TV Tropes are a natural fit, so I will throw in a link to their page on it.
- 19/09/2012 03:50:37 AM
1843 Views
I can't speak for IWD I, but II is okay on the story front so far.
- 18/09/2012 06:36:16 PM
1652 Views
I've still only played about 4 hours of BG1
- 08/09/2012 03:59:49 PM
1800 Views
If you have not yet, you should look into the Weidu mods.
- 08/09/2012 06:12:20 PM
1634 Views
But what's the point in playing the game if you don't use the NPCs?
- 08/09/2012 06:47:38 PM
1675 Views
Not having a bunch of potentially useful but AI ruined incompetents constantly fumbling.
- 08/09/2012 08:55:53 PM
1799 Views
Yeah, but optimising the whole group sounds ridiculously easy.
- 09/09/2012 01:03:51 AM
1656 Views
Well, there are always mods for that.
- 09/09/2012 01:37:42 AM
1610 Views
For talking to pretty much anyone, really.
- 09/09/2012 03:20:29 AM
1720 Views
True.
- 09/09/2012 03:46:24 AM
1713 Views
Well, I usually don't have thieves in my party.
- 09/09/2012 04:56:21 AM
1644 Views
there wasn't a good enough thief option in bg2/ToB
- 09/09/2012 09:15:21 AM
1597 Views
I noticed that also; another argument for creating a party via MP even if you move it back to SP.
- 09/09/2012 11:45:12 PM
1712 Views
Just how many thieves do you even need?
- 10/09/2012 06:22:58 PM
1750 Views
You can get by with half a thief, yeah, but it forces you to forego maxing out some thief abilities.
- 10/09/2012 06:47:48 PM
1692 Views
Any suggested parties for beginners? *NM*
- 10/09/2012 01:13:38 AM
887 Views
I am completely stoked about it.
- 10/09/2012 07:07:09 PM
1827 Views
TotSC made BGI a LOT more fun.
- 10/09/2012 07:46:03 PM
1611 Views
all the kits/races/dual wielding etc will be available in bgee
- 11/09/2012 09:02:35 AM
1630 Views
Ah; nice.
- 11/09/2012 06:57:14 PM
1767 Views
i'm not sure they were even state of the art at the time
- 12/09/2012 09:26:05 AM
1669 Views
Remember, BGI was released only about two years after Doom.
- 13/09/2012 12:05:11 AM
1711 Views
If by "two" you mean "five," then yes. DOOM was released in 1993.
- 13/09/2012 03:22:58 PM
1663 Views
Ah, 1998. The golden year. Ocarina of Time. Starcraft. Half-Life. *NM*
- 13/09/2012 04:16:21 PM
919 Views
That just reminds me of how sad it is that StarCraft died this year
. *NM*
- 13/09/2012 11:55:28 PM
875 Views
. *NM*
- 13/09/2012 11:55:28 PM
875 Views
Fair enough; I was thinking of Doom in terms of when I started playing it and Doom II (1995.)
- 14/09/2012 03:56:50 PM
1774 Views
I don't mind the graphics in it
- 12/09/2012 04:38:47 PM
1719 Views
Good, me neither, but I have heard others criticize them.
- 12/09/2012 11:51:16 PM
1603 Views
I used the PS3 web browser as my primary browser for about 3 months
- 13/09/2012 01:13:22 PM
1635 Views
*nods* I suspected as much, but had no first hand experience confirming it.
- 14/09/2012 04:03:15 PM
1705 Views
I'm going to ask this here rather than start a new topic as its somewhat related.
- 10/09/2012 07:42:32 PM
1683 Views
And it now has been delayed till Nov
*NM*
- 15/09/2012 03:52:41 AM
869 Views
*NM*
- 15/09/2012 03:52:41 AM
869 Views
On another note, shame on all of you for not telling me Jon Irenicus is Ra's Al Ghul
- 15/09/2012 04:19:21 AM
1716 Views

