I partially agree with LoS, and I partially disagree with you.
Cymbaline Send a noteboard - 27/09/2009 12:07:07 AM
Condensing things into one response:
LoS:
I like it intellectually more than I liked it in fact. I salivate over it intellectually, in fact I just thought it was pretty sweet. Not sure if it even cracks my top 10 PS2 games list. Perhaps it was a stumbling step in a bold new direction rather than a confident masterwork.
Also, for what it's worth, the gameplay drags until you get a party and get gambits - maybe five or six hours in? If you didn't make it that far and still have any interest and time, it might be worth trying to reach that point.
Jragghen:
I don't remember the plot well enough to meet all of your points head on, but I will defend Vaan and Penelo. It's some kind of classic storytelling device that I can't think of the name of - prime examples being R2-D2 and C3P0, both of whom were ripped off of two bumbling peons from an Akira Kurosawa epic? I think.
Spoilers ahoy, but anyway, Vaan and Penelo are neat because they give you a perspective that's not really involved in the conflict. They're two people who are (their country was invaded) but aren't (that's pretty much it) involved, but they get swept along for the ride and get to see things normally (in realistic terms, not in FF terms) visible only to the select few, like Ashe.
Personally, I loved them because they were gigantic spoilers of expectations. No one falls in love, including the obvious choice of Vaan and Penelo or Vaan and Ashe or whatever else. Furthermore, their lives just go back to what they were after the conflict - they don't get knighted, they don't become prince and princess, they aren't taken in by royalty and given some kind of ridiculous role at the palace. And last but not least, despite seemingly being the main characters, they're really not. Vaan and Penelo are just a huge bait and switch in the most delightful way. Square Enix throws them out there, and because it's a Final Fantasy, you assume all of these things about them will be true, but none of them are. I think it's fantastic.
LoS:
Because from an intellectual point of view, I should have loved FFXII. I enjoy the idea of a more political, down-to-earth conflict; I like politics and nations in my stories; I enjoy worlds that feel fairly real. I also strongly support any effort to move storytelling in games beyond the status quo. Reading your post down below, I agree 100%.
But in the end, I couldn't finish XII. Just dropped it after a few hours; it was not able to hold my attention. Granted, the reasons for that are tied to gameplay even more than to story and plot, but something about the execution of the characters and plot played a role as well.
But in the end, I couldn't finish XII. Just dropped it after a few hours; it was not able to hold my attention. Granted, the reasons for that are tied to gameplay even more than to story and plot, but something about the execution of the characters and plot played a role as well.
I like it intellectually more than I liked it in fact. I salivate over it intellectually, in fact I just thought it was pretty sweet. Not sure if it even cracks my top 10 PS2 games list. Perhaps it was a stumbling step in a bold new direction rather than a confident masterwork.
Also, for what it's worth, the gameplay drags until you get a party and get gambits - maybe five or six hours in? If you didn't make it that far and still have any interest and time, it might be worth trying to reach that point.
Jragghen:
Even for just your little bit of time, try to tell me it wouldn't have been a better game with just this tiny little switch: Vaan and Penelo don't exist.
I don't remember the plot well enough to meet all of your points head on, but I will defend Vaan and Penelo. It's some kind of classic storytelling device that I can't think of the name of - prime examples being R2-D2 and C3P0, both of whom were ripped off of two bumbling peons from an Akira Kurosawa epic? I think.
Spoilers ahoy, but anyway, Vaan and Penelo are neat because they give you a perspective that's not really involved in the conflict. They're two people who are (their country was invaded) but aren't (that's pretty much it) involved, but they get swept along for the ride and get to see things normally (in realistic terms, not in FF terms) visible only to the select few, like Ashe.
Personally, I loved them because they were gigantic spoilers of expectations. No one falls in love, including the obvious choice of Vaan and Penelo or Vaan and Ashe or whatever else. Furthermore, their lives just go back to what they were after the conflict - they don't get knighted, they don't become prince and princess, they aren't taken in by royalty and given some kind of ridiculous role at the palace. And last but not least, despite seemingly being the main characters, they're really not. Vaan and Penelo are just a huge bait and switch in the most delightful way. Square Enix throws them out there, and because it's a Final Fantasy, you assume all of these things about them will be true, but none of them are. I think it's fantastic.
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So being a FF fan and never having played FF 12...
24/09/2009 10:25:44 PM
- 866 Views
You're not alone- the characters just didn't click for me, nor did the plot
24/09/2009 11:16:11 PM
- 670 Views
Videogame stories suck the big one, with VERY few exceptions.
25/09/2009 12:29:39 AM
- 695 Views
FF7?!?! You're a nutcase!
25/09/2009 01:50:16 AM
- 648 Views
Fair enough. Maybe I'm proving my own point.
26/09/2009 06:46:26 AM
- 697 Views
I will have to disagree with this...
26/09/2009 08:20:46 AM
- 599 Views
Exactly. When I think story here, I think of the individual stories as well as the whole.
26/09/2009 07:13:24 PM
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Still, it's good for a videogame story.
26/09/2009 07:54:01 PM
- 637 Views
I agree, with caveat.
26/09/2009 11:54:25 PM
- 749 Views
New games do not feature the storytelling prowess of good TV, films, or novels.
28/09/2009 01:03:46 AM
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I disagree. Maybe you're playing the wrong games. *NM*
28/09/2009 04:51:48 AM
- 318 Views
What is the videogame equivalent of The Godfather, The Wire, or Great Expectations? *NM*
01/10/2009 03:31:37 AM
- 335 Views
Ah, I see. *NM*
03/10/2009 08:02:28 PM
- 354 Views
Say what?
04/10/2009 02:21:01 PM
- 602 Views
"Ah, I see" means "You haven't answered because there is no satisfactory answer."
05/10/2009 07:06:03 AM
- 620 Views
So you expect me to reply within two days when it took you three?
05/10/2009 10:29:27 PM
- 559 Views
I've used that escape from a debate I was losing, too. It's a good one
06/10/2009 09:21:31 PM
- 668 Views
And yet so many people claim to play them for their stories...
25/09/2009 03:06:44 AM
- 695 Views
The extras lower peoples' standards, but I DO think it's still the story.
25/09/2009 04:34:30 AM
- 595 Views
That's basically what I meant.
25/09/2009 05:05:19 AM
- 582 Views
Yeah I understand.
25/09/2009 05:18:34 AM
- 659 Views
You are correct. But it sounds like semantics to me, since in practice...
25/09/2009 06:00:41 AM
- 613 Views
I enjoyed 12 more than most of those you mentioned...
25/09/2009 12:55:56 AM
- 601 Views
The grid was fine, but didn't scale well.
25/09/2009 04:35:57 AM
- 592 Views
I'll agree with this point, but I also agree with most of the thoughts of the GP
25/09/2009 05:26:18 PM
- 660 Views
I am glad that at least one person here is with me on this.
26/09/2009 05:53:42 AM
- 627 Views
It's interesting....
26/09/2009 06:55:18 PM
- 651 Views
Plot doesn't kick in until later on, sadly
26/09/2009 07:27:55 PM
- 602 Views
I partially agree with LoS, and I partially disagree with you.
27/09/2009 12:07:07 AM
- 694 Views
Final Fantasy XII was the best written FF ever, by far.
26/09/2009 05:47:27 AM
- 672 Views
LOL... FFXII was the best FFXII ever?
26/09/2009 03:43:11 PM
- 623 Views
That was juvenile, TMJ. Also, he said best written FF. *NM*
26/09/2009 06:58:12 PM
- 357 Views
Yes, it was funny on a juvenile level.
26/09/2009 07:11:12 PM
- 620 Views
Some of us --I'd even say MOST of us-- like that, though.
26/09/2009 07:20:55 PM
- 662 Views
Agreed, I want to get into a magical whale's belly and fly through the air ...
28/09/2009 05:03:14 AM
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