Wow, I guess you touched a nerve, Legolas. New pet peeve discovered! *NM*
lord-of-shadow Send a noteboard - 18/01/2011 06:22:37 PM
In the same fashion that a good screenwriter is not necessarily going to be a good novelist, a good novelist is not necessarily going to be a good game writer - and vice versa. Ignoring the medium differences for a second, the environment is utterly different and requires different skillsets.
An author works mostly alone. They have ownership over their story, intellectually if not necessarily legally. They work with some editors, but those editors are people who are there to make the author's story better and more polished: it's still the author's story.
Games are an entirely different beast. You've got huge teams, for one. The writing is a small piece of a larger product, as opposed to THE whole product. You very rarely have a game that is driven by a single individual's creative vision, and when that does happen (Kojima, Jaffe), it's usually by a game designer or generaly creative director of some sort, never a writer. There's a huge amount of collaboration, compromise, organization, and prioritization skills that a game writer needs that a book author never needs to deal with, at least not as often or on such a scale.
Second, the medium is vastly different. How would you go about writing a game script? Think about it for a second. The knee-jerk reaction most people have to this question is that they'd write it like a film script. But unless the game is incredibly linear, that model breaks down. And the right answer? There is none, because depending on the game, the genre, how linear it is, whether the dialog branches, how many side quests it has, what sort of character interactions the game supports, and a host of other factors, the format of your script is going to be different. I've known games where the script can be broken down into a ton of modular pieces, which are organized into some sort of folder hierarchy. Those pieces themselves might be written like film scripts, but they might be written in excel spreadsheets with a bunch of meta info attached to small pieces of script, like what character says the line under what conditions, what might trigger it, what file it is stored in. In other cases, referring to "a game script" is erroneous: there isn't always a single collection of writing that can be pointed at and labeled a script, and depending on what the purpose of the writing is it could end up in a million different places and organized in a number of different ways. And, of coruse, written by 20 different people. I could go on, since the nature of the game industry calls for almost as many solutions as there are games, but you get the point.
And then there is the writing itself. There are fundamental differences between what sort of writing works in a game vs the writing that works in a book. I'm realizing that I've spent too much time writing this so I've gotta be brief, but game writing is going to be different in areas like brevity, how compact the writing is, how much exposition is acceptable, what sort of situations you can expect a player to read th text vs ignoring it, and how you're going to impart important feedback and direction into the writing. And finally, any game with good writing needs to make that writing an important part of the game itself: it needs to be woven into every aspect of world building, character animations, and music, and it needs to support the flow of the gameplay itself, which is where it so often breaks down.
In short: novelists don't know jack shit about writing for games, and just because they can write a good book doesn't mean they can write for a game. The skillsets are very different, the writing is very different, the goals of the writing is very different. And, although I know you weren't really making this argument, the attitude that "oh, games have bad writing, but it would get better if only they brought in 'real' authors" (which also implies that all game writers are impotent hacks!) is an ignorant one held by people who don't understand what they're talking about.
An author works mostly alone. They have ownership over their story, intellectually if not necessarily legally. They work with some editors, but those editors are people who are there to make the author's story better and more polished: it's still the author's story.
Games are an entirely different beast. You've got huge teams, for one. The writing is a small piece of a larger product, as opposed to THE whole product. You very rarely have a game that is driven by a single individual's creative vision, and when that does happen (Kojima, Jaffe), it's usually by a game designer or generaly creative director of some sort, never a writer. There's a huge amount of collaboration, compromise, organization, and prioritization skills that a game writer needs that a book author never needs to deal with, at least not as often or on such a scale.
Second, the medium is vastly different. How would you go about writing a game script? Think about it for a second. The knee-jerk reaction most people have to this question is that they'd write it like a film script. But unless the game is incredibly linear, that model breaks down. And the right answer? There is none, because depending on the game, the genre, how linear it is, whether the dialog branches, how many side quests it has, what sort of character interactions the game supports, and a host of other factors, the format of your script is going to be different. I've known games where the script can be broken down into a ton of modular pieces, which are organized into some sort of folder hierarchy. Those pieces themselves might be written like film scripts, but they might be written in excel spreadsheets with a bunch of meta info attached to small pieces of script, like what character says the line under what conditions, what might trigger it, what file it is stored in. In other cases, referring to "a game script" is erroneous: there isn't always a single collection of writing that can be pointed at and labeled a script, and depending on what the purpose of the writing is it could end up in a million different places and organized in a number of different ways. And, of coruse, written by 20 different people. I could go on, since the nature of the game industry calls for almost as many solutions as there are games, but you get the point.
And then there is the writing itself. There are fundamental differences between what sort of writing works in a game vs the writing that works in a book. I'm realizing that I've spent too much time writing this so I've gotta be brief, but game writing is going to be different in areas like brevity, how compact the writing is, how much exposition is acceptable, what sort of situations you can expect a player to read th text vs ignoring it, and how you're going to impart important feedback and direction into the writing. And finally, any game with good writing needs to make that writing an important part of the game itself: it needs to be woven into every aspect of world building, character animations, and music, and it needs to support the flow of the gameplay itself, which is where it so often breaks down.
In short: novelists don't know jack shit about writing for games, and just because they can write a good book doesn't mean they can write for a game. The skillsets are very different, the writing is very different, the goals of the writing is very different. And, although I know you weren't really making this argument, the attitude that "oh, games have bad writing, but it would get better if only they brought in 'real' authors" (which also implies that all game writers are impotent hacks!) is an ignorant one held by people who don't understand what they're talking about.
This message last edited by lord-of-shadow on 18/01/2011 at 08:12:59 PM
I need a good RPG.
13/01/2011 06:49:32 PM
- 2615 Views
The Witcher
13/01/2011 07:13:50 PM
- 1495 Views
Hm. I have it as a project to improve my French, but I found the gameplay pretty boring.
14/01/2011 05:38:15 AM
- 1410 Views
If you find The Witcher boring, you'll likely feel the same about Baldur's Gate 2, IWD, etc.
14/01/2011 03:07:12 PM
- 1392 Views
All right. I'll give it a shot, then. Thanks. *NM*
14/01/2011 08:17:17 PM
- 838 Views
Make sure you get the enhanced edition, or whatever it's called.
14/01/2011 09:56:56 PM
- 1421 Views
It's funny, that, because it's based on a critically acclaimed book series.
15/01/2011 01:13:39 PM
- 1420 Views
I've heard that, yeah. I just don't think enough of it made it into the game. (minor spoilers)
15/01/2011 08:12:34 PM
- 1361 Views
The thing is, what works in a book doesn't necessarily work in a game.
18/01/2011 06:15:10 PM
- 1443 Views
Wow, I guess you touched a nerve, Legolas. New pet peeve discovered! *NM*
18/01/2011 06:22:37 PM
- 846 Views
I don't have time to do this justice, but I'll make a brief comment.
18/01/2011 09:30:20 PM
- 1405 Views
Did you read his post?
18/01/2011 09:59:21 PM
- 1394 Views
Yeah, that was one of the things I didn't have time to respond to.
18/01/2011 10:31:46 PM
- 1377 Views
Re: Yeah, that was one of the things I didn't have time to respond to.
18/01/2011 10:43:20 PM
- 1444 Views
So I just realized I sparked a bit of a controversy here... I should check this board more often.
25/01/2011 10:28:34 PM
- 1259 Views
Do yourself a favor...
13/01/2011 10:39:41 PM
- 1374 Views
Everything is the opposite of Morrowind, though.
14/01/2011 05:37:42 AM
- 1502 Views
Just go ahead and shoot yourself now
14/01/2011 07:51:06 PM
- 1374 Views
...you were so right. Fable is an MMORPG without the other people.
15/01/2011 06:35:46 AM
- 1396 Views
...dislikes...Fallout...3....*dies* *NM*
13/01/2011 11:34:10 PM
- 821 Views
It was boring. Really, really boring.
14/01/2011 05:36:41 AM
- 1442 Views
I'm with you, brother!
14/01/2011 05:51:41 AM
- 1411 Views
awwww...I loved Fallout 3
14/01/2011 03:37:51 PM
- 1327 Views
No...
14/01/2011 03:47:22 PM
- 1546 Views
It's minecraft with guns. *NM*
14/01/2011 08:16:23 PM
- 824 Views
And without a destructible environment.
14/01/2011 08:16:52 PM
- 1326 Views
"It's minecraft with guns." Ouch. Come on. Fallout3 was better than that. *NM*
19/01/2011 04:09:30 AM
- 807 Views
Coming from me, actually, that's higher praise than it deserves.
19/01/2011 06:54:57 AM
- 1379 Views
I got it for like $25, I'd say that's about what Fallout 3 is worth
19/01/2011 05:09:34 PM
- 1487 Views
You got Fallout 3 or New Vegas for $25
19/01/2011 06:12:26 PM
- 1326 Views
Wait. You haven't played it yet?
20/01/2011 03:46:17 AM
- 1395 Views
Well said
20/01/2011 08:43:25 AM
- 1334 Views
Played Fallout 3, but not NV.
20/01/2011 06:22:33 PM
- 1306 Views
I'm sure I'll be trying that new
21/01/2011 02:04:47 PM
- 1467 Views
Don't play Mass Effect 2 without playing Mass Effect 1. It's a much worse game.
21/01/2011 06:43:16 PM
- 1415 Views
Yes, play ME1 first... but opinions vary about ME2. It did the most important things better, IMO.
21/01/2011 11:57:26 PM
- 1443 Views
That's true if gameplay is more important to you than story.
22/01/2011 06:50:32 AM
- 1439 Views
ME1 wasn't even going to release on the PC initially, so I think we could be worse off.
22/01/2011 03:27:05 PM
- 1272 Views
If you want a GREAT story, I would go for...
14/01/2011 08:04:15 AM
- 1435 Views
I second the idea of Borderlands if you like loot-generating/diabloesque RPGs w/ others.
14/01/2011 03:09:29 PM
- 1363 Views
I'm surprised you liked Oblivion.
15/01/2011 12:47:24 AM
- 1435 Views
I liked Oblivion because it was the sequel to Morrowind.
15/01/2011 01:31:51 AM
- 1272 Views
Do you know about "The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim"? It will be released Nov 2011 *NM*
15/01/2011 04:52:13 AM
- 773 Views
Final Fantasy 8.
18/01/2011 09:10:51 AM
- 1518 Views
That was the first FF I quit before even finishing, and consequently the last I played in the series
18/01/2011 03:23:40 PM
- 1384 Views
I wouldn't even call JRPGs and Western RPGs the same genre, really. *NM*
19/01/2011 02:45:17 PM
- 758 Views
Like SVU and NCIS are both crime dramas, stylistic differences can remain under one genre umbrella.
19/01/2011 03:11:41 PM
- 1316 Views
If you're going the Final Fantasy route, I'd recommend Final Fantasy Tactics. *NM*
20/01/2011 06:36:02 PM
- 762 Views
21/01/2011 02:14:41 PM
- 1359 Views
Go SNES! FF6, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound...
19/01/2011 07:42:23 PM
- 1294 Views
I can agree to that.
19/01/2011 08:03:59 PM
- 1430 Views
What do you think of Strategy RPGs? *NM*
20/01/2011 03:59:52 PM
- 765 Views