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OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel Send a noteboard - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM
I would make it not happen.

Rome doesn't resort to tactics which would result in their fall and the dark ages never happen. Europe doesn't go through the intellectual lull it did and religious dogma and irrationality isn't able to take over.

As a result, mankind is much further along today.


Didn't the Plauge happen several hundred years after the fall of Rome? Or am I just being an idiot and not quite getting what your saying?

In some cases, the same diseases were responsible for multiple instances of plague, and it's hard to accurately diagnose each of them hundreds or even thousands of years later. "Plague" killed Pericles and a host of others when Athens was besieged in the Peloponessian War; WHICH plague remains an open question.

I don't agree the Romes plague near the end is what killed it though; overextension and complacency during the Pax are more attractive candidates. Christian unity and the assimilation of so many "barbarian" German tribes kept Rome on life support and hid the decline for at least a century after its peak, but had the Empire been sustainable Constantinople would never have been founded.


The plague that came through Rome crippled its army, killing most of the young Roman soldiers. This eventually forced them to try and assimilate barbarian tribes and resort to the measures that kept it on life support.

Without the plague, Rome's population might have been strong enough to sustain Roman troops and a Roman identity, instead of seeding power to outsiders.

Of course, the reason Rome fell can be debated endlessly. I'm one of those that thinks it was the plague.

Either way, if Rome hadn't fallen like it did, I think we'd be better off by a lot today. But "Have Rome not fall like it did" doesn't sound like a very good reply

Just wanted to let you know I DID read it; I always read replies, even if work and other responsibilities often mean I don't get to respond in turn as promptly as I'd like anymore. Oh, for the days when I could go back and forth in a half dozen wotmania CMB threads at once for thirty hours before collapsing in an exhausted heap then rising to re-enter the lists. On the plus side (sort of) I couldn't do that now even if I had the time.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 681 Views
Myself: World War I. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 533 Views
I don't think it's that simple. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 469 Views
I see your point. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 456 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 429 Views
True. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 440 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 432 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 415 Views
Re: True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. snoopcester - 07/04/2010 10:48:49 AM 420 Views
I had a teacher with an interesting theory related to that LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:57:49 AM 316 Views
Well, at this time, it was pretty well accepted that Russia wasn't exactly a techinical power. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:04:35 AM 280 Views
The Plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 408 Views
Re: The Plague LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 314 Views
He must be talking about a different plague, but I'm not sure which one, either. *NM* Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:37:32 AM 291 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 448 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 419 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 411 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 292 Views
...? lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 311 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 323 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 274 Views
OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM 455 Views
The spread of Christianity LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 483 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 305 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 296 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 326 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 421 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 275 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 307 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 453 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 429 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 300 Views
The product of Christian inspiration was heavily Hellenistic in origin... lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:54:12 PM 290 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 298 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 289 Views
Agreed. *NM* Kylia Skydancer - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 372 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 400 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 494 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 403 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 404 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 514 Views
I don't know if that's really true... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 426 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 482 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 174 Views
NOOOO1111 Joel - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 325 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 296 Views
Not in the first two Civs. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 271 Views
Civ, i love that game... MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 392 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 262 Views
An interesting point MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 431 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* ironclad - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 275 Views
It's crazy to think that the human knowledge base doubles every 2 years... lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:49:28 PM 272 Views
Literacy and communication have literally made a world of difference. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:25:45 AM 402 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... moondog - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 338 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 276 Views
The spread of Islam Dragonsoul - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 428 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 283 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 257 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... Legolas - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 419 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 406 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 387 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 370 Views
Re: The spread of Islam Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 468 Views
Haha, are you kidding? Dragonsoul - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 241 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 239 Views
Ask yourself the question... Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 245 Views
I don't see the connection. BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 425 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 295 Views
I'd better not touch this one ßelals Girl - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 444 Views
The spread of Judaism. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 402 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 321 Views
I...do not know. Spriteling - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 317 Views
A lot of times, you change one thing, and everything changes- even the things you don't think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:26:51 PM 286 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines Larry - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 488 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 266 Views
Nope, not really Larry - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 412 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Legolas - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 249 Views
Yes Larry - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 386 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Camilla - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 288 Views
Uh... Larry - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 435 Views
Re: Uh... Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 459 Views
The Devil is always in the details Larry - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 398 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 235 Views
Not really Larry - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 399 Views
Re: Not really Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 274 Views
Only to a degree Larry - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 379 Views
Re: Only to a degree Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 487 Views
I was into cultural and religious history Larry - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 380 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 279 Views
Ha! Larry - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 427 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 249 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... Larry - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 532 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 298 Views
Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 390 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... Legolas - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 271 Views
I know Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 429 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort Larry - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 301 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 279 Views
Since, surprisingly, no one's pointed it out yet, prehistory/=history. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:52:19 AM 376 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* random thoughts - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 294 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. Tigr - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 345 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 259 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* TaskmasterJack - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 273 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? StarrBecca - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 261 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. lyringlas - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 283 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* fistofpainx - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 315 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 415 Views
I think two spreads that would be better to eliminate would be marmite and vegemite (sp). Avendesora - 08/04/2010 05:30:26 PM 382 Views
The Bread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 458 Views
The dead of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 411 Views
The thread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 358 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 391 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 281 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 260 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 265 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 268 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 311 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 260 Views
My parody. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 373 Views
Re: My parody. Camilla - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 435 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final Colonel Logain - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 449 Views
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