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I'm really sleep deprived... Larry Send a noteboard - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM
What if black pepper had been an indigenous plant in Europe and/or the Middle East? Not only does that impact a small but important part of medieval trade - the most long-distance one - but it also is of crucial importance to the European discovery journeys of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, and hence to the entire concept of colonialism.


Or what if potatoes or tobacco had not been imported from South America.


Tobacco was from North America/the Caribbean, or at least the specific species that are smoked by most people :P

Of course, if tobacco was not a cash crop, my family would never have been wealthy in the early 19th century (nor would they have lost most everything between the Panic of 1837 and the Civil War :P)


Yesyes. Details. I come from Norway. Everywhere that is warm enough for tobacco growing is per definition SOUTH.

And, of course, part of the scenario would have to be that it were never grown by European immigrants either.


It's okay. I always think "up there" for any region where snow lies on the ground more than a handful of days a year, if that much. :P

And then there's that scenario if Songhai had not been weakened by invasions from the Sahara...


Now you are back on political history.


I consider the social vacuum created by the collapse of a strong polity in the Sahel to be responsible in part for the atrocity known as the transatlantic slave trade. The social upheaval that was unleashed is something that certainly affects hundreds of millions directly and almost as many indirectly today.

That being said, some of my vocabulary would have been different if this hadn't taken place.


But that is the case with most of the political events mentioned in this thread. The interest lies in the social ramifications. The collapse of a major African kingdom is definitely a political event.


Of course, I like to think my old studies, grounded firmly in the late Weimar/pre-WWII Nazi Era, were not political in nature, although that contradictory regime certainly loomed large over everything I was researching about religious programs during that time :P


I have always preferred political history. I think that is why I did not keep studying it. It became all about fishermen and farmers, and I couldn't care less. I like the wars and revolutions and the intrigues much more than the statistics and boring. In theory social history is good, but in practice it puts me to sleep.


While it draws upon some of the same methodologies as new social history, the areas of research are much more fascinating. Ever read Carlo Ginzburg's The Cheese and the Worms: The Cosmology of a 16th Century Miller? Still one of the best microhistories produced and it dealt with a relatively educated heretic who devised a cosmology that both fit in with his times and ran very counter to it. I had to read that in my freshman honors Western Civ class and that book convinced me that I was in the right field. Also, cultural histories yielded interesting discussions about English wife swaps and "sales," some of which lasted until the late 19th century. How can stuffy political maneuverings top that? :P


Oh, I don't mind cultural history when it centers on individuals, but because there is often so little to latch on to when it comes to illiterate farmers and fishermen (which Norwegian history has to deal with for most of its ... history), it all becomes numbers. And numbers do not work in my brain.

You should review that book properly and convince me to read it :P


I don't know if I still have my freshman paper on that book or not. I did keep most of my papers to use as guides of what to and what not to do in writing the next paper :P

Maybe when I'm done with cataloging my books next week, I'll re-read it and write a commentary. And you should look into the pardon requests that were penned for illiterate French peasants in the 16th and 17th centuries. Natalie Zemon Davis wrote a nice book on those.


I'll get to it right after I finish reading Simone Bertière's books on French queens.


At first, I thought you were talking about reading about French transvestites :O

;)
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 681 Views
Myself: World War I. - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 533 Views
I don't think it's that simple. - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 468 Views
I see your point. - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 456 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 429 Views
True. - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 440 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 432 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 415 Views
The Plague - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 408 Views
Re: The Plague - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 314 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 448 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 419 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 411 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 292 Views
...? - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 311 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 323 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 274 Views
The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 482 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 305 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 296 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 326 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 421 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 275 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 307 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 453 Views
precisely. - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 429 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 300 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 298 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 289 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 372 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 400 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 494 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 403 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 404 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 514 Views
I don't know if that's really true... - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 426 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 482 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 174 Views
NOOOO1111 - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 325 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 296 Views
Not in the first two Civs. - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 271 Views
Civ, i love that game... - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 392 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 262 Views
An interesting point - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 431 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 275 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 338 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 276 Views
The spread of Islam - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 428 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 283 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 257 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 419 Views
Fair enough. - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 406 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 387 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 370 Views
Re: The spread of Islam - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 468 Views
Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 241 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 239 Views
Ask yourself the question... - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 245 Views
I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 425 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 295 Views
I'd better not touch this one - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 444 Views
The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 402 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 321 Views
I...do not know. - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 317 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 488 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 266 Views
Nope, not really - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 412 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 249 Views
Yes - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 386 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 287 Views
Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 435 Views
Re: Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 459 Views
The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 398 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 235 Views
Not really - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 399 Views
Re: Not really - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 274 Views
Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 379 Views
Re: Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 487 Views
I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 380 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 279 Views
Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 427 Views
Re: Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 249 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 532 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 298 Views
- 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 390 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 271 Views
I know - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 429 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 301 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 279 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 294 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 345 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 259 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 273 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 261 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 283 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 315 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 415 Views
The Bread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 458 Views
The dead of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 411 Views
The thread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 358 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 391 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 281 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 260 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 265 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 268 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 310 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 260 Views
My parody. - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 373 Views
Re: My parody. - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 435 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 449 Views

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