What if black pepper had been an indigenous plant in Europe and/or the Middle East? Not only does that impact a small but important part of medieval trade - the most long-distance one - but it also is of crucial importance to the European discovery journeys of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, and hence to the entire concept of colonialism.
Or what if potatoes or tobacco had not been imported from South America.
Tobacco was from North America/the Caribbean, or at least the specific species that are smoked by most people
Of course, if tobacco was not a cash crop, my family would never have been wealthy in the early 19th century (nor would they have lost most everything between the Panic of 1837 and the Civil War )
Yesyes. Details. I come from Norway. Everywhere that is warm enough for tobacco growing is per definition SOUTH.
And, of course, part of the scenario would have to be that it were never grown by European immigrants either.
It's okay. I always think "up there" for any region where snow lies on the ground more than a handful of days a year, if that much.
And then there's that scenario if Songhai had not been weakened by invasions from the Sahara...
Now you are back on political history.
I consider the social vacuum created by the collapse of a strong polity in the Sahel to be responsible in part for the atrocity known as the transatlantic slave trade. The social upheaval that was unleashed is something that certainly affects hundreds of millions directly and almost as many indirectly today.
That being said, some of my vocabulary would have been different if this hadn't taken place.
But that is the case with most of the political events mentioned in this thread. The interest lies in the social ramifications. The collapse of a major African kingdom is definitely a political event.
Of course, I like to think my old studies, grounded firmly in the late Weimar/pre-WWII Nazi Era, were not political in nature, although that contradictory regime certainly loomed large over everything I was researching about religious programs during that time
I have always preferred political history. I think that is why I did not keep studying it. It became all about fishermen and farmers, and I couldn't care less. I like the wars and revolutions and the intrigues much more than the statistics and boring. In theory social history is good, but in practice it puts me to sleep.
While it draws upon some of the same methodologies as new social history, the areas of research are much more fascinating. Ever read Carlo Ginzburg's The Cheese and the Worms: The Cosmology of a 16th Century Miller? Still one of the best microhistories produced and it dealt with a relatively educated heretic who devised a cosmology that both fit in with his times and ran very counter to it. I had to read that in my freshman honors Western Civ class and that book convinced me that I was in the right field. Also, cultural histories yielded interesting discussions about English wife swaps and "sales," some of which lasted until the late 19th century. How can stuffy political maneuverings top that?
Oh, I don't mind cultural history when it centers on individuals, but because there is often so little to latch on to when it comes to illiterate farmers and fishermen (which Norwegian history has to deal with for most of its ... history), it all becomes numbers. And numbers do not work in my brain.
You should review that book properly and convince me to read it
I don't know if I still have my freshman paper on that book or not. I did keep most of my papers to use as guides of what to and what not to do in writing the next paper
Maybe when I'm done with cataloging my books next week, I'll re-read it and write a commentary. And you should look into the pardon requests that were penned for illiterate French peasants in the 16th and 17th centuries. Natalie Zemon Davis wrote a nice book on those.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up.
07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM
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Myself: World War I.
07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM
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I don't think it's that simple.
07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM
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I see your point.
07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM
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True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things.
07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM
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Re: True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things.
07/04/2010 10:48:49 AM
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I had a teacher with an interesting theory related to that
07/04/2010 12:57:49 AM
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Well, at this time, it was pretty well accepted that Russia wasn't exactly a techinical power.
07/04/2010 01:04:35 AM
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The Plague
07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM
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Re: The Plague
07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM
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He must be talking about a different plague, but I'm not sure which one, either. *NM*
07/04/2010 01:37:32 AM
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Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time.
07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM
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I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague
07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM
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Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague
07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM
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I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM*
08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM
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...?
08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM
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Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM*
08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM
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OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence.
13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM
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The spread of Christianity
07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM
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Re: The spread of Christianity
08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM
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But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM*
08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM
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Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art?
08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM
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The product of Christian inspiration was heavily Hellenistic in origin...
08/04/2010 07:54:12 PM
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The destruction of the Great Library.
07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM
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Internet spam sucks indeed.
07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM
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We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction.
07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM
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This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about.
07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM
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"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM*
07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM
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It's crazy to think that the human knowledge base doubles every 2 years...
07/04/2010 08:49:28 PM
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Literacy and communication have literally made a world of difference.
13/04/2010 09:25:45 AM
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if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs...
07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM
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"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here!
07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM
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The spread of Islam
07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM
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oh aren't you clever. *NM*
07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM
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There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is.
07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM
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Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same...
07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM
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Fair enough.
07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM
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Re: The spread of Islam
08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM
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I...do not know.
07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM
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A lot of times, you change one thing, and everything changes- even the things you don't think about.
07/04/2010 12:26:51 PM
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Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines
07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM
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Here's one that'll be more to your liking...
08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM
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Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking...
08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM
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Uh...
08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM
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Re: Uh...
08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM
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The Devil is always in the details
08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM
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Re: The Devil is always in the details
08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM
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Not really
08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM
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Re: Not really
08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM
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Only to a degree
08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM
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Re: Only to a degree
08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM
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I was into cultural and religious history
08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM
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Re: I was into cultural and religious history
08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM
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Ha!
08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM
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Re: Ha!
08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM
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Since, surprisingly, no one's pointed it out yet, prehistory/=history.
13/04/2010 09:52:19 AM
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Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up.
07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM
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Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM*
08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM
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The spread of peanut butter and jelly.
08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM
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I think two spreads that would be better to eliminate would be marmite and vegemite (sp).
08/04/2010 05:30:26 PM
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The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity.
08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM
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You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM*
08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM
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Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM*
08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM
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I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM*
08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM
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I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM*
08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM
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