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I was into cultural and religious history Larry Send a noteboard - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM
What if black pepper had been an indigenous plant in Europe and/or the Middle East? Not only does that impact a small but important part of medieval trade - the most long-distance one - but it also is of crucial importance to the European discovery journeys of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, and hence to the entire concept of colonialism.


Or what if potatoes or tobacco had not been imported from South America.


Tobacco was from North America/the Caribbean, or at least the specific species that are smoked by most people

Of course, if tobacco was not a cash crop, my family would never have been wealthy in the early 19th century (nor would they have lost most everything between the Panic of 1837 and the Civil War )


Yesyes. Details. I come from Norway. Everywhere that is warm enough for tobacco growing is per definition SOUTH.

And, of course, part of the scenario would have to be that it were never grown by European immigrants either.


It's okay. I always think "up there" for any region where snow lies on the ground more than a handful of days a year, if that much.

And then there's that scenario if Songhai had not been weakened by invasions from the Sahara...


Now you are back on political history.


I consider the social vacuum created by the collapse of a strong polity in the Sahel to be responsible in part for the atrocity known as the transatlantic slave trade. The social upheaval that was unleashed is something that certainly affects hundreds of millions directly and almost as many indirectly today.

That being said, some of my vocabulary would have been different if this hadn't taken place.


But that is the case with most of the political events mentioned in this thread. The interest lies in the social ramifications. The collapse of a major African kingdom is definitely a political event.


Of course, I like to think my old studies, grounded firmly in the late Weimar/pre-WWII Nazi Era, were not political in nature, although that contradictory regime certainly loomed large over everything I was researching about religious programs during that time


I have always preferred political history. I think that is why I did not keep studying it. It became all about fishermen and farmers, and I couldn't care less. I like the wars and revolutions and the intrigues much more than the statistics and boring. In theory social history is good, but in practice it puts me to sleep.


While it draws upon some of the same methodologies as new social history, the areas of research are much more fascinating. Ever read Carlo Ginzburg's The Cheese and the Worms: The Cosmology of a 16th Century Miller? Still one of the best microhistories produced and it dealt with a relatively educated heretic who devised a cosmology that both fit in with his times and ran very counter to it. I had to read that in my freshman honors Western Civ class and that book convinced me that I was in the right field. Also, cultural histories yielded interesting discussions about English wife swaps and "sales," some of which lasted until the late 19th century. How can stuffy political maneuverings top that?
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 712 Views
Myself: World War I. - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 588 Views
I don't think it's that simple. - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 533 Views
I see your point. - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 514 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 485 Views
True. - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 500 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 496 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 475 Views
The Plague - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 466 Views
Re: The Plague - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 373 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 504 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 469 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 464 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 312 Views
...? - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 365 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 334 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 297 Views
The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 541 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 324 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 363 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 383 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 467 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 300 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 332 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 503 Views
precisely. - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 488 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 324 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 319 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 314 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 402 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 422 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 551 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 456 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 472 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 571 Views
I don't know if that's really true... - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 482 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 512 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 194 Views
NOOOO1111 - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 387 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 314 Views
Not in the first two Civs. - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 337 Views
Civ, i love that game... - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 448 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 327 Views
An interesting point - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 490 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 298 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 388 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 325 Views
The spread of Islam - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 492 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 302 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 315 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 469 Views
Fair enough. - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 467 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 445 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 437 Views
Re: The spread of Islam - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 523 Views
Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 298 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 288 Views
Ask yourself the question... - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 301 Views
I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 478 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 348 Views
I'd better not touch this one - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 500 Views
The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 429 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 384 Views
I...do not know. - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 370 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 549 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 289 Views
Nope, not really - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 468 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 308 Views
Yes - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 443 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 340 Views
Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 496 Views
Re: Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 520 Views
The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 457 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 265 Views
Not really - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 427 Views
Re: Not really - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 336 Views
Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 434 Views
Re: Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 547 Views
I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 434 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 332 Views
Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 478 Views
Re: Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 304 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 584 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 353 Views
- 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 446 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 338 Views
I know - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 483 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 351 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 306 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 316 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 403 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 284 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 294 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 324 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 349 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 341 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 476 Views
The Bread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 482 Views
The dead of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 453 Views
The thread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 411 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 446 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 304 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 280 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 287 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 291 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 342 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 285 Views
My parody. - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 430 Views
Re: My parody. - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 501 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 511 Views

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