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Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas Send a noteboard - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM
I would make it not happen.

Rome doesn't resort to tactics which would result in their fall and the dark ages never happen. Europe doesn't go through the intellectual lull it did and religious dogma and irrationality isn't able to take over.

As a result, mankind is much further along today.


Didn't the Plauge happen several hundred years after the fall of Rome? Or am I just being an idiot and not quite getting what your saying?

In some cases, the same diseases were responsible for multiple instances of plague, and it's hard to accurately diagnose each of them hundreds or even thousands of years later. "Plague" killed Pericles and a host of others when Athens was besieged in the Peloponessian War; WHICH plague remains an open question.

I don't agree the Romes plague near the end is what killed it though; overextension and complacency during the Pax are more attractive candidates. Christian unity and the assimilation of so many "barbarian" German tribes kept Rome on life support and hid the decline for at least a century after its peak, but had the Empire been sustainable Constantinople would never have been founded.


The plague that came through Rome crippled its army, killing most of the young Roman soldiers. This eventually forced them to try and assimilate barbarian tribes and resort to the measures that kept it on life support.

Without the plague, Rome's population might have been strong enough to sustain Roman troops and a Roman identity, instead of seeding power to outsiders.

Of course, the reason Rome fell can be debated endlessly. I'm one of those that thinks it was the plague.

Either way, if Rome hadn't fallen like it did, I think we'd be better off by a lot today. But "Have Rome not fall like it did" doesn't sound like a very good reply ;)



What are you talking about? This was how Rome thrived through its glory days: expansion, and delegation of military service. The amount of *actual* Romans from Latinum, and later even from the Italian peninsula serving in the provinces armies was negligible. The main principle of Roman military strategy was: conquer place A, take men and armies from place A and make them serve in place X, while having people from place X guarding place A. Then, after colonizing place A with people from place V, then conquer place B to give land to people from A...and continue in such a fashion to appease everyone. The heart of the empire, Rome, much like America, didn't really grasp the idea of warfare and the hardships that came with it, because the people living there were as far from the borders as possible.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 680 Views
Myself: World War I. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 532 Views
I don't think it's that simple. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 468 Views
I see your point. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 455 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 428 Views
True. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 440 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 432 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 414 Views
Re: True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. snoopcester - 07/04/2010 10:48:49 AM 419 Views
I had a teacher with an interesting theory related to that LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:57:49 AM 315 Views
Well, at this time, it was pretty well accepted that Russia wasn't exactly a techinical power. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:04:35 AM 279 Views
The Plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 407 Views
Re: The Plague LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 313 Views
He must be talking about a different plague, but I'm not sure which one, either. *NM* Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:37:32 AM 290 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 447 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 418 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 411 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 291 Views
...? lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 310 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 322 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 273 Views
OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM 454 Views
The spread of Christianity LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 482 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 304 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 295 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 325 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 420 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 274 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 307 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 452 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 428 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 300 Views
The product of Christian inspiration was heavily Hellenistic in origin... lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:54:12 PM 289 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 297 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 288 Views
Agreed. *NM* Kylia Skydancer - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 371 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 399 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 493 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 402 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 404 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 514 Views
I don't know if that's really true... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 425 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 481 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 174 Views
NOOOO1111 Joel - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 324 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 295 Views
Not in the first two Civs. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 270 Views
Civ, i love that game... MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 391 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 261 Views
An interesting point MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 430 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* ironclad - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 275 Views
It's crazy to think that the human knowledge base doubles every 2 years... lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:49:28 PM 272 Views
Literacy and communication have literally made a world of difference. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:25:45 AM 401 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... moondog - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 338 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 275 Views
The spread of Islam Dragonsoul - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 427 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 283 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 256 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... Legolas - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 419 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 405 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 386 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 370 Views
Re: The spread of Islam Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 468 Views
Haha, are you kidding? Dragonsoul - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 240 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 238 Views
Ask yourself the question... Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 244 Views
I don't see the connection. BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 425 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 294 Views
I'd better not touch this one ßelals Girl - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 444 Views
The spread of Judaism. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 401 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 320 Views
I...do not know. Spriteling - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 316 Views
A lot of times, you change one thing, and everything changes- even the things you don't think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:26:51 PM 286 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines Larry - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 487 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 266 Views
Nope, not really Larry - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 411 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Legolas - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 248 Views
Yes Larry - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 386 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Camilla - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 287 Views
Uh... Larry - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 434 Views
Re: Uh... Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 458 Views
The Devil is always in the details Larry - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 397 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 234 Views
Not really Larry - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 399 Views
Re: Not really Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 273 Views
Only to a degree Larry - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 379 Views
Re: Only to a degree Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 486 Views
I was into cultural and religious history Larry - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 379 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 278 Views
Ha! Larry - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 426 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 248 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... Larry - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 531 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 298 Views
Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 389 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... Legolas - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 270 Views
I know Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 428 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort Larry - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 300 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 279 Views
Since, surprisingly, no one's pointed it out yet, prehistory/=history. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:52:19 AM 375 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* random thoughts - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 293 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. Tigr - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 345 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 258 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* TaskmasterJack - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 272 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? StarrBecca - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 260 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. lyringlas - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 282 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* fistofpainx - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 315 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 414 Views
I think two spreads that would be better to eliminate would be marmite and vegemite (sp). Avendesora - 08/04/2010 05:30:26 PM 381 Views
The Bread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 457 Views
The dead of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 410 Views
The thread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 357 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 390 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 280 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 259 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 265 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 268 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 310 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 260 Views
My parody. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 372 Views
Re: My parody. Camilla - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 434 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final Colonel Logain - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 448 Views
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