Re: Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole
ßelals Girl Send a noteboard - 23/02/2010 07:38:54 PM
and I was just trying to make the point. Change from other cultures is what allows a culture to grow and develop. I do think it is absurd to demand that someone be demanded to become everything the french stereotype demands they be. Who defines what is "french" anyways? The french people, of course. But the French people are no longer solely Western European and they haven't been for a while. Who is anyone to turn to someone who's Muslim of immigrant descent, but has 3 generations of family in France but still holds to their Muslim cultural values, and tell them "You're not French."
They aren't French. They are not culturally French. They are not ethnically French. They live in France, but are not related to the native population (unless they've interbred), and they do not share a culture with the native population. They remain both ethnically and culturally Turkish or whatever nation they've emigrated from.
The idea that because you are born in a certain region, that makes you a full member of the cultural and ethnic group native to the region is flawed. Countries of immigrants, like the US and others, use this to define membership, but old world countries have historically been defined differently. They are cultural/ethnic/lingusitic nations, not just geographic, and therefore the idea of "If you're born here, that makes you fully French/German/Norwegian/Spanish, whatever doesn't work out as well as the same concept in the US. Thus, problems can arise. I think too many Americans are trying to apply our concept of nationality to nations that have a rather different background.
French fast food chain goes halal
19/02/2010 06:34:59 AM
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...how is it "discriminatory?"
19/02/2010 06:49:24 AM
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just as a note
19/02/2010 01:06:30 PM
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(It wasn't a reference to Hinduism)
19/02/2010 05:29:40 PM
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Not necessarily prejudiced or bigots
19/02/2010 12:03:17 PM
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Not sure that works
19/02/2010 12:58:20 PM
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it's not discrimination in the slightest
19/02/2010 01:13:03 PM
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Re: Not sure that works
19/02/2010 01:44:27 PM
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Re: Not sure that works
19/02/2010 02:15:37 PM
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Re: Not sure that works
19/02/2010 02:33:30 PM
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dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination.
19/02/2010 02:40:18 PM
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Re: dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination.
19/02/2010 03:22:14 PM
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...I don't think that's a thing?
19/02/2010 05:31:52 PM
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To the contrary
19/02/2010 07:07:40 PM
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the restaurant does not have 100% halal food.
19/02/2010 07:40:52 PM
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Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US...
19/02/2010 01:23:49 PM
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but what's wrong with eating halal meat?
19/02/2010 01:33:17 PM
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Nothing per se, it's largely symbolic. I'm not sure how large the changes in the menu actually are.
19/02/2010 01:42:54 PM
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Not a theologian, are we?
19/02/2010 02:06:38 PM
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but is it the jews and observant christians complaining?
19/02/2010 02:30:58 PM
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I've no clue
19/02/2010 02:46:53 PM
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why would they be serving pork at a fast food anyways?
19/02/2010 02:53:36 PM
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I checked the standard menu - other than one special burger with bacon, it's true there's no pork. *NM*
19/02/2010 02:55:44 PM
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Well normally bacon is considered pork
19/02/2010 03:07:45 PM
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Dude, it's France. They don't do English breakfasts.
19/02/2010 03:19:48 PM
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American Breakfast, the english stole it from us
19/02/2010 03:36:42 PM
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Not a theologian, are we?
19/02/2010 02:31:17 PM
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from what we discussed in Meat Sciene
19/02/2010 02:35:59 PM
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Re: Not a theologian, are we?
19/02/2010 04:03:41 PM
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Re: Not a theologian, are we?
19/02/2010 04:51:14 PM
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Re: Not a theologian, are we?
19/02/2010 04:54:26 PM
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Re: Not a theologian, are we?
19/02/2010 05:03:28 PM
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Oh, and then there's something else, though I don't know if it's a factor here...
19/02/2010 02:41:46 PM
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Re: Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US...
19/02/2010 01:57:15 PM
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You think the reasons are as objective as that ?
19/02/2010 02:24:36 PM
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Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims.
19/02/2010 02:14:19 PM
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Re: Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims.
19/02/2010 05:02:18 PM
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Are you refering to something specific ?
19/02/2010 07:18:38 PM
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Re: Are you refering to something specific ?
19/02/2010 07:21:35 PM
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In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU.
19/02/2010 07:26:51 PM
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Re: In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU.
19/02/2010 07:30:33 PM
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The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason.
19/02/2010 08:53:44 PM
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Re: The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason.
19/02/2010 08:55:53 PM
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i can't see why it matters that they did. i think it's great. *NM*
19/02/2010 05:23:44 PM
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So, what is the difference between Halal Beef and normal beef? *NM*
19/02/2010 07:06:21 PM
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Call me an obvious bigot and prejudiced then. I think the way they did this is bad.
19/02/2010 07:10:40 PM
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Having two sources of meat would raise prices even more
19/02/2010 07:56:21 PM
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Not to mention the fact that anything served as halal would have to be cooked separately
19/02/2010 10:55:06 PM
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I wonder how teh Saudis or Iranians would react...
19/02/2010 08:51:11 PM
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most halal foods would always qualify as kosher, i believe.
20/02/2010 02:26:49 AM
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So let me get this straight...
20/02/2010 08:42:04 AM
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wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing
20/02/2010 06:28:27 PM
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I think you missed his point
20/02/2010 10:12:18 PM
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There are many answers one could give, but the most basic one is quite simple...
20/02/2010 10:20:14 PM
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And yet having come of their own free will...
20/02/2010 11:11:51 PM
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Way to read half a post. I am impressed.
21/02/2010 12:10:39 AM
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It always starts small.
21/02/2010 12:32:11 AM
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and really... in this case it's a private enterprise we're talking about
21/02/2010 12:55:27 AM
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Re: wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing
20/02/2010 10:13:12 PM
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Yes, i'm sure there is no other restaurant in that whole area.
21/02/2010 02:04:29 AM
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that's not the point.
21/02/2010 08:46:14 AM
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So if your French every restaurant should only be allowed to serve what you want served?
22/02/2010 07:18:00 PM
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I don't think French society should be forced to consume Islamic food.
23/02/2010 01:31:03 AM
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No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
23/02/2010 02:47:56 AM
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Sure they are.
23/02/2010 03:05:12 AM
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well they apparently still have 354 of that particular restaurant
23/02/2010 03:20:07 AM
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Don't you get it?
23/02/2010 03:51:09 AM
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Actually they're not ragheads.
23/02/2010 03:43:14 PM
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If you have a sarcasm meter, you might want to switch it on. *NM*
23/02/2010 05:37:41 PM
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Indeed, 354 throughout the whole of France, which actually isn't that many.
23/02/2010 03:42:30 PM
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So Muslims should be forced to eat French food because the French are lazy to open more restaurants?
23/02/2010 04:43:13 AM
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well don't you see?
23/02/2010 12:41:40 PM
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Re: well don't you see?
23/02/2010 05:02:16 PM
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I agree with you. *NM*
23/02/2010 05:10:53 PM
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This is meant to be an edit...
23/02/2010 05:14:23 PM
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I agree, Bekah, but it's not like there's not a middle ground
23/02/2010 05:25:30 PM
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It's the sheer numbers that are worrisome
23/02/2010 06:25:17 PM
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Very true. Test case: Lebanon
24/02/2010 12:26:43 AM
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Really?
24/02/2010 10:02:18 AM
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Re: This is meant to be an edit...
23/02/2010 05:43:03 PM
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"Propaganda"? Kind of exaggerating there...
23/02/2010 07:48:39 PM
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How is it not propaganda?
23/02/2010 08:31:12 PM
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I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though.
23/02/2010 08:54:54 PM
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Re: I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though.
23/02/2010 09:08:33 PM
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The language really isn't the problem in France.
23/02/2010 08:15:52 PM
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I will conceed that point
23/02/2010 08:53:26 PM
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But a lot of them were already in a part of France or had been born in a part of France
23/02/2010 05:30:24 PM
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It's funny because it's true - Algeria was administratively a part of France, iirc. *NM*
23/02/2010 07:51:17 PM
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Why should you have to completely change who you are?
23/02/2010 05:35:51 PM
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Yes, of course
23/02/2010 05:48:10 PM
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Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole
23/02/2010 07:01:49 PM
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Re: Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole
23/02/2010 07:38:54 PM
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The French didn't seem to feel the need to go native when they were in Middle Eastern countries
23/02/2010 05:55:28 PM
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What are you refering to?
23/02/2010 06:00:45 PM
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Brush up on your history then
23/02/2010 06:25:53 PM
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Thank you
23/02/2010 06:34:19 PM
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I would think that simply having McDonalds there is a greater threat to French cultrue
23/02/2010 06:52:34 PM
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They had Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and for a while Lebanon and Syria.
23/02/2010 08:00:08 PM
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