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Re: The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. lyringlas Send a noteboard - 19/02/2010 08:55:53 PM
So it's not such a fringe movement.


I thought one of the main reasons Turkey was blocked from the EU was the ongoing strife on Cyprus between Greece and Turkey? I haven't been very up to date on my world news recently.


The Cyprus thing is a convenient excuse, but when both France and Germany are openly against Turkish membership, AO is right that it's not necessarily the actual reason, or at least that it's pretty damn convenient.

And really, as far as xenophobia in politics goes, the main difference is that France has a US-like political system that makes it very hard for third parties to get much traction, whereas the Netherlands shares the title of most open political system with Israel - there's exactly one electoral district in the country, and each party gets seats according to its percentage of the vote. Which makes for enormous political volatility - in a country where no party has more than about 30 out of 150 seats, we are talking about parties that lose or gain 15 seats from one election to the next, occasionally more. Pim Fortuyn's party won a massive victory days after his assassination, then was reduced to literally nothing just a few years later. Geert Wilders' party is now the biggest party in the polls, but might lose it all just as fast.


Thanks for giving me a quick recap of, oh, the past 3 years. School blinded me to a lot of things, as I never had time to keep up to date on world news Thanks Lego.
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French fast food chain goes halal Aisha - 19/02/2010 06:34:59 AM 1398 Views
that isn't unusual at all...I don't see the big deal LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 06:42:58 AM 386 Views
...how is it "discriminatory?" beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 06:49:24 AM 855 Views
just as a note LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:06:30 PM 479 Views
(It wasn't a reference to Hinduism) beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 05:29:40 PM 484 Views
yah. that's hinduism LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 05:52:41 PM 504 Views
Makes sense beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 06:12:49 PM 488 Views
Not necessarily prejudiced or bigots Insolitus - 19/02/2010 12:03:17 PM 757 Views
Not sure that works snoopcester - 19/02/2010 12:58:20 PM 543 Views
it's not discrimination in the slightest LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:13:03 PM 667 Views
That was my point snoopcester - 19/02/2010 01:22:55 PM 532 Views
sorry LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:29:11 PM 508 Views
No problem snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:02:46 PM 485 Views
Re: Not sure that works Insolitus - 19/02/2010 01:44:27 PM 528 Views
Re: Not sure that works snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:15:37 PM 644 Views
Re: Not sure that works Insolitus - 19/02/2010 02:33:30 PM 735 Views
dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:40:18 PM 569 Views
Re: dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. Insolitus - 19/02/2010 03:22:14 PM 659 Views
yes, how dare a shop specialize LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 03:44:59 PM 474 Views
Indeed *NM* Insolitus - 19/02/2010 03:53:28 PM 268 Views
...I don't think that's a thing? beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 05:31:52 PM 520 Views
To the contrary Isaac - 19/02/2010 07:07:40 PM 560 Views
the restaurant does not have 100% halal food. LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 07:40:52 PM 503 Views
It was more of an answer to beetnemesis's hypothetical comment Isaac - 19/02/2010 08:18:58 PM 617 Views
I thought that they were still serving fish, at least? *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 02:24:21 AM 346 Views
hahahaha Aisha - 20/02/2010 01:01:07 AM 589 Views
Re: hahahaha Isaac - 20/02/2010 04:10:31 AM 524 Views
Interesting beetnemesis - 20/02/2010 04:01:17 AM 538 Views
Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... Legolas - 19/02/2010 01:23:49 PM 725 Views
but what's wrong with eating halal meat? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:33:17 PM 558 Views
Nothing per se, it's largely symbolic. I'm not sure how large the changes in the menu actually are. Legolas - 19/02/2010 01:42:54 PM 689 Views
Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 02:06:38 PM 637 Views
but is it the jews and observant christians complaining? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:30:58 PM 488 Views
I've no clue Isaac - 19/02/2010 02:46:53 PM 661 Views
why would they be serving pork at a fast food anyways? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:53:36 PM 477 Views
I checked the standard menu - other than one special burger with bacon, it's true there's no pork. *NM* Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:55:44 PM 272 Views
my point is how many fast food places have pork? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 03:06:44 PM 480 Views
Well normally bacon is considered pork Isaac - 19/02/2010 03:07:45 PM 476 Views
Dude, it's France. They don't do English breakfasts. Legolas - 19/02/2010 03:19:48 PM 660 Views
American Breakfast, the english stole it from us Isaac - 19/02/2010 03:36:42 PM 589 Views
They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... Legolas - 19/02/2010 03:48:06 PM 619 Views
Re: They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... Isaac - 19/02/2010 04:16:22 PM 625 Views
Not a theologian, are we? snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:31:17 PM 494 Views
from what we discussed in Meat Sciene LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:35:59 PM 557 Views
Oh? snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:42:57 PM 580 Views
you could probably argue that it is less humane LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:54:32 PM 473 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 04:03:41 PM 714 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 04:51:14 PM 621 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 04:54:26 PM 683 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 05:03:28 PM 453 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 06:10:50 PM 470 Views
Upper tip Isaac - 19/02/2010 06:14:06 PM 416 Views
Re: but what's wrong with eating halal meat? Sareitha Sedai - 19/02/2010 02:33:14 PM 607 Views
+1 The Shrike - 19/02/2010 07:07:36 PM 490 Views
It is a MacDonalds not public service provider random thoughts - 19/02/2010 08:11:36 PM 484 Views
Oh, and then there's something else, though I don't know if it's a factor here... Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:41:46 PM 493 Views
Re: Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... snoopcester - 19/02/2010 01:57:15 PM 623 Views
That's what I was thinking too. Lupine - 19/02/2010 06:04:02 PM 642 Views
You think the reasons are as objective as that ? AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 02:24:36 PM 444 Views
I wouldn't exactly call the reasons I named "objective", myself. Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:37:56 PM 566 Views
Haha, yeah AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:24:00 PM 480 Views
Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 02:14:19 PM 594 Views
Re: Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 05:02:18 PM 505 Views
Are you refering to something specific ? AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:18:38 PM 518 Views
Re: Are you refering to something specific ? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 07:21:35 PM 442 Views
In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:26:51 PM 437 Views
Re: In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 07:30:33 PM 479 Views
The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. Legolas - 19/02/2010 08:53:44 PM 509 Views
Re: The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 08:55:53 PM 565 Views
Why are such politicians automatically "crazy" ßelals Girl - 19/02/2010 10:16:53 PM 598 Views
yep. *NM* AgentOrange - 20/02/2010 12:09:56 PM 243 Views
Really can't see why people would get so worked up random thoughts - 19/02/2010 03:57:37 PM 467 Views
No big deal.. Kel - 19/02/2010 04:16:08 PM 508 Views
i can't see why it matters that they did. i think it's great. *NM* temeraire - 19/02/2010 05:23:44 PM 313 Views
So, what is the difference between Halal Beef and normal beef? *NM* MightyYT - 19/02/2010 07:06:21 PM 234 Views
the way it is killed. *NM* jh - 19/02/2010 07:26:02 PM 341 Views
Call me an obvious bigot and prejudiced then. I think the way they did this is bad. The Shrike - 19/02/2010 07:10:40 PM 536 Views
Having two sources of meat would raise prices even more beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 07:56:21 PM 487 Views
Not to mention the fact that anything served as halal would have to be cooked separately Floffe - 19/02/2010 10:55:06 PM 460 Views
I wonder how teh Saudis or Iranians would react... Dragonsoul - 19/02/2010 08:51:11 PM 490 Views
most halal foods would always qualify as kosher, i believe. LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 02:26:49 AM 429 Views
Nope. But it does work the other way around. *NM* AgentOrange - 20/02/2010 04:50:26 AM 258 Views
fair enough, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 05:56:00 AM 393 Views
yupp, kosher counts as halal, halal is not kosher though *NM* Aisha - 20/02/2010 12:55:30 PM 351 Views
So let me get this straight... Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 08:42:04 AM 617 Views
wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 06:28:27 PM 608 Views
I think you missed his point beckstcw - 20/02/2010 10:12:18 PM 494 Views
There are many answers one could give, but the most basic one is quite simple... Legolas - 20/02/2010 10:20:14 PM 618 Views
And yet having come of their own free will... Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 11:11:51 PM 469 Views
Way to read half a post. I am impressed. jh - 21/02/2010 12:10:39 AM 488 Views
It always starts small. Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 12:32:11 AM 462 Views
Awesome, you figured out their master plan!! LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:06:27 AM 548 Views
Like I said... Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 08:43:32 AM 501 Views
and really... in this case it's a private enterprise we're talking about AgentOrange - 21/02/2010 12:55:27 AM 456 Views
exactly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:06:57 AM 371 Views
Oh I know, don't get me wrong. I was trying to clarify *NM* beckstcw - 21/02/2010 04:13:19 AM 297 Views
I didn't miss it, I just thought it wasn't worth noting. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:11:14 AM 698 Views
Re: wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 10:13:12 PM 662 Views
Yes, i'm sure there is no other restaurant in that whole area. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:04:29 AM 623 Views
that's not the point. Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 08:46:14 AM 530 Views
dude. your 'THEY" did not do anything. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 03:01:48 PM 583 Views
So if your French every restaurant should only be allowed to serve what you want served? random thoughts - 22/02/2010 07:18:00 PM 459 Views
I don't think French society should be forced to consume Islamic food. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 01:31:03 AM 478 Views
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 02:47:56 AM 510 Views
Sure they are. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:05:12 AM 520 Views
well they apparently still have 354 of that particular restaurant LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 03:20:07 AM 477 Views
Don't you get it? LiterateDog - 23/02/2010 03:51:09 AM 463 Views
Actually they're not ragheads. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:43:14 PM 440 Views
If you have a sarcasm meter, you might want to switch it on. *NM* LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:37:41 PM 233 Views
Indeed, 354 throughout the whole of France, which actually isn't that many. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:42:30 PM 496 Views
how many French people starved to death before McDonalds opened? random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:30:32 PM 499 Views
Millions Isaac - 23/02/2010 04:41:23 PM 469 Views
Huh. Sareitha Sedai - 23/02/2010 06:10:17 PM 473 Views
They are not forced to do anything snoopcester - 23/02/2010 04:41:35 PM 454 Views
So Muslims should be forced to eat French food because the French are lazy to open more restaurants? random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:43:13 AM 419 Views
well don't you see? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 12:41:40 PM 505 Views
Re: well don't you see? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:02:16 PM 462 Views
I agree with you. *NM* Rebekah - 23/02/2010 05:10:53 PM 222 Views
This is meant to be an edit... Rebekah - 23/02/2010 05:14:23 PM 505 Views
I agree, Bekah, but it's not like there's not a middle ground LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:25:30 PM 465 Views
It's the sheer numbers that are worrisome ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:25:17 PM 592 Views
That assumes a great deal LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 06:52:41 PM 597 Views
Re: That assumes a great deal ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:00:28 PM 616 Views
Very true. Test case: Lebanon AgentOrange - 24/02/2010 12:26:43 AM 457 Views
Really? snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:02:18 AM 457 Views
What he's referring to... Legolas - 24/02/2010 10:20:22 AM 611 Views
Oh that, that I knew with the political system snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:57:08 AM 451 Views
Re: This is meant to be an edit... ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:43:03 PM 658 Views
Well, biologically speaking, it is healthier for the gene pool. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 06:55:11 PM 482 Views
"Propaganda"? Kind of exaggerating there... Legolas - 23/02/2010 07:48:39 PM 571 Views
How is it not propaganda? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:31:12 PM 643 Views
I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 08:54:54 PM 489 Views
Re: I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 09:08:33 PM 883 Views
your view point is idealistic, I think LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:24:08 PM 746 Views
I guess one would have to see the documentary to really judge. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:58:47 PM 591 Views
The language really isn't the problem in France. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:15:52 PM 615 Views
I will conceed that point ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:53:26 PM 591 Views
Oh yeah, definitely, re: your point about Americans *NM* Legolas - 23/02/2010 09:00:20 PM 251 Views
Our differing opinion does not make us wrong. or that you are. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:07:38 PM 626 Views
I'm not dismissing the problem entirely. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:03:50 PM 601 Views
Well. I wasn't necessarily specifying France. *NM* Rebekah - 23/02/2010 09:48:44 PM 229 Views
But a lot of them were already in a part of France or had been born in a part of France snoopcester - 23/02/2010 05:30:24 PM 511 Views
*gasp* There are no French Muslims!! LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:36:38 PM 608 Views
Or! snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:04:44 AM 691 Views
It's funny because it's true - Algeria was administratively a part of France, iirc. *NM* Legolas - 23/02/2010 07:51:17 PM 204 Views
It does make the situation more complicated snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:30:28 AM 518 Views
Why should you have to completely change who you are? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:35:51 PM 467 Views
Yes, of course ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:48:10 PM 448 Views
Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:01:49 PM 457 Views
Re: Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 07:38:54 PM 590 Views
So they should be treated as less because they're immigrants? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:45:16 PM 539 Views
They're not Turks, they're mostly from France's old colonies. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:10:25 PM 450 Views
The French didn't seem to feel the need to go native when they were in Middle Eastern countries random thoughts - 23/02/2010 05:55:28 PM 686 Views
What are you refering to? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:00:45 PM 475 Views
Brush up on your history then random thoughts - 23/02/2010 06:25:53 PM 509 Views
Thank you ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:34:19 PM 463 Views
I would think that simply having McDonalds there is a greater threat to French cultrue random thoughts - 23/02/2010 06:52:34 PM 595 Views
This. well stated. *NM* LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:03:47 PM 238 Views
Why thank you *NM* random thoughts - 23/02/2010 11:49:22 PM 237 Views
They had Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and for a while Lebanon and Syria. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:00:08 PM 688 Views
Many? Floffe - 23/02/2010 07:40:06 AM 512 Views
sorry I thought it was a restaurant random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:41:39 AM 470 Views
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