Active Users:546 Time:05/04/2025 07:59:48 PM
The Heritage Foundation, huh? Joel Send a noteboard - 03/09/2009 03:01:17 PM
Lots of charts based on government data to click on, via the link.....but as for the question of the rich paying a greater portion of incomes taxes after the Bush cuts:

Myth #10: The Bush tax cuts were tilted toward the rich.
Fact: The rich are now shouldering even more of the income tax burden.

Popular mythology also suggests that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts shifted more of the tax burden toward the poor. While high-income households did save more in actual dollars than low-income households, they did so because low-income house­holds pay so little in income taxes in the first place. The same 1 percent tax cut will save more dollars for a millionaire than it will for a middle-class worker simply because the millionaire paid more taxes before the tax cut.

In 2000, the top 60 percent of taxpayers paid 100 percent of all income taxes. The bottom 40 percent collectively paid no income taxes. Lawmakers writing the 2001 tax cuts faced quite a challenge in giving the bulk of the income tax savings to a population that was already paying no income taxes.

Rather than exclude these Americans, lawmak­ers used the tax code to subsidize them. (Some economists would say this made that group's col­lective tax burden negative.)First, lawmakers low­ered the initial tax brackets from 15 percent to 10 percent and then expanded the refundable child tax credit, which, along with the refundable earned income tax credit (EITC), reduced the typical low-income tax burden to well below zero. As a result, the U.S. Treasury now mails tax "refunds" to a large proportion of these Americans that exceed the amounts of tax that they actually paid. All in all, the number of tax filers with zero or negative income tax liability rose from 30 million to 40 million, or about 30 percent of all tax filers.[17] The remaining 70 percent of tax filers received lower income tax rates, lower investment taxes, and lower estate taxes from the 2001 legislation.

Consequently, from 2000 to 2004, the share of all individual income taxes paid by the bottom 40 per­cent dropped from zero percent to –4 percent, mean­ing that the average family in those quintiles received a subsidy from the IRS. (See Chart 6.) By contrast, the share paid by the top quintile of households (by income) increased from 81 percent to 85 percent.

Expanding the data to include all federal taxes, the share paid by the top quintile edged up from 66.6 percent in 2000 to 67.1 percent in 2004, while the bottom 40 percent's share dipped from 5.9 per­cent to 5.4 percent. Clearly, the tax cuts have led to the rich shouldering more of the income tax burden and the poor shouldering less.[18 ]

I liked Myth #9 better:

"Myth #9: The Bush tax cuts have not helped the economy.
Fact: The economy responded strongly to the 2003 tax cuts. "

That explains the multiple recessions. One wonders why, given the great successes of Bushs tax policy so well documented by the ever objective Heritage Foundation, the economy got Obama elected. Myth #7 is good, too, in conjunction with the quotation of #10:

Myth #7: Reversing the upper-income tax cuts would raise substantial revenues.
Fact: The low-income tax cuts reduced revenues the most.

Makes sense; since, as you note, those people aren't paying taxes anyway, obviously tax cuts for them reduced revenue the most. Those rebate checks referenced above were not, unlike the accelerated reduction in upper class taxes, annual affairs; there was one when the changes were made in Bushs first term and a later one as a part of his stimulus package. As opposed to being the gift that keeps on giving through 2011, I believe it is. As someone who managed to collect the EIC in 2004 but made FAR too much last year I can tell you that 1) it's never going to suck billions from revenue; the most you can get out of is around $350, last I checked and 2) because, again, last I checked, the most you can earn and still qualify for it is $15,000 we're never going to get a lot revenue from people collecting it anyway. Which is also why changing their tax rate from 15% to 10% is rather revenue neutral; 10% of 0 is still 0.

I'm very sorry, but what the Heritage Foundation unsurprisingly seems to be saying isn't "we need to cut taxes" but "we need to raise taxes on the poor so we can cut taxes on the rich. " I won't put words in your mouth (though you did quote them) but I still maintain that's not only absurd, but abusive. I am terribly sorry, however, that old commie George Bush insisted on expanding the tax credit for the working poors children; perhaps if Republican wins in 2012 he can provide a more Swiftian solution....

The working poor aren't the reason your taxes are so high, the non-working wealthy are, and part of the problem here seems to be you can't decide if you're among their numbers or among the middle class, which affects what kind of tax policy you prefer. Lemme help you out: As long as you have to show up for work every day to put food on your table, you're not one of them.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
For Europeans who don't understand why Americans are against ObamaCare - 03/09/2009 04:24:35 AM 1229 Views
I'd be happy to tax top "earners" more and suffer Europes economic "collapse. " - 03/09/2009 04:30:31 AM 699 Views
The US will never work with socialism. - 03/09/2009 04:40:21 AM 771 Views
Re: The US will never work with socialism. - 03/09/2009 04:58:47 AM 758 Views
I don't think the mistrust of the government is really all that overblown - 03/09/2009 05:04:34 AM 688 Views
It's advanced beyond what it was during the Revolution, I think. - 03/09/2009 05:18:22 AM 727 Views
I would say it's grown with the government - 03/09/2009 05:23:52 AM 709 Views
Re: I don't think the mistrust of the government is really all that overblown - 04/09/2009 03:30:23 AM 656 Views
If I lived in France I wouldn't trust the Government either. - 04/09/2009 03:44:55 AM 720 Views
*laughs* the point is taken. *NM* - 04/09/2009 04:24:07 AM 464 Views
Re: The US will never work with socialism. - 04/09/2009 03:28:24 AM 815 Views
How much more can we really tax the wealthy?? - 03/09/2009 04:41:14 AM 615 Views
Sadly, I think going back to the Clinton rates would help - 03/09/2009 04:42:54 AM 594 Views
I'm ok with that....not super excited....but ok with it - 03/09/2009 04:57:32 AM 610 Views
A lot; before Reagans "reforms" we already taxed them less than any other industrialized state did. - 03/09/2009 05:06:00 AM 730 Views
I'm in the lower-middle class tax bracket - 03/09/2009 05:13:39 AM 658 Views
It's both, IMHO. - 03/09/2009 05:29:41 AM 573 Views
I hear a lot of socialism coming from you..... - 03/09/2009 05:19:08 AM 593 Views
Re: I hear a lot of socialism coming from you..... - 03/09/2009 05:40:32 AM 680 Views
Nice non-answer answer..... - 03/09/2009 05:52:04 AM 692 Views
You want detailed answers that require detailed data I don't have. - 03/09/2009 06:06:55 AM 742 Views
Here are some facts and analyses..... - 03/09/2009 02:40:22 PM 780 Views
The Heritage Foundation, huh? - 03/09/2009 03:01:17 PM 799 Views
The non-working wealthy? Please quantify..... - 03/09/2009 03:31:58 PM 764 Views
Paris Hilton? - 04/09/2009 03:43:19 AM 672 Views
You're so full of shit on this issue I don't know where to begin. - 04/09/2009 03:15:55 AM 778 Views
Re: You're so full of shit on this issue I don't know where to begin. - 04/09/2009 03:59:21 AM 864 Views
Less than 200 people were said to be US persons with Swiss accounts - 04/09/2009 04:16:24 AM 656 Views
And yet account for many millions of dollars; what does that say...? - 04/09/2009 04:21:57 AM 655 Views
It's statistically insignificant and your hyperbole is reminiscent of screaming guests on CNN. - 04/09/2009 02:07:31 PM 595 Views
Well, look at this way: - 04/09/2009 02:24:03 PM 721 Views
That's not a solution. - 05/09/2009 02:39:12 AM 730 Views
The Soviets weren't socialist, or even communist, so it's a false comparison. - 05/09/2009 03:09:06 AM 671 Views
Okay, now you've just gone into Kool-aid drinking territory. - 05/09/2009 04:32:07 AM 793 Views
Communist THEORY is predicated on democratic participation at every level,totally absent in the USSR - 05/09/2009 04:55:00 AM 910 Views
FINALLY!!! - 07/09/2009 10:22:53 AM 707 Views
Ever heard of the 20-80 rule? - 04/09/2009 04:28:54 AM 589 Views
Yes, and 90% of people are idiots. - 05/09/2009 02:41:35 AM 895 Views
Re: Yes, and 90% of people are idiots. - 07/09/2009 10:09:30 AM 711 Views
Top earners? Please define.....what income and how much more? *NM* - 03/09/2009 04:52:25 AM 454 Views
That would be open to definition, and should change with inflation. - 03/09/2009 05:13:02 AM 845 Views
What is your justification for taking over 50% of anyone's income? - 03/09/2009 05:28:22 AM 783 Views
That's a good example of why I say the rate has to be set to cost of living. - 03/09/2009 05:50:16 AM 808 Views
Still no comment on the fact that 40% of Americans don't pay any income taxes? - 03/09/2009 02:32:12 PM 726 Views
To what 40% do you refer? - 03/09/2009 02:42:55 PM 587 Views
Dude, you are not making this easy..... - 03/09/2009 03:38:01 PM 629 Views
No one "gets money from the IRS. " - 04/09/2009 02:55:02 AM 634 Views
Actually with EIC you can get money back that you never paid in. - 04/09/2009 02:56:43 AM 624 Views
It MIGHT be possible with the EIC, but in practice few people get more than they paid. - 04/09/2009 03:43:36 AM 670 Views
I don't know, I've known plenty of people that have gotten more back than they paid in - 04/09/2009 03:46:29 AM 754 Views
A neat trick then. - 04/09/2009 04:09:58 AM 751 Views
To be fair - 04/09/2009 04:50:20 AM 691 Views
Ah, gotcha. - 04/09/2009 04:53:58 AM 703 Views
Yet another example of your ignorance on tax policy. - 04/09/2009 03:19:39 AM 577 Views
The word I notice is "welfare" - 04/09/2009 03:57:01 AM 692 Views
I wouldn't say that's what it means.... - 04/09/2009 04:02:40 AM 698 Views
It's what welfare means to me... - 04/09/2009 04:32:17 AM 709 Views
I was just talking about EIC as a form of welfare, not welfare welfare. *NM* - 04/09/2009 04:45:13 AM 410 Views
yes, I get that now. *NM* - 04/09/2009 05:02:53 AM 395 Views
*NM* - 04/09/2009 05:14:01 AM 391 Views
Not necessarily - 04/09/2009 04:11:41 AM 624 Views
*shrugs* I have a soft heart. *NM* - 04/09/2009 04:30:52 AM 403 Views
It's a credit for people who file a return on income that's been taxed. - 04/09/2009 04:19:57 AM 633 Views
It is only for the WORKING poor, yes. - 04/09/2009 02:12:55 PM 617 Views
Mean it may be, but hardly illegal. - 04/09/2009 02:31:16 PM 649 Views
How does the business benefit? - 04/09/2009 04:54:27 PM 650 Views
I didn't realize you meant literal withholding. - 05/09/2009 03:03:32 AM 667 Views
That's a no-no, Joel - 03/09/2009 07:32:03 AM 627 Views
Europe impresses me for one simple reason: - 03/09/2009 09:21:28 AM 682 Views
No real comments, just 100% agree with you....plus the $12 trillion is terrifying to me. *NM* - 03/09/2009 04:33:39 AM 297 Views
If that scares you, check this out! - 03/09/2009 04:48:56 AM 759 Views
Excellent post - the US government is not capable of running HC..... - 03/09/2009 04:40:19 AM 573 Views
There is one thing the government did right - 03/09/2009 04:41:36 AM 685 Views
The bailout, some of it, was necessary..... - 03/09/2009 04:51:03 AM 680 Views
I still think it was too one sided. - 03/09/2009 05:21:45 AM 721 Views
It depends on your level of cynicism - 03/09/2009 05:38:53 AM 743 Views
when have they ever cut the fat? - 03/09/2009 08:35:36 PM 669 Views
Contrary to popular belief, they are quite good at it - 03/09/2009 09:05:15 PM 700 Views
Well there is only one catch *NM* - 03/09/2009 10:56:00 PM 389 Views
This doesn't make sense to me. - 03/09/2009 08:33:18 AM 677 Views
The key phrase is "should be. " - 03/09/2009 09:38:15 AM 842 Views
Re: The key phrase is "should be. " - 03/09/2009 09:47:39 AM 715 Views
That sounds like a good stop gap to me. - 03/09/2009 09:50:57 AM 741 Views
In fairness, most Europeans don't seem to realize what ObamaCare is. - 03/09/2009 02:34:01 PM 719 Views
What makes you think we do? - 03/09/2009 09:11:06 PM 734 Views
Oh, you don't either. I thought that went without saying. *NM* - 03/09/2009 09:25:54 PM 404 Views
As far as most people I know are concerned, opposition to ObamaCare isn't the issue. - 03/09/2009 11:04:36 PM 815 Views
It's hard not to be horrified with a government as wasteful as ours - 03/09/2009 11:24:59 PM 591 Views
I can understand horror of governments. - 03/09/2009 11:30:23 PM 593 Views
a bit, yes. *NM* - 04/09/2009 04:08:37 AM 420 Views
For Americans who don't understand why Canadians like their public healthcare. - 04/09/2009 04:23:11 AM 698 Views
Correction - 04/09/2009 04:44:32 AM 697 Views
Re: Correction - 04/09/2009 05:05:11 AM 771 Views
In all honesty.... - 04/09/2009 05:18:23 AM 645 Views
Re: In all honesty.... - 04/09/2009 07:19:28 AM 731 Views
Re: Correction - 04/09/2009 05:24:49 PM 658 Views
Re: Correction - 07/09/2009 10:11:45 AM 848 Views
That's a nice theory. - 04/09/2009 02:49:34 PM 706 Views
It's a fact - 04/09/2009 05:21:59 PM 699 Views
Re: It's a fact - 05/09/2009 03:18:39 AM 659 Views

Reply to Message