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That does not mean his bare plurality was an endorsement of National Healthcare Isaac Send a noteboard - 04/02/2010 02:09:32 PM
That his wife spent her legal career battling insurance companies and knew all their tricks was a big reason for chants of "two for the price of one" and that had a lot more than nepotism to do with her writing the Presidential healthcare plan (back then Presidents took an active hand in legislation they considered a priority. ;))


Two for the price of one was not a chant that was winning back Reagan Democrats and indies. I'm not even sure if he won many of those back. 43%, that's what he got. When the clear majority of voters do not vote for you, you may be the legitimate POTUS, but it doens't mean you have a mandate for your policies.

It wasn't the sole issue for Obama, but as support for Iraq waned among Republicans while Bush belatedly and tacitly conceded McCain was right we should go loaded for bear or not at all (with the effect one might expect, though he still didn't commit as much as McCain and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wanted in '03) healthcare along with the economy in general increasingly became the impetus of his campaign. Make no mistake, the already high and still rising cost of healthcare is very much an economic issue, and the tax and deficit hit we'll take addressing that pales in comparison to allowing healthcare to consume ever larger chunks of our GDP.


No one on the right doesn't think it's an issue, but many of us do believe that the majority of the price increase simply represents all the new options available to keep the average person alive longer and the ill person from premature death. The abuses, well, those do need to be dealt with but the problem with this bill is it didn't address the one nearest and dearest to the GOP and right next to the Dem's campaign coffers - tort reform. Reid, Pelosi, and Obama botched it. There was a mandate for reform, but that didn't mean 'their reform', and nobody trusted a bill that couldn't get a single GOP vote, well, one out of the house who then said no to the senate bill. Lot of complaints about the Bush Tax cuts, the wars, and Patriot, but lots of democrat votes for all of them. Bipartisan doens't mean an equal number, it means convincing around a quarter to half of the other side to come on board. 60 votes or not, everyone noticed the utter absence of even tentative support from any GOP. On something new and untested, people want to know that the opposition at least thinks it might be viable.

If you think being "not Bush" was enough to win an election you need to flash back to '04, when a month before the election Bush finished behind "another candidate" in one poll and behind "ANYONE else" in another.


When a poll says Bush lost and he picks up 50.7%, the most a POTUS has gotten since his father was elected, it's more an indicator that the poll was wrong. ;)

Kerry still lost, hence my joke that he finished fourth in a two man race. He didn't give anyone anything to vote FOR, and that made whoever could sling the most mud the favorite (always bet on Karl Rove under those conditions. ) As for Clinton, yes, Perots 20% of the vote hurt Bush, but if Clintons 43% wasn't a mandate for universal healthcare, does that mean Lincolns 40% wasn't a mandate for union? It's no different than the Deaniacs who played spoiler for Kerry, or the Naderites who sank Gore (who lost NH and the Presidency by <7000 votes, while Nader polled >3X that) or the McCarthy supporters who stayed home rather than vote for Humphrey. Heck, neither Bush NOR Gore hit 50% in 2000, so 43% in a race where a third party polls 20% nationally is a mandate. Obama was generally recognized to have a "mandate for change" but even with Omahas lone EV he was still 5 short of Clintons '92 total.

I hate to play the age card, but I probably do remember that election a little better; it was the first one I voted in and universal healthcare (which is definitely a kind of reform, but Dems back then had the balls to try to actually make a difference) was a top priority in my memory. It's been a Democratic platform plank since the end of the Second World War, but to our cost we failed to achieve it while the rest of the West succeeded, and as long as we continue to ignore it we'll continue seeing our living standard slip relative to theirs. Don't doubt for a second that was a driving force for both Clintons in '92; the difference now is that by ignoring the problem and demonizing evil trial lawyers like Hillary the problem has reached the level of a crisis in the interim. It's not going to get better if we keep ignoring it; that's not how crises work.


It isn't hard to demonize trial lawyers, look at Edwards. Anyway, our standard of living doesn't slip by saying 'relative to theirs' because theirs is still lower, and ours has continued to rise, unless you start using funky math to come up with the SoL. The only solid ways to get it are to compare GDP/capita and average lifespan, a lot of those SoL's people produce include weird and bizarre standards with little room for objective analysis. I've even seen people try to get 'percentage of land devoted to parks' in there, which is a legitimate effect, but not realistically measurable, the sort of thing people just cram in there. Has SoL risen, relative to the US's? Sure, yeah, Thank God, not hard to raise your standard of living when you're coming out of a disatrous war that took over a generation to repair and half the land was under communist rule. Now, when some country of comparable size (not Lichtenstein) actually exceeeds our SoL on an objective and not entirely short term basis, sure, then you can compare. Trying to compare and contrast with others when you're number one tends to be an exercise in futility.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Who's to say YOU really know what's happening in Washington, though? - 02/02/2010 01:41:20 AM 614 Views
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Note that I didn't mention Fox (or anyone, for that matter. ) - 05/02/2010 07:13:31 PM 483 Views
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Universal healthcare was the primary plank in Clintons '92 platform. - 04/02/2010 10:02:18 AM 444 Views
That does not mean his bare plurality was an endorsement of National Healthcare - 04/02/2010 02:09:32 PM 573 Views
I don't think he won by default, and that was his primary issue. - 05/02/2010 08:09:50 AM 575 Views
Re: I don't think he won by default, and that was his primary issue. - 05/02/2010 03:52:23 PM 534 Views
[insert witty subject line here] - 06/02/2010 02:15:21 AM 569 Views
Let me break this into multiple replies here - 06/02/2010 07:45:36 PM 546 Views
'K - 08/02/2010 01:22:12 PM 533 Views
Probably time to go into 'summary mode' - 08/02/2010 07:34:55 PM 560 Views
Again, we're back to "how would you prefer to do it?" - 09/02/2010 09:42:51 AM 590 Views
Any way that works, which currently probably is none - 09/02/2010 06:12:41 PM 527 Views
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Sorry for the delay... - 12/02/2010 11:40:21 PM 646 Views
NP, life happens. - 15/02/2010 02:06:55 PM 656 Views
I'll play a bigger age card since it was my third election to vote in and he won because of Perot - 05/02/2010 05:57:04 PM 467 Views
Let's put it another way: Why did Dems nominate him instead of, say, Gephardt? - 06/02/2010 02:22:04 AM 534 Views
you don't get mandates from primaries - 08/02/2010 02:12:29 PM 434 Views
No, but end of the day more people wanted healthcare than didn't. - 08/02/2010 03:09:31 PM 450 Views
everyone want health care they just don't want congress runnig it - 09/02/2010 04:56:44 AM 488 Views
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you're making a good job taking things out of context, Joel - 03/02/2010 12:47:57 PM 433 Views
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Maybe; Billy Mitchell might debate that were he alive. - 05/02/2010 05:34:54 AM 573 Views
Wow - that was a dumb statement even for you! - 05/02/2010 04:22:59 PM 640 Views
Some information and a question - 02/03/2010 05:49:20 AM 979 Views
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I agree they are obstructing the libs from doing whatever they want - 08/02/2010 02:19:13 PM 341 Views
They've tried including Republicans in drafting bills. - 08/02/2010 03:08:17 PM 498 Views
tyring to pcik off one republican is not including republicans - 09/02/2010 05:03:44 AM 449 Views
Um... sorry, man.... - 10/02/2010 11:06:22 AM 607 Views

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